Can UAE mortgage/credit card debt debt be enforced in the UK?

[ihaveaq]

Hi All,

 

First of all - great site. Have just spent an hour searching and going through threads and learning a lot. However I've not yet been able to find a definitive answer to a question:

 

Can overseas debt be enforced in the UK? I'm a Brit living in the UK, but due to loss of job had to leave Dubai (where the debt was created). Can the bank in Dubai try to recover the debt in the UK or can it sell on the debt and can DCA's try to recover it?

 

It's a mortgage plus some credit card debt. We paid off what we could before we left, and made sure our employees were looked after (even though the investor had done a runner). But if any of you are familiar with the way things work over there you'll know you do not tell your bank you're leaving - otherwise you'll first have a travel restriction placed on you then be put in prison.

 

Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.

[ihaveaq]

Just a quickie bump.

 

I've been researching this issue for some months now (for obvious reasons) and have not found a single case where someone who has debt in Dubai (or non-EU) has had their debt enforced in the UK. However I would really appreciate any comments/help other CAG'ers can give on this.

 

There is only one instance, shown in the links below, where a "professional" DCA, based in Dubai, has said action can be taken in the UK.

 

If anyone else reads this and has debt in Dubai, here are some links I've found during my research (they may make interesting reading for other ppl). Some of these are Oz-related as well. Apologies in advance if the links break any rules.

 

 

[cashins]

Doubt it very much.

 

I cannot see how a UK court could enforce an agreement under UK law

 

David

[ihaveaq]

Thanks David.

 

Would it make any difference if a UK DCA purchased the debt, even though the original debt (and agreements etc.) were from Dubai?

 

The reasons I ask is because I've been researching through this forum and found this post on a similar topic:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/42988-debt-too-old.html#post405373

[fuzzybobble]

Even if a UK based DCA bought the debt, they would still have to produce a CCA that is valid under UK law. I doubt a credit agreement from Dubai would be worth the paper it's printed on.

[Ruprecht]

Do you have copies of the agreements still? Does it say they are governed by Dubai Law? Most contracts state what law is to be used.

 

You talk about enforcement. Do they have a judgment in Dubai against you?

 

If not, do they know your address here? I know nothing about Dubai law and how they'd have to serve you if they proceeded against you or even if they have to proceed against you to get a judgment for this sort of thing.

 

In the UK you have to seek the Court's permission to serve out of Jurisdiction in proceedings and prove the defendant was so served.

 

If the contract is governed by Dubai law then you'd defend that the court didn't have jurisdiction if anyone tried to bring proceedings here.

 

Ask a solicitor for a free consultation if you are worred.

[ihaveaq]

Thanks a lot for the feedback guys.

 

To answer Ruprecht's questions:

 

Do you have copies of the agreements still? Does it say they are governed by Dubai Law? Most contracts state what law is to be used. - no I don't have copies anymore, but I'm 100% sure it was the competent courts of Dubai that governed the agreements.

 

You talk about enforcement. Do they have a judgment in Dubai against you? - no, however they're moving to one over the mortgage and one of the credit cards. Defaulting on a loan is a criminal case in Dubai, not a civil one, so it goes into the criminal courts.

 

If not, do they know your address here? I know nothing about Dubai law and how they'd have to serve you if they proceeded against you or even if they have to proceed against you to get a judgment for this sort of thing. - a debt collection company has our PO box, but that's it.

 

In the UK you have to seek the Court's permission to serve out of Jurisdiction in proceedings and prove the defendant was so served. - could you please clarify. Do you mean that to serve for a non-UK debt in the UK you first have to seek a UK court's permission?

 

If the contract is governed by Dubai law then you'd defend that the court didn't have jurisdiction if anyone tried to bring proceedings here. - that's pretty much what my research says as well.

 

Does anyone know of any cases at all like this? I've not yet found a case where someone with a Dubai debt, or even a UAE debt, has been taken to court. There does not seem to be any precedent I can find.

 

EDIT: one more thing I forgot, which may back up what fuzzybobble said. When you take out any kind of loan in the UAE you sign a single, blank, undated cheque (if you're takng out a car loan you also pre-sign and pre-date all the monthly cheques in advance). What happens if you do not make a payment is the bank takes that bounced cheque to the Police who can then start a criminal case.

 

So.....would the fact that you're forced to sign a blank, undated cheque in advance automatically mean the CCA was null and void in the UK thereby meaning they cannot enforce any UAE-based judgement?

Edited January 26, 2010 by ihaveaq
Additional info

[ihaveaq]

Have talked to a couple of solicitors, and essentially what they're saying is that a foreign court judgement can be brought into the UK and enforced via UK courts. See these two docs for more info:

 

http://www.lavellecoleman.ie/cuuploads/editor/file/EnforcementofForeignJudgementsinEnglandandWales.pdf

PART 74 - ENFORCEMENT OF JUDGMENTS IN DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS - Ministry of Justice - section 1

 

So, if I follow this correctly, the Dubai court can issue a judgement, and the creditor can act to have it applied in the UK.

 

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience in whether this could actually happen in practise?

[GuidoT]

Ensure you do not go back to the UAE, you will be put in prison on entry, you will be flagged up at passport control.

 

The rules of law are different to ours. They treat debt differently to us, eg. if you bounce a cheque you get put in prison for 30 days - no questions asked.

 

I do not see how they could enforce the debt in this country. Dubai's legal system is in its infancy and not much use.

[kurvaface]

Wait till Anjem Choudary gets Sharia Law in the UK.... then start worrying:p

[cerberusalert]

See http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/overseas-debt/250889-can-i-sued-overseas.html

[ihaveaq]

 

Since then my circumstances have changed a lot and I'm interested in seeing if it's possible to repay the debt so I can travel to / through GCC countries.

 

I've read that the banks hike up the interest rates to astronomical amounts, so wanted to see if anyone had successfully contacted them after leaving to arrange paying back the borrowed amount without interest?

 

Some more info:

• Although I'm British, I don't live in the UK, and have never been directly contacted by a debt collector or UAE bank since I left the UAE.
• It's 10 years since I left the UAE
• The last message I got was about 8 years ago with a Final Notice from the UAE bank by email.
• The amount was around GBP 10K

 

I've contacted (removed website name - dx) as I figured the obvious place to start is to see if there is a case(s) registered against me.

 

Have asked them if they can do a Police check to see if there's anything against me.

 

I have some questions if anyone can help:

• Has anyone on here contacted the banks after leaving the UAE and successfully negotiated a reasonable amount AND paid that back? Were you able to safely travel to the UAE?
• Are (removed website name - dx) trustworthy? (I keep reading about a "site that is not mentioned" on this site, but don't know which one people are referring to).
• My understanding is that the statue bar for the UAE is 15 years. What happens after 15 years, is the debt and the criminal case automatically erased? Is there any way of finding out?

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

[dx100uk]

had to remove the site name.

no wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them.

 

if you've heard nowt to date since you last thread (now merged here)

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

shame you contacted that fleecing site though they might think you are a mug worth trying in on with you now.

 

 

[ihaveaq]

Thanks DX, appreciate the reply Now I know not to trust that site.

 

Since I'm interested in seeing if there is any way to pay the original debt so that I can travel through Dubai, rather than the exorbitant amount it's probably become by now, I was looking at other sites that can possibly check on whether there is a ban registered against me in the UAE. I found [removed - HB]. Has anyone heard good/bad things about that site?

 

Also, original question still stands if anyone can help. Has anyone on CAG successfully negotiated with a bank to repay the amount after being out of the country for several years?

 

Thanks!

[dx100uk]

people have but it backfires unless you have it in WRITING the debt is settled from the original bank

[sherman19]

You will need to get a watertight acknowledgement - which i imagine will be difficult!

Especially as you have to pay them before they acknowledge payment. 

 

What i would suggest is that you do all the negotiation to get to a figure you are comfortable with

- and then get a UK solicitor to make the payment on your behalf. 

 

This may cost a few shekels, but it should give you peace of mind (any others have any thoughts on this? It's an idea i have been toying with myself).

 

I'm no expert but at least this should ensure you are protected in this jurisdiction - as to what would happen if you went back (or through any GCC countries) is another matter entirely. 

 

Personally, i would never risk travelling through there again.

 

Sorry - just noticed that you don't reside in the UK - in which case i would just forget about it completely.