Hi JerBean. No I haven't told them but I am pretty sure they suspect that I may want to do something. I'll be able to tell when I get the notes I reckon.

Thanks JerBean. That was a very interesting link you sent regarding the lawyers. I will contact them. I have spoken to one already who advised me it is difficult to win cases against vets - even in the small claim court because they still want expert reports. But just as you said, they back each other up so even if you have a couple of expert reports they will have another and it's difficult to win against that. Also the courts "aren't interested in animals, only in money" (which I believe you have also been told) However, I am still thinking about my options but I am certain that I will be doing the RVC complaint. The vet surgery informed me today that they are posting all the clinical notes to me today. I'm not expecting everything to be complete though.

James thanks for your last message. I understand what you are saying and hopefully keep a look out. I can't post privately yet as I haven't been on the forum long enough.

Thanks James. Yep, just as I thought. They could just post them but as I say, I will go along. I have already been doing this for two months, 24/7....! I've worked as a health professional most of my life and this is a combination of drugs that are used for vaccinations that really don't have solid research evidence; pets are being 'over-vaccinated' and the rules in USA & other countries have been altered to improve safety. The drug companies know all this. However this vet didn't follow protocol in any measure. He didn't give Saffi a thorough health check before the vacc. then when Saffi already evidence that his immune defence had failed from the first injection (hence the ascites) he ignored my warning and vaccinated him again!! Then they didn't act to administer antihistamines or anything (I know this after the event of course) and allowed time to go by whilst his condition worsened and offered him nothing...!! I kept pushing but they did nothing. (The vacc. drugs weren't necessary and one was given that wasn't due for another 12 months at the very least) I will get the handover notes though - that is a very very good idea. Though I know the vet did send my email in which I had suggested it was a SAR. so he was open enough to do that. Lastly (as you say) I would keep that information completely & utterly confidential. The same as I would do in my own profession. We are only collecting inforation at this stage. Just as you say - and it takes a long time I agree. I have already read many pages of the RVCA Code of Conduct and intend to do the same as you. So hard isn't it?! But like you again, I will continue to strive to obtain some form of justice because it is so wrong....

Hi James. yes it was annoying when I lost my first draft. However .....in reply to your 'helpful hints' I did find the relevant sections about obtaining the notes and sent it to them in my second email which brought a response! However your letter is helpful because I didn't see the bit about £10 fee or the failure to comply statement so could be handy. At the moment the surgery is trying to speak to me on the phone about it but I have emailed them and told them I want everything in writing. (ie no telepone calls) - I did put this as politely as I could manage! But a question: They are trying to tell me that they can't post them out and that I have to go in and collect? Does that ring true to you? Re the VMD: I will reconsider the VMD again. I spoke to them again last week and they told me that it was the Pharma Company who first reported it (the vet reported it to the Pharma). They said that I wouldn't be able to access the assessment report because the Pharma has the right to keep it confidential!! They suggested that I ring them but didn't think I'd have much hope of getting anything out of them. Regarding Saffi's bloods. No he wasn't having any regular bloods. It's a very interesting point and I will take it on board. He seemed to be in the peak of health and enjoying life (which I know can be deceptive) but his tests were so thorough during his week in hospital and they didn't uncover anything of a 'sick' nature. However they did uncover a heart murmur which they insisted had nothing to do with the ascites. (maybe debatable - waiting for another opinion on that one). Nevertheless the vet should have picked that up before the vaccs if he was following protocol. I am a little bit wary of what I may see in his clinical notes from the surgery and I thank you for your consideration and I will have someone with me.....for sure!!!! ps I have just found out about another vet who left this surgery because of her concerns and it may be we can get some help from her. Fingers crossed!

Dear JerBean; I feel the same way about the RCVS However it is important that we inform them isn't it, even though it is so exhausting. I do agree. It always seems to be more about cover up than wanting to improve the Profession. Thank you for those links really appreciate it - I know how much hard work goes into all this research. I seem to have been doing it for a solid two & half months already but you are right. We should fight because it is so wrong that they just get away with it. Most people don't complain - just like Serious Adverse Events to drugs & vaccs aren't reported! Getting hold of evidence from other vets is one thing, but then they find 'other vets' who will be complicit in the cover up and we get nowhere. I was thinking of small claims to cover my hospital bill of £3,800 but I really want an apology and for them to admit their shoddy practices and the seriousness and tragedy of what they have done. I will let you know. We will keep in touch. (I don't know how this forum works really as I've just joined but I seem to be getting an email when you have answered so that's good. good luck to you too....!!

Sorry JerBean, I meant to say sorry about the loss of your beloved cat! Typo error

Hi JerBean. So sorry you last your precious cat too. It is very hard for us isn't it. That's odd re the clinical notes. It was about six weeks ago when I first asked and didn't receive a reply. Then I checked the RCVS Code of Conduct and found out that they had to give you the notes and yes I saw the 13.5 Data Protection advice too. Thanks for that. They tried to phone me yesterday but I sent them an email to tell them I wanted them to email rather than phone me! They left a message to say that they wanted me to pick up the notes from the surgery as they 'don't like sending them' ....? Not sure about any of that! However I agree with you. They do back each other up and lie if necessary. I was given similar advice by a solicitor. I am trying to get hold of expert opinions anyway because like you, I still feel the need to pursue them because it is so wrong that they continue to get away with this and with no recourse because "animals aren't valued" .....Hypocritical really considering we are always going on about how much we love our animals in the UK. Good luck to you.

James I just re-read your last update post. I know a researcher in Australia who has written expert submissions re vaccination protocols etc to the RCVS and she has never received one reply. I also note that you mentioned the "only reason they may get interested" is if it's a sex/drug matter. I doubt that they are interested in criticising any of the drugs used in vaccinations though because of their research links/relationship/money. I am already expecting a pat answer from them. I also agree that I expect to stay angry for a long time as the injustice of Saffi's death interferes with the grieving, doesn't it?! The RCVS should tighten up it's Code of Conduct - and also make it mandatory for vets to keep up to date with their professional education. Their relationship to Pharmas & Food Companies also need to be examined as then we may understand the conflict of interests that go on and who is the priority? Often, it's not our pets I'm afraid. This surgery doesn't offer you anyting unless you are privately insured - that is something else that has become apparent. They are terrified that the 'average person' won't pay their bill....!

James31 I did just write a very long reply but I seem to have lost it. I can't write it all again. The summary is the vet surgery didn't follow safe protocols (check WSAVA for proper advice on annual vaccinations); he restarted my 11 yr old Saffi on the second vacc. didn't believe he was already having an adverse event from his first vaccination 3 weeks earlier! I insisted he look again & 7 days later he did an ultrasound and found all the fluid in Saffi's tummy. His answer was confusion & suggested euthanasia etc ....Basically they just let him get worse & worse doing nothing till I demanded a referral for the R.V.C.Hospital (hence the big bill) and there finding was "Ascities: cause unknown" prognosis: eventual death. It has been registerd with the Vet Med Directorate as a SAR (serious adverse event) but I won't be given a copy of their report as it is "confidential" (Big Pharma's Business eh...) The hospital (RCVS) sent Saffi's reports etc to my surgery "thanking them for their referral and supporting their work..." !! How is that for rubbing salt into the wound. I'm going to write to the hospital & the RCVS but I don't expect them to do a single thing. I am gathering evidence from experts in the field as I think that the way many of these vets treat the public is like cash cows......and keep them in the dark and don't give them all the information they need to decide WHETHER to vaccinate their pets and how frequently it is really needed. It was a truly shocking and traumatic experience (as you know well). Apparently Adverse Events don't get reported so pharma companies etc which makes their research evidence flawed. The general public are entitled to the truth. The only reason this came out was because I'm an ex health worker and I joined the dots, so to speak. Bit late though for my precious boy.

Did I just lose my reply to James 31?

James I read your story and was furious for you. I agree the RCA, Vets, Pharmas - law to themselves with no accountability. I had to rush my poor boy into hospital - the cost was £3,800 eventually! They vaccinated him even when I told them at the second vacc. that he was sick and had had a reaction from the first (I didn't realize that at the time). Like many people, we trust vets. Now I wouldn't trust any of them. There's heaps to know about vaccinations that they don't tell you as well and it seems that they are given free reign. I have just requested the surgery notes but I am expecting problems and errors with them. For sure. Thank you so much for replying......so sorry and I admire all the work you did. It is so hard and it takes it out of you.

Elsa, do you happen to know any links for solicitors that deal with professional negligence by vets? Our beautiful family cat died after a vaccination, We have quite a bit of expert opinions who agrees it was gross negligence. I have been researching 24/7 since out darling boy died - and also been looking for solicitors who specialize in animal negligence but seem very hard to find.