Vet misdiagnosis

[Sensus]

James I just re-read your last update post. I know a researcher in Australia who has written expert submissions re vaccination protocols etc to the RCVS and she has never received one reply. I also note that you mentioned the "only reason they may get interested" is if it's a sex/drug matter. I doubt that they are interested in criticising any of the drugs used in vaccinations though because of their research links/relationship/money. I am already expecting a pat answer from them. I also agree that I expect to stay angry for a long time as the injustice of Saffi's death interferes with the grieving, doesn't it?! The RCVS should tighten up it's Code of Conduct - and also make it mandatory for vets to keep up to date with their professional education. Their relationship to Pharmas & Food Companies also need to be examined as then we may understand the conflict of interests that go on and who is the priority? Often, it's not our pets I'm afraid.

This surgery doesn't offer you anyting unless you are privately insured - that is something else that has become apparent. They are terrified that the 'average person' won't pay their bill....!

[JerBean]

Hi Sensus. I have a smiliar problem my cat died afer going to the vets for an x ray they sedated here she then reversed it she went into severe breathig difficulty and she died that night when I was trying to get her to a pet hospital from the vets. I tried looking into lawyers but was told animals in the uk are treated as chattel and therefor one can only sue for cost of new pet and costs at vet unlike in the usa where u can sue for the loss. You could prsue them but it may cost alot of money or that is what I was told and then you have to get another vets opinion. As far as I have been comcerend my vet lied through his teeth and have lodged complaint with the RCVS but its a laborious task and only at tier one. vet has disputed all my complaints so I now have to respond to that. you can try that avenue but as sensus says justice may not be served. I dont now the outcome of mine yet but I have come to realsie all the vets stick together and even like I did if you got anyother opinion they would not go agaisnt another vet. I had to fight for 6 weeks even to get cop[ies of the x rays but you can demand those now under the data protection act 1998 section 13.5 they have to release all notes etc to you.

[Sensus]

Hi JerBean. So sorry you last your precious cat too. It is very hard for us isn't it. That's odd re the clinical notes. It was about six weeks ago when I first asked and didn't receive a reply. Then I checked the RCVS Code of Conduct and found out that they had to give you the notes and yes I saw the 13.5 Data Protection advice too. Thanks for that. They tried to phone me yesterday but I sent them an email to tell them I wanted them to email rather than phone me! They left a message to say that they wanted me to pick up the notes from the surgery as they 'don't like sending them' ....? Not sure about any of that! However I agree with you. They do back each other up and lie if necessary. I was given similar advice by a solicitor. I am trying to get hold of expert opinions anyway because like you, I still feel the need to pursue them because it is so wrong that they continue to get away with this and with no recourse because "animals aren't valued" .....Hypocritical really considering we are always going on about how much we love our animals in the UK. Good luck to you.

[Sensus]

Sorry JerBean, I meant to say sorry about the loss of your beloved cat! Typo error

[JerBean]

Dear Sensus I found you this http://www.alexanderchambers.co.uk/rowan-morton

The RCVS are theregulatory body for vets and they do investigate cases, but you are right onlyabout 10% make it past their first tier, which I think is a resource problem.THey only investigate gross misconduct. An independent vet report would involvea vet trained in legal issues who would look at the patient history, considerwhether the actions of the vet in question fell below the standard of a reasonablycompetent vet, and whether the decisions taken fell outside those that areasonable body of vets would take. You could go to small claims..The fees for small claims are on the justice.gov website. It dependson the value of your claim. I am spending all my energy right now in trying to egt justice thru the RCVS bit dont hold out much hope. I have spent 10 days full on so far writting my reubutall to the vets reponse its emotionally and stressful and upsetting reading all the lies in the clinical notes! However we have to fight vets shoudl not get away with killing our beloved pets. march on or as Vhurchill said we will fight on the beaches, we will fight in the air we wil never surrender! good luck let me know how you get on please

[Sensus]

Dear JerBean; I feel the same way about the RCVS However it is important that we inform them isn't it, even though it is so exhausting. I do agree. It always seems to be more about cover up than wanting to improve the Profession. Thank you for those links really appreciate it - I know how much hard work goes into all this research. I seem to have been doing it for a solid two & half months already but you are right. We should fight because it is so wrong that they just get away with it. Most people don't complain - just like Serious Adverse Events to drugs & vaccs aren't reported! Getting hold of evidence from other vets is one thing, but then they find 'other vets' who will be complicit in the cover up and we get nowhere. I was thinking of small claims to cover my hospital bill of £3,800 but I really want an apology and for them to admit their shoddy practices and the seriousness and tragedy of what they have done. I will let you know. We will keep in touch. (I don't know how this forum works really as I've just joined but I seem to be getting an email when you have answered so that's good.

good luck to you too....!!

[James31]

Senus, I'm sorry you lost your reply! That's very frustrating isn't it. Was Saffi having regular blood analysis? One thing we learned from our Cat Lady, was to make sure that we always do geriatric blood testing in future at least once a year once our cats get older. I'm wondering if perhaps Saffi had an underlying confidition which had gone unnoticed. If there had been blood tests, then you may well be able to rule some things out and make your case stronger.

 

If you haven't done so already, I would send a Subject Access Request letter to the vet. Assuming you haven't, here's the body text from the letter I sent to my vet in order to get everything. This is a little different to the usual because after reading the RCVS Guide to Prof Conduct, Part 2A (7) seemed pertinent. Since then, they've updated their guide and the relevant clause is now contained within secton 13.6

 

http://www.rcvs.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/code-of-professional-conduct-for-veterinary-surgeons/pdf/

 

Section 13.6 is on page 63. It reads (in part):

At the request of a client,

veterinary surgeons must provide copies of any relevant clinical and client records, including

radiographic images and similar documents

 

Again, if it was me, I'd also send a Subject Access Request to the RVC Hospital AND the Vet Med Directorate (you can email them for this apparently, at postmaster@vmd.defra.gsi.gov.uk but I would send it signed for to all three - the vet, the RVC hosp and the vet med dir).

 

I won't harp on too much in case you've already done this. But in any case, here was my letter (I've updated the section ref):

 

Dear Vet

 

Under Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 and in line with Section 13.6 of the RCVS Guide to Professional Conduct, I request that you send copies by return of:

 

1) All invoices raised against consultations and treatment for [cat name].

2) Copies of all test results

3) Full medical record for [cat name]

3) Any other contemporaneous notes you may have.

 

I have enclosed a cheque for £10 as required by law to satisfy this subject access request. Under the act, you have 40 days to supply this information. Failure to supply the requested information will result in a court order being obtained against you to comply with the request.

 

Finally, please make any further correspondence in writing and not by telephone.

 

 

If you haven't done this yet and in doing so, you obtain the medical history for Saffi, be warned that it can make for an upsetting read so set aside some time for it and don't be alone when you read it.

 

James

[Sensus]

Hi James. yes it was annoying when I lost my first draft. However .....in reply to your 'helpful hints' I did find the relevant sections about obtaining the notes and sent it to them in my second email which brought a response! However your letter is helpful because I didn't see the bit about £10 fee or the failure to comply statement so could be handy. At the moment the surgery is trying to speak to me on the phone about it but I have emailed them and told them I want everything in writing. (ie no telepone calls) - I did put this as politely as I could manage! But a question: They are trying to tell me that they can't post them out and that I have to go in and collect? Does that ring true to you? Re the VMD: I will reconsider the VMD again. I spoke to them again last week and they told me that it was the Pharma Company who first reported it (the vet reported it to the Pharma). They said that I wouldn't be able to access the assessment report because the Pharma has the right to keep it confidential!! They suggested that I ring them but didn't think I'd have much hope of getting anything out of them. Regarding Saffi's bloods. No he wasn't having any regular bloods. It's a very interesting point and I will take it on board. He seemed to be in the peak of health and enjoying life (which I know can be deceptive) but his tests were so thorough during his week in hospital and they didn't uncover anything of a 'sick' nature. However they did uncover a heart murmur which they insisted had nothing to do with the ascites. (maybe debatable - waiting for another opinion on that one). Nevertheless the vet should have picked that up before the vaccs if he was following protocol. I am a little bit wary of what I may see in his clinical notes from the surgery and I thank you for your consideration and I will have someone with me.....for sure!!!! ps I have just found out about another vet who left this surgery because of her concerns and it may be we can get some help from her. Fingers crossed!

[James31]

The collection sounds like rubbish to me. You made the request, they have your address, they should post it IMO. However, for the sake of moving things forward, I'd ensure it was ready and arrange to collect if it helps the cause. Another black mark for them, not cooperating fully.

 

On the drug company, if some truly unexpected event occurred and was directly associated with the meds, then assuming that the drug was administered correctly and of the correct dose, Saffi was in a fit state and suitable and of the correct weight, etc, etc, etc, then that is probably a dead end in terms of the vet being to blame. But there is still nothing to lose in formally requesting the info from them.

 

I'll be honest, it's a long road for you. It takes many hours of letter writing and many weeks in-between responses. I think the reason I got so far along the road was because I was willing to do investigation myself (something RCVS seem very unwilling to do) and I then went through their Guide to Prof Con and noted each and every point that I could in order to help the case - so that they couldn't just ignore it. I even threatened to take RCVS to court on more than one occasion which did get things moving when they otherwise had come to a halt!

 

Ultimately, all we ever wanted was an apology from the vet and to learn the truth. In the end we got neither and it took over a year. I suspect the same is true for you. There's a big difference between an honest vet who is willing to hold their hands up and admit they made a mistake and one which denies everything. It just makes you want justice for the sake of your puss.

 

Get the notes and take it from there. For us, they were quite revealing in parts and very useful even though they'd been edited. And importantly, see if you can get the notes from RVC that they had sent to them from your vet. You can use them to compare against the ones direct from your vet and make sure they are the same.

 

Lastly, it's against the rules for one vet to bad-mouth another. So, if you do manage to gain anything from the one who left, be careful what you do with the info as you could get them into trouble. Our "real" vet did reveal information candidly, but I did nothing with it.

[Sensus]

Thanks James. Yep, just as I thought. They could just post them but as I say, I will go along. I have already been doing this for two months, 24/7....! I've worked as a health professional most of my life and this is a combination of drugs that are used for vaccinations that really don't have solid research evidence; pets are being 'over-vaccinated' and the rules in USA & other countries have been altered to improve safety. The drug companies know all this. However this vet didn't follow protocol in any measure. He didn't give Saffi a thorough health check before the vacc. then when Saffi already evidence that his immune defence had failed from the first injection (hence the ascites) he ignored my warning and vaccinated him again!! Then they didn't act to administer antihistamines or anything (I know this after the event of course) and allowed time to go by whilst his condition worsened and offered him nothing...!! I kept pushing but they did nothing. (The vacc. drugs weren't necessary and one was given that wasn't due for another 12 months at the very least)

I will get the handover notes though - that is a very very good idea. Though I know the vet did send my email in which I had suggested it was a SAR. so he was open enough to do that. Lastly (as you say) I would keep that information completely & utterly confidential. The same as I would do in my own profession. We are only collecting inforation at this stage. Just as you say - and it takes a long time I agree. I have already read many pages of the RVCA Code of Conduct and intend to do the same as you. So hard isn't it?! But like you again, I will continue to strive to obtain some form of justice because it is so wrong....

[Sensus]

James thanks for your last message. I understand what you are saying and hopefully keep a look out. I can't post privately yet as I haven't been on the forum long enough.

[JerBean]

Keep going as I am with the RCVS I am only at tier 1 so who knows if it wil go any further. small claims is another otion oor a solicitor that deals with pet negligence. The vets however all seem to watch each others backs to hard to get them to testify against each other. good luck I will keep you informed this end!

[Sensus]

Thanks JerBean. That was a very interesting link you sent regarding the lawyers. I will contact them. I have spoken to one already who advised me it is difficult to win cases against vets - even in the small claim court because they still want expert reports. But just as you said, they back each other up so even if you have a couple of expert reports they will have another and it's difficult to win against that. Also the courts "aren't interested in animals, only in money" (which I believe you have also been told) However, I am still thinking about my options but I am certain that I will be doing the RVC complaint. The vet surgery informed me today that they are posting all the clinical notes to me today. I'm not expecting everything to be complete though.

[JerBean]

Hi Sensus

dont tell the vets you are gong to file a colmplaint until you have all the notes, history, x rasy if done etc on your cat otherwise they could doctor the info.! good luck.

[Sensus]

Hi JerBean. No I haven't told them but I am pretty sure they suspect that I may want to do something. I'll be able to tell when I get the notes I reckon.