Employment Tribunal - Respondent not submitted documents...

[fallenangel78]

Hi,

 

I hope somebody can help me, I've posted on here previously and got some great feedback so hoping some of you can share your wisdom again

 

Basically, the deadline for submitting documentation for both myself and the respondent for an Employment Tribunal was 30th March. I submitted mine on time (via my solicitors) but it dawned on me this morning that I still hadn't received anything from the respondent.

 

I contacted my solicitors (which have been pretty useless so far I have to say) and they basically said "Oh, yeah - hadn't thought about that" and that they would contact the respondent directly to ask what the hold up was.

 

My point to them was that surely we should be notifying the Tribunal that they have failed to meet the deadline (they missed the deadline for the submission of the ET3 form but were allowed a late submission) as I know that on the case management orders it states:

 

"These orders are mde under the provision of rule 10 of the Employment Tribunals Rules of Procedure 2004. The timetable above is part of these Orders and it must be complied with. A claimant or a respondent who fails to comply with these Orders may be liable to having the whole or any part of its case stuck out and/or to costs and/or (in the case of failure to disclose a document) to a fine not exceeding £1,000."

 

They have basically told me that we should not notify the Tribunal and should try and deal directly with the respondent which just seems crazy to me - surely we should be flagging this up, even if it's just copying in the Tribunal on the letter to the respondent???

 

Can anyone advise at all?

 

Thanks

[greendollar]

Hi ,

 

Try not to get to stressed out about respondants failure to comply with the Tribunals Orders and deadlines , the Tribunal will do next to nothing to enforce them anyway .

[elpulpo]

Are your solicitors going to be representing you at the tribunal hearing?

Have you engaged them yourselves or have they been appointed by, say, an insurance company or union?

This seems to be an almost standard trick by respondants, ignore the instructions of the ET and then plonk a bundle the size of yellow pages in front of you on the day. You need to push this. If the solicitors aren't actually representing you in the ET you need to take control, either they chase the R and get the bundle or they contact the ET. As GD said, even the ET can be apathetic. But this isn't fair. If the solicitor won't pull their weight, tell 'em to get stuffed.

[fallenangel78]

Hi,

 

The solicitors have been appointed through the legal cover on my home insurance so I didn't have a say who was chosen, it was just the firm they use as standard.

 

They've told me that they're going to chase the respondent today but that they catagorically won't be telling the ET that they've missed another deadline. Had I not called the solicitors this morning to point out the fact that we were now 6 days over the deadline with no response they would have done nothing.

 

On the basis the respondent has had 2 deadlines so far and has failed to meet either of them I just can't understand why the solicitors wouldn't want the ET to be made aware of this as it has no negative effect from my point of view?

 

So far they have been next to useless, no real guidance on my statement of loss (I had to find my own template and get everything together myself and had to put my foot down with them when they suggested I - not they - ask for an extension so they could get their act together).

 

I am in the middle of putting together the first draft of my witness statement and am having to do this from a template I have found on the internet because they haven't provided anything.

 

With regards to whether they'll be representing me at the hearing, I haven't asked the question directly as I just assumed this would be standard, is that not the case (and if not, thanks so much for flagging it up for me).

 

Many thanks for your help on this, it's very much appreciated

[MONX]

To be brutally honest with you, it doesnt sound as if you need the "help" from your solicitors.

 

It is not up to you to remind the respondant that they have missed their second deadline.

 

You certainly sound competent enough to represent yourself at the tribunal itself and I understand that tribunal judges give quite a bit of leeway to "litigent in person" representing themselves.

 

I would kick the solicitors into touch, contact the ET and explain that the respondant has missed thier deadline and you are concerned that this will disadvantage you if they provide reams of information too late in the process.

 

It sounds as if your solicitiors are hoping that the respondant will make an offer and they would feel more comfortable negotiating that rather then representing you in a tribunal, it may be because they lack the experience but you shouldnt let that put you to a disadvantage.

 

I am a complete novice on this and am preparing to represent my partner at his tribunal and I have done it all myself so far. Although I would really like the support of legal representation that is more knowledgable in employment law but i am not covered by insurance and cannot afford to pay for it ourselves so necessity has been the driving force for us.

 

From what you have posted you are more than capable of dealing with this. At least you will know it will be done properly.

[elpulpo]

Just because the solicitors have been appointed by the insurance company shouldn't mean that their responsibility towards you is any less. You're their client, and they should follow your instructions.

I think you need to write to them, setting out your issues. Explain that you're not happy with the level of representation you've been given, and unless they buck their ideas up there'll be bother. When you first instructed them were you given any information as to what to do/who to speak to if you have a complaint?

[davuck]

I think that the employment tribunal needs to know that their failure to disclose is predicucing your case ( remember the et do not know this yet ) get your solicitor to ask for a court order for them to disclose.

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hello

I am involved in an employment tribunal - and it does seem to be the case that I have been advised that the respondent has agreed to settle half hour before the case is due to be heard. I do find this remarkable

 

My friend was involved in proceedings last year (which never made it to court) she too had the problem of the respondent not submitting and having to be chased.

 

I know that the solicitors employed via insurance policies always seem to be from a panel of not the most dynamic. I have insurance through my home insurance for legal expense but I am having trouble acitvating this - I am due to submit the rest of my reasons for my case following the case management discussion which is due to be submitted by 28th April and the insurance have still not rang me back so I have no legal representation - meanwhile my ex employer is sending barristers and solicitors!

 

I am wondering is it worth going to one of these law clinics

 

Would anyone be able to advise how much your house insurance is likely to go up after you have made a claim for legal expenses as everyone is telling me not to do it!

 

 

I know that a lot of people represent themselves but Im worried I will get torn to shreds

Thanks

[elpulpo]

Start a new thread. Mods, Mods!

[Bunty Rothsay]

sorry elplupo Im new to all this and really rubbish and dont know what mods means - sorry

[elpulpo]

I'm just calling to the moderators (blessed souls, do such good work. i love them unconditionally), to provide you with a new thread, my dear.

So we might scrutinise you.

Scrutinise, ooooooooooohh. Now there's a word.

Lithium. there's another.

[jtors65]

hi bunty, did you have any luck with your legal insurance cover so far?

 

Hello

I am involved in an employment tribunal - and it does seem to be the case that I have been advised that the respondent has agreed to settle half hour before the case is due to be heard. I do find this remarkable

 

My friend was involved in proceedings last year (which never made it to court) she too had the problem of the respondent not submitting and having to be chased.

 

I know that the solicitors employed via insurance policies always seem to be from a panel of not the most dynamic. I have insurance through my home insurance for legal expense but I am having trouble acitvating this - I am due to submit the rest of my reasons for my case following the case management discussion which is due to be submitted by 28th April and the insurance have still not rang me back so I have no legal representation - meanwhile my ex employer is sending barristers and solicitors!

 

I am wondering is it worth going to one of these law clinics

 

Would anyone be able to advise how much your house insurance is likely to go up after you have made a claim for legal expenses as everyone is telling me not to do it!

 

 

I know that a lot of people represent themselves but Im worried I will get torn to shreds

Thanks

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi

no I didnt. Basically the househould legal insurance was part of another policy (the main policy for hte house) - which woul dhave been fine except for the fact that they chose to ignore me at every turn! From me asking for legal advice over the phone and them taking all my details every time I rang but no one ringing me back- then saying they had never spoken to me to my main insurer. My main insurance company contacting them (this is the only time they acknowledged me). To me having to send everything by recorded delivery otherwise they would say they had not received it (despite it being emailed as well)

The company were called family plus and I would not recommend them to ANYONE.

they were rude when I rang them up in a state of distress telling them that my case was imminent yet it was taking them so long to decide if I was eligible (despite my solicitor having written to them in April advising of my case and what chances he thought I had) - and then some 2 months after all the correspondence om them making a decision to support the case they declined!

I believe that household legal insurance will lbe the new thing that people will be claiming they were mis sold as I just got is as part of my policy and it was never explained and the amount of distress it has caused me in addition to the case has been awful!

B:mad2:

[Bunty Rothsay]

I would say to anyone that is thinking of using their household legal to get the claim in ASAP as I believe they dither purposely as they dont want to pay out on your claim or support it. I dont consider that the panel solicitors provided by the insurance company are necessarily the best and I found with mine that the were 'very busy' hence they never rang me back once! Which was very distressing. However I have just renewed my household insurance and taken legal protection again as I think I would know what to do in future situations! But basically they are all claims averse!

I have known people who have gone with no win no fee solicitors - who basically cannot be bothered if its not going to be a massive win - so they have settled and then taken their stake of the compensation which is often a huge chunk I dont think a lot of people realise this!

[Bunty Rothsay]

I dont know whether Im allowed to do this but Im sure one of the CAG bods will remove if not! I just wanted to say a MASSIVE THANK YOU !!! to Madhari (you know who you are - I still dont) and I really really dont know where to begin! For all the support, encouragement, pointers, advice and every thing else! Thanks for being a star Madhari!

 

B:lol:

[jtors65]

bunty, i agree i'm having the exact same problem as yourself with the legal cover they have accepeted the claim but only offered £1250 which is a complete and utter insult!

 

How did you go about then filing the ET1, did you take it to tribunal stage?

 

did you decide to go with the panel solictor or fund the case yourself?

[jtors65]

did you end up using the insurers panel solictor and how did you find them compared to your own solictor that you used in the start, is there a massive difference?

 

Hi

no I didnt. Basically the househould legal insurance was part of another policy (the main policy for hte house) - which woul dhave been fine except for the fact that they chose to ignore me at every turn! From me asking for legal advice over the phone and them taking all my details every time I rang but no one ringing me back- then saying they had never spoken to me to my main insurer. My main insurance company contacting them (this is the only time they acknowledged me). To me having to send everything by recorded delivery otherwise they would say they had not received it (despite it being emailed as well)

The company were called family plus and I would not recommend them to ANYONE.

they were rude when I rang them up in a state of distress telling them that my case was imminent yet it was taking them so long to decide if I was eligible (despite my solicitor having written to them in April advising of my case and what chances he thought I had) - and then some 2 months after all the correspondence om them making a decision to support the case they declined!

I believe that household legal insurance will lbe the new thing that people will be claiming they were mis sold as I just got is as part of my policy and it was never explained and the amount of distress it has caused me in addition to the case has been awful!

B:mad2:

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi

it doesnt appear that what I sent has loaded n- so hear goes. No I was refused by the insurance company at the 11th hr (they took just under 2 months by a few days to say no despite leaving me hanging - apparently they have circa 8 weeks to tell you or you can take them to the insurance ombudsman) so at least they have accepted your case. Other people have told me that they sometimes give you the money in dribs and drabs so you may initially get the £1k to spend and then more as it goes on ie to get to different stages. But they dont tell you that when your taking the policy on! I was advised I had up to £45k of legal insurance when I purchased the policy. I was sorely disappointed with the panel solicitor as they did not on one occasion return my call for just plain legal advice - yet their telephone operators took my details over and over again. I was told they were 'extremely busy'.

 

As for the private solicitor ie my own I felt a little cheated to be honest as the clock was on every time I spoke to him (even for him to put his bill together which I found novel as I wasnt getting any benefit from this). He also advised what boxes to tick on the ET1 form etc but then back tracked when the ET1 had been submitted which I found very worrying. Especially when he sent me a lengthy backside covering email saying what he believed he had told me.

 

One would like to think that a solicitor that you are paying is better than the panel solicitor - however I filled in the ET1 form myself (badly) as costs were running away with themselves. So bad that when I got to the case management meeting (alone) the judge asked me to send further details as he could not see what I was saying. I have actually had the most help from either people looking over stuff for me on a voluntary basis and a particular person on this website who has given me pointers and cases to read and how to phrase things as well as moral support. It sounds like a cliche but there is so much on here the web too.

 

Without wishing to offend any solicitors they are all in it to make money! I think a lot of people do not realise that the no win no fee solicitors will not take the case if the win isnt going to pay them for their work with a profit - not because you dont have a case just because the payout when divided up is not enough for them - or they would settle very early on so they are paid a couple of grand for writing a few letters rather than take it further.

 

I would be inclined to try and draft your ET1 form as much as you can before you go and see your solicitor (please anyone if you think this is wrong shout up) as if you get them to complete it the allowance granted will be gone in the blink of an eye. I also thought I had to give absolutely loads of detail on the ET1 and it was not structured properly. I was advised by someone on the forum to google other cases similar to mine and thats how I should have structured my form they were the points that it should contain.

 

Also not to put everything on the ET1 form - as I was leaving myself nothing for my witness statement. I have since settled the case out of court.

[Dan22]

Apparently you can choose your own solicitor.

[honeybee13]

Apparently you can choose your own solicitor.

 

Hello and welcome to the forum. I'm not sure what you mean, would you be able to elaborate please? If you're referring to jtors65 and whether to take the panel solicitor, there's another thread or two that have moved on today.

 

My best, HB

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi

Yes it is/was my understanding that you can use your own solicitor. But they do not make it easy for you to do so in my experience. They asked me to have my solicitor write to them stating the outline of the case and my chances of winning ( Im advised you need to have a 50% chance of winning for them to support your case) - however (in my experience) even after I had advised the insurance company that I a) had my own solicitor and b) wished to continue with my solicitor

as well as having my own solicitor write to them with his take on my chances of winning in regard to all the aspects of the case they still continually referred to me using the panel solicitor,denied receiving this letter so as well as dealing with legal issues of the case myself I was constantly resending items to the insurance company.

 

My ET1, further and better particulars etc went to the insurance company and their solicitor to be reviewed and after them holding onto the information for some weeks and then requesting further info in dribs and drabs they refused to support the case (either via my own solicitor or with their panel solicitor) at the 11th hour (this followed weeks of being told a decision would be made that week, that someone would ring me back, that they had not received items I had sent - it was a nightmare). If they had actually agreed to pay my legal fees it would probably have been little or no use to me as it was so close to the tribunal date and they had already written to me saying do not continue paying your solicitor whilst we are deciding whether to support the case unless you are prepared to fund this yourself as we have not made a decision on what your chances are of winning. Given I had no assurance I would be reimbursed for legal fees expended if they did agree to support my case - I did not continue with my solicitor in the interim and responded to documents from the other side myself.

 

In the meantime my solicitor continued to chase me asking should he close the file and trying to charge me for putting his invoices together!

 

[skaatiii]

Bunty - hope you dont mind me asking.... How did you manage to 'google' other cases? I have an ET1 accepted and have provided details of remedy - and completely mucked it up! Having received the ET3 Im now really worried as its full of legal jargon and case references. Any pointers you could give me would be really appreciated. TIA

[Bunty Rothsay]

Re googling other cases I was advised at my Case Management Meeting by the judge to google Vento V West Yorkshire Police when I was calculating my schedule of loss amount - as this is what the bands of financial loss for myself would have been based on. I had great difficulty illustrating in my ET1 form the sex discrimination element of my case. Someone on the forum advised me to look up a 'continued act of discrimination' as my treatment and what I had reported would have been dismissed as being 'out of time' as I had not reported it within the allocated time had it been a one off event but by showing it had gone on and on over a period of time (they had advised me to google the chagger case). I also googled 'a continued act of sex discrimination' on their advice and a few variations of this. There is also a BP case re this.

In my case management meeting I also said to the judge that I had been discriminated against as I was a carer and I had not been allowed the same flexible working hours as others. I was advised that this was a 'novel idea' and the judge had never heard of this but would be interested to. But this was something I had seen on the CAB website - you can be discriminated if you are treated differently if you are a carer for a child or a sick, disabled or elderly person I think it was the Coleman case.

I got a bit obsessed and was googling variations of stuff too to see if I could find anything but you can spend all day doing that. Im by no means legally trained in any way and when the other side were quoting stuff I was getting in a panic.

[Bunty Rothsay]

Hi Skaatii,

Have you been to see anyone such as the CAB, or a local law centre/clinic or have you your own solicitor via your household legal insurance? Or applied for legal aid? There were lots of things out there which I didnt do and I muddled along until someone on the forum rescued me! I didnt realise all these things were out there and there was a lot of free advice. I foolishly just paid a solicitor out my own money for a while!

 

My ET1 was accepted (which I had filled in myself) and then the judge basically said he didnt really know what I was trying to say when he met me in the case managment meeting - it was then and after having another solicitor look over it as a favour that I realised I had used far too many terms that were only relevant to my ex employer and it was all a bit of a mess.

I dont know what your case is - is it sex discrimination as well? I also didnt realise as I was self represented (and the solicitor I had had hadnt told me) that I only had a certain amount of time to submit an SD74 form to my previous employer and you only get a short amount of time to do this - but is massively important and powerful tool in getting them to answer stuff and showing what they wont answer)

The other side's solicitor actually quoted a case that was irrelevant back to me! Only when I googled the case he referenced and read it a few times I realised it wasnt the same as my case.

 

Bunty

[skaatiii]

Hi Bunty - Thanks for your response. Sorry for the delay in responding - family care resulted in me being away from the PC! You seem to have things well in hand

My case is unfair dismissal and breach of contract (for OH) Im a bit worried because my schedule of loss was a mess - basically I said this was wrong and I want X.... been told since that I have probably alienated the judge but have stopped worrying about it now - just plodding on. Im between the 4-6 week stage i.e. I have to send the doc list by next weekend. I have a massive headache as the employer have instructed a top notch legal rep in London, which I refuse to worry about!! I know the whole situation stinks - I just have to prove it to the Judges satisfaction My worst point is trying to get it all organised... One important question for you = What on earth is a SD74?

Skaatiii