Help , Van Repo And Received Court Papers

[oddball1000]

Hi all ,

 

I have just received court papers for a return of goods order and intend to defend and need help. This started in January this year and has now escalated , the basics of the story is in my earlier thread .

 

It stems from illegal charges 2 attempts to reposess the van without a Court order and paying illegal extotionate charges to in house debt collectors who have told a pack of lies and have been recorded . Default notices being served and what i believe to be an unlawful recission of agreement .

You could read my 1st post which started it all off to help understand .

 

All and any advice in filling in the Court papers would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello and welcome

 

When did you receive the court papers and what's the date you have to acknowledge by??

Is there a fixed date for the hearing?

[oddball1000]

Hi wannabedebtfreeoon,

 

Court papers have an issue date stamped of 23rd July 2010

 

Envelope stamped 28/ 07 / 2010

 

It explains . to respond with a defence within 28 days of the date of service or particulars of claim

 

There is no set date for the hearing

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hi wannabedebtfreeoon,

 

Court papers have an issue date stamped of 23rd July 2010

 

Envelope stamped 28/ 07 / 2010

 

It explains . to respond with a defence within 28 days of the date of service or particulars of claim

 

There is no set date for the hearing

Ok good you've got a little time then.

I'd say the first thing you need to do is give as many details as you can so people can help.

 

If possible could you scan up your agreement, default notice and termination notice minus any personal details and also a breakdown of all your issues with this company.

 

I'm sure you'll get plenty of help on here

[Calb0b]

Subbing

 

WOW 6 Guest Hmm how interesting:p

[oddball1000]

Sure i can , it will take a while to get them all copied and sorted , there's quite a bit of correspondance and emails of figures and amounts that just dont add up even the final default notice figures dont add up to whats on the Court forms. I am having my daughter type out a transcript of the debt collectors with all the bull of what they can do and all the lies that go with them. Thanks

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Sure i can , it will take a while to get them all copied and sorted , there's quite a bit of correspondance and emails of figures and amounts that just dont add up even the final default notice figures dont add up to whats on the Court forms. I am having my daughter type out a transcript of the debt collectors with all the bull of what they can do and all the lies that go with them. Thanks

That's fine

I'm sure between us all we are more than capable of nailing their lying, cheating bums to the wall!!

[oddball1000]

Yeh i hope so , appreciate your time , I will try and get this done partly tonight and get it finished for tomorrow night .

 

Feelin less stressed already

 

Thanks again

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

You're more than welcome, always happy to help fight back against a bunch of ugly bullies

[oddball1000]

Hi all ,

 

I will be uploading all the documents and agreements shortly ( tonight ) for you to look at .

 

Basically my grief with this firm has been ongoing well before November , but came to a head mid November 2009. It stems from falling behind on payment leading upto November and being served a default Notice , which is fair enough . I had a call from J P Collectors who work for CVF and they put a ropossesion / collection charge onto the account originating from CVF , turned up unannounced to take the van ,and Cvf put on repo admin fee . ( breakdown from cvf to be posted )

All the charges added up to over £1600 , I only owed 2 payments approx £500 , after speaking to them i was intimidated into paying a reduced price of £1242 . Or they will come back and just take it . At the time i had no idea of where i stood and what was right or wrong .

 

Then i start looking on the net and find You Guys , looking through similar cases i find that the collection charges are illegal ( NEVER HAD A TERMINATION NOTICE OR BEEN TO COURT FOR A RETUN ORDER )so therefore , there repo admin fees and possibly a lot of there extortionate charges and fees cannot be charged, and write to them .

 

I disputed the charges and asked for a breakdown of there fee's , which came to nothing . Except I should have read the agreement before I sign.

 

As far as i see it . from the date i paid the £1242 in November , technically i became in credit with my account and as the next few months went by they still added more arrears letter fee's etc whilst in dispute , and refused to accept they had done nothing wrong .

 

The default notice as in the one being posted , dated 21/04/2010 is the default notice being applicable to the termination notice .

Section 4 states that , Payment of the arrears , admin costs and additional default interest due of £810.09 .these figures are total fabrication because of the illegal charges in November . Also after reading the Court papers , there solicitor has filed for a figure of £750.57 which has been manipulated to look like 3 equal missed payments and uses the termination letter date ,and completely seems to ignore the default notice , as used in the letter from CVF as to the reason for the termination .

 

Hope this all makes sense . I'll post this now and start uploading the other stuff for you to look at . Thanks.

[oddball1000]

[oddball1000]

Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:

img001.jpg

 

Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

 

 

[oddball1000]

HELP Trying my best now for over 2 hours to work out how to scan and upload papers , can anybody help

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Have you scanned them into your computer?

Once you've got them on there you need to convert them to a pdf in order to attach them to your message. You can do this through any number of websites for free or I think you can actually save a copy as pdf if you've got Office 2007 or newer.

[beyondhope]

or you can upload to photobucket (its free to register) then use the code and paste that into a message here, if stuck pm me and ill send you my email address ill upload them for you

[oddball1000]

img004.pdf

 

img005.pdf

 

img006.pdf

[oddball1000]

img007.pdf

 

img008.pdf

 

img009.pdf

 

Finally the brain starts to work and i can upload , hope i dont act like this in court

[beyondhope]

Yay you did it

[oddball1000]

Hi all , more copies of relevance being posted shortly along with copy of agreement supplied by CVF with different signature to my original copy ??? does this mean its a forged document ??

having gone over the court papers I have until Friday the 13th to get in my acknowledgment to register with the court. Some help with how to fill it in would be appreciated.

 

Can anybody answer / advise

 

Am i allowed to contact CVF's acting solicitor before going to Court , if needed.

 

Would i be able to use a transcript in court , of any recorded conversations between myself and CVF / JP Debt Collectors ,

 

Once a default notice has been served , and a termination notice issued on the back of the default notice . Is it then legal , to take me to court with totally different figures and explanation of why the default notice was issued in the 1st place, Can the solicitor / CVF only rely on the default notice issued for termination , and if they attempt to ignore it and fabricate figures to help them , would that be classed as deception ?? . How would a court react .

 

 

 

Just to let you know , the figure of £810 as in the default notice is totally wrong , having checked out all my bank statements , i have only missed one payment, which was in February , but before payment was due i was actually £95 in credit for February , if that makes a difference ?? .

 

There is also the question of VAT charged on there letters ,and admin costs , which is not a supply of goods to me and i have previously made enquiries and

will post info for you to look at , i believe its another unessesary charge i should not have to pay

 

I have genuinely gone through finacial hardship over the last 12 months and been at the lowest point possible , I have no problem in being penalised for missing a payment , but do not expect to be crucified and screwed ,lied to and threatened by a collector , and then be dragged into court as the villain , all after complaining about excessive charges .

[oddball1000]

After speaking with the VAT people they told me that the charge of VATcan only be applied if it's in the contract, i checked , and its not , but made sure by going on there website and found the section that covers finance . NOTICE 701/49.

 

Having read the info, i think i'm right in saying , i should not be being charged VAT.

Here's a snippit, 2.11 Charges made for dishonoured cheques or r /br /span style=\'float:right\'a style=\'padding-left:20px;text-align:right;font-size:80%;\' href=\'http://www.autolinker.com?ref=www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk\'AutoLinks by http://www.autolinker.com/a/span/div', BGCOLOR, '#63DD78', BORDERCOLOR, '#C9678E', BORDERWIDTH, '1', WIDTH, '-500', TITLE, 'The Direct Debit Guarantee', SHADOW, '1',FOLLOWMOUSE, 0, OPACITY, '95', FADEIN, '300', FADEOUT, '300', CLICKCLOSE, true,FOLLOWSCROLL, true,CLOSEBTN, true, PADDING, 0); microAjax('autolinker/autolinker_stats.php?uid=281811&fid=22&t=v&kw=direct debit', function (res) {;});" style="font-weight: bold; font-style: normal; text-decoration: underline; text-transform: none; font-size: 100%; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Gill Sans;">direct debit payments

 

As either a bank or a supplier of goods or services, you may charge your customers, because:

 

• they have failed to honour their cheques or direct debit payments
  
• and, if you are the supplier, you have borne the cost of bank charges.
  

If you are a bank making such a charge to your customer, the charge will be a part of your overall service for running the customer’s account and will be exempt from VAT.

If you are a supplier making such a charge to your customer, the charge will be outside the scope of VAT.

4.4 What supplies are not considered exempt credit?

 

The provision of the following to your customers are not supplies of exempt credit:

 

• Late payment penalties – if you do not explicitly allow your customers to defer payment (see paragraph 4.5) and impose a penalty because they have not paid by the due date, the penalty is not consideration for a supply and is outside the scope of VAT, or
  
• Discount for prompt payment – if you offer a discount on condition that your customer pays for your supply of goods or services within a specific time, the value for VAT is the discounted amount whether or not your customer takes up the offer. Further details can be found in Notice 700 The VAT Guide.
  

top ^

4.5 Deferred payments

 

You may allow customers to defer payment but make an extra charge for allowing them to do so. If the charge relates to periods before and up to the time of the supply (see Notice 700 The VAT Guide) it is not a charge for credit, but is further consideration for the supply of the goods or services. Alternatively where you agree to defer payment beyond the time of supply and make an additional charge for doing so, such a charge will be consideration for an exempt supply of credit.

[oddball1000]

Another question , where do i stand if i can prove to a court that my agreement has been terminated on the back of a incorrect default notice.

[beyondhope]

Another question , where do i stand if i can prove to a court that my agreement has been terminated on the back of a incorrect default notice.

 

 

if you can get this agreed by the court (dependant on whats wrong with it and the judge you have on the day) then you would then be liable for only the accurate arrears on default

[oddball1000]

this is another document used in the termination , which is NOTICE OF INTENDED PROCEEDINGS. Its funny how the one used in the Court papers differs from the original , i'd say another deception of the true facts.

SPOT THE DIFFERENCE

img012.pdf

[oddball1000]

Getting a little worried , ANYBODY OUT THERE

 

This is how i intend to set out my argument / please correct me if you think any points are incorrect

 

1, Nov 2009 , Paid charges to rectify a breach , later found out that some were illegal , the charges paid included Debt Collection recovery costs and repossession admin fee's ( never been to court )

and believe the fee's could only be charged after a court judgement.

 

2, in issuing the collection , The collectors were in breach of the Malicious Communications Act 1988 , Threatening , and giving false information etc. Possible grounds for theft / deception under the theft act 2006, section 2 of the act ,fraud by false representation

 

3. January , I disputed the recovery charges and repossession fee's of £345.00. No refund given , and told to refer to tarrif of charges { which means nothing if the charges are illegal } which had never been shown or given to me and was not included in my agreement .

 

4 , because of illegal charges added to my account in November , Technically i became in credit .

future payments for December , January carried over the credit into the following months so stayed in front of payments. But Finance company still issued arrears letters and admin cost's believing i was in default for Nov Dec , Jan { not correct , still in credit }.

 

5. One missed payment attracts a, £40.00 arrears letter fee ,

b, arrears admin charge £74.75

c, letter fee £ 63.25

surely they are unfair charges , and when disputed I was told should have read contract and tarrif of charges

 

6, Default notice served on 21/04/2010 which i think is compiant with OFT , except THE AMOUNT , Totally inaccurate and believe it is invalid on that reason, reference to

Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co NLD 14 July 1998 and Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119;

7, I believe the default notice served was invalid and therefore , the termination notice served on that default notice renders it an UNLAWFUL RECISSION OF CONTRACT.

 

8, In the particulars of claim /breach , issued by Finance companies solicitors it states arrears of rentals and other payments as at 18/05/10 as £750.57 Firstly they are not refering to the date of the TERMINATION NOTICE and NOT the default notice of £810.09to which the TERMINATION is reliant on .

 

9, On the NOTICE OF INTENDED PROCEEDINGS issued to MYSELF, it specifies figures of Arrears at termination of £1201.28 and a total incuding the future installments owed of £7937.85

 

Wheras in the particulars of claim / breach , issued by Finance companies solicitors , it states figures of £750.57 and a total including the future payment owed of £7487.14

 

My opinion is that the figures on BOTH , the TERMINATION NOTICE and in the PARTICULARS OF CLAIM have been , let's say manipulated because they know they have acted unlawfully. In itself i think it would be possible to have it struck out. possibly a case for deception.

 

10, since the termination notice was issued i have again had the collectors round to take the van and left a card with my daughter with the termination notice , no envelope ,and told my daughter all my personal information and that i owed , over two thousand pounds on the vehicle

 

They left no confirmation of this but have managed to get a breakdown of the alledged amount which includes loads of bull**** charges and repo fees of over £700 , all this AFTER a termination,

I would imagine it will show the Court how this firm operate.

 

This is the basis of my argument that i now need to set out for Court , BUT I definately still need help in tuning and wording in the correct manner for the Court to accept . I only have 5 days in which to get it to Court to be within the time needed , and then a further 14 days before filing the full defence .

 

So if anybody looks over what's here, and can offer some encouragement {fantastic }. But what i really need , is someone familiar with how to fill in the Court Acknowledgment. If you are not sure how, but know someone who could help i would be really grateful

 

Thanks in advance

[beyondhope]

Ill read through properly when I can but the one thing I noticed is the use of the term illegal.....you cant use that as it isnt criminal its civil they are unlawful not illegal