Fuel contamination

[wybmadiity]

Desperately hoping someone can help.

 

Shortly before Christmas I filled my petrol-engined car with what I believed to be unleaded petrol from an unleaded pump. Both the receipt and the forecourt CCTV confirm this.

 

There was only little fuel in my car when i refuelled, and the car started to play up about half way home on a trip of approx. 8 miles. I left to take the car to my usual mechanic the next day to check the car over, and broke down just half a mile from home.

 

I was recovered to the garage, and pretty stunned to find my tank was full of diesel.

 

Now the cost for repairs and car hire to keep me on the road in the meantime is close to £1,000, and that's £1,000 that I can't afford as I'm disabled and on benefits and has caused me a huge problem.

 

The petrol station have shown me the CCTV which indeed shows me filling from an unleaded pump, yet say no-one else has had a problem and have now just referred me onwards to their insurance company. I have reported the matter to them, but am having difficulty getting an answer as to if and when I will receive recompense for the damage caused.

 

The garage who repaired my car have kept the fuel and all the damaged parts. I can't afford for this to drag on, so would appreciate any advice anyone can give.

 

Many thanks

[heliosuk]

Interesting this. If it was the other way around in that petrol was in a diesel then a grand to repair I'd question as being too cheap. In your case, apart from recovery costs it should not have taken much more than 5 hours labour and perhaps at the outside an oil and filter change to rectify.

 

What car and when did it happen? Even on Xmas day the charge seems excessive.

 

The garage response is standard but you do need to report it to the likes of TS and get the evidence. I can't believe you were the only one either.

 

Anymore details available??

[wybmadiity]

The fact it was diesel in a petrol engine made it worse. The diesel glued everything up, and the fact there wasn't much petrol in the tank when I filled up meant the diesel had got right through the engine.

 

All the plugs and filters needed to be replaced, and the misfiring also made the coil explode. Plus obviously the cost of having the tank drained in the first place which was £150. All the computer bases had to be reset, and the diesel melted the catalytic converter. All told the repair bill was about £700 and my car hire just over £200.

 

The car is a 1.8 VW Golf estate and this happened 10 days before Christmas (perfect timing - not).

 

So I should contact trading standards as a matter of course then?

 

Thanks

[havinastella]

Hi,

 

I'll try to help as much as possible.

 

If you have clear evidence that you were using an U/L pump, you would be 99.999999999% putting U/L in your car. It would be almost impossible for the tanker driver to deliver the wrong fuel to the tank. In addition, most tanks are kept 1/2 full for the delivery, so at most you'd have a 50-50 mix.

 

Firstly I'd check with the garage when they had last had a delivery to the tank that fed that pump (different tanks feed different pumps)

 

Second I'd check if the garage had had any other problems. If Derv had been delivered to an U/L tank, EVERYONE would know.

 

Who told you that the car was filled with derv? Did you work it out yourself or did the garage tell you?

 

As an engineer working on the forecourts this is extremely unlikely to have happened.

 

Jogs

[wybmadiity]

Hi Jogs

 

This is what's baffling me!

 

Both the recovery driver and repair garage confirmed diesel (although garage did say was possibly not pure diesel, although couldn't tell how much was due to what was left in my tank when I filled up). But they have given me a sample of the drained fuel and is clear just to look at is not petrol.

 

But as I said, both receipt and CCTV clearly show filling from unleaded pump. Only drove home, and amount of fuel drained more or less tallied with amount of fuel purchased.

 

The question is are the garage just lying through their teeth hoping I'm a useless female and will go away....

[havinastella]

Hi Jogs

 

This is what's baffling me!

 

Both the recovery driver and repair garage confirmed diesel (although garage did say was possibly not pure diesel, although couldn't tell how much was due to what was left in my tank when I filled up). But they have given me a sample of the drained fuel and is clear just to look at is not petrol.

 

But as I said, both receipt and CCTV clearly show filling from unleaded pump. Only drove home, and amount of fuel drained more or less tallied with amount of fuel purchased.

 

The question is are the garage just lying through their teeth hoping I'm a useless female and will go away....

 

Well no.

 

If the tank was filled with derv by mistake, it now has a derv/U/L mix.

 

If you want definate proof, get the site to take a sample of the tank FIRST thing tomorrow. They will have a contract service and an engineer should be able to come out straight away.

 

IT really, really is unlikely that there is derv in the U/L tank.

 

Jogs

[wybmadiity]

But it was less than 24 hours between my filling the car up and it breaking down. I drove only 8 miles, and the car was locked in my garage overnight.

 

I have also already checked, and the diesel pump from that garage will not even fit in my tank.

 

There has been a big mistake somewhere it seems that someone is not owning up to. What I really need to know now is how to resolve it :?

[mazbck]

Just a thought but arent the nozzle sizes for Derv and Petrol different sizes now, ie, the derv pump is bigger than the size of the petrol tank, therefore it would be unable to fit in the car if the OP had put diesel into the car.

 

My darling OH in a strange moment the Sunday before Christmas put petrol into our diesel golf. It wasnt much and he tried to dilute it down with diesel, as Diesel is heavier than petrol, and it should have run OK. As a result we ended up with a £300 bill from the garage to get the car drained, and filter changed etc.

 

Please dont laugh at him, its not his fault he is a mechanic working on mostly diesel cars, 5 days a week!!!!

[havinastella]

Just a thought but arent the nozzle sizes for Derv and Petrol different sizes now, ie, the derv pump is bigger than the size of the petrol tank, therefore it would be unable to fit in the car if the OP had put diesel into the car.

 

My darling OH in a strange moment the Sunday before Christmas put petrol into our diesel golf. It wasnt much and he tried to dilute it down with diesel, as Diesel is heavier than petrol, and it should have run OK. As a result we ended up with a £300 bill from the garage to get the car drained, and filter changed etc.

 

Please dont laugh at him, its not his fault he is a mechanic working on mostly diesel cars, 5 days a week!!!!

 

 

Totally correct and something I forget to mention.

 

A derv spout with not fit into a U/L tank.

 

Just from a personnal opinion, this looks like the garage (Not the service station) is trying to pull a fast one.

 

As I have said, its almost, I repeat almost impossible for the tanker driver to drop a derv pot into an unleaded tank.

 

Get the site to take a sample tomorrow from the tank.

 

Jogs

[wybmadiity]

Thank you Jogs, I appreciate what you are saying and will request they do that tomorrow.

 

But if my garage is at fault (and I would query that, because have known them personally for many years), then the Green Flag driver must also be in cahoots......because he told me the same thing before he'd even towed my car!

 

To enable me to understand more could you please explain why it would be almost unheard of for diesel to be put in an unleaded tank?

 

Many thanks for your time.

[heliosuk]

It is possible to get wrong fuel into a tank from the tanker though very unlikely, plus water which needs to be removed on a regular basis not being done so. If a mistake in tanker delivery did occur then it is very unlikely that it's a 50/50 mix as any garage who tops up tanks to this extent is effectively sitting on stock and this just doesn't happen now. You don't refill tanks of this size unless empty or on an offer you can't refuse.

 

Diesel into a petrol car will NOT cause the cat to be changed. It's the same stuff effectively though if more modern then diesels have an after combustion traetment added and this could potentially have been affected but is unlikely.

 

I'd say it's irrelevant if the garage is lying or not, this is for them to prove to the insurance co and then if not the garages fault then to look towards the rapairing agent for unnecessary repairs.

[pompeyfaith]

can i suggest you post on a car forum also im sure there is one 4 the golf that way u will get good help on the car issues

[heliosuk]

How do you know it's a golf?

[cynic09]

Diesel getting into a forecourt petrol tank is highly unlikely as my engineer friend says, having been 14 years in the business I know a thing or two.

It's not impossible however. But and its a big but, on the smallest of filling stations each nozzel will fuel over 30 cars a day, hundreds in bigger stations. It's almost unheard of these days for any given tank to have only one nozzel connected to it. Lets go for small again and say only four are connected to the tank you drew fuel from.

in a 24 hour period at least 120 cars have drawn fuel from the same tank as you. But only you have broken down??????????????????

Or is it easier to believe the repair garage has fed you a story blaming fuel to charge you a small fortune?

Easy check, report it to trading standards they have the power to fully investigate any premises LICENCED to sell motor fuel.

Thats the killer.........you need a licence to flog fuel but not to fix cars

[pompeyfaith]

post 3 lol

[wybmadiity]

Thanks Cycnic, I understand your reservations. Though as I say, recovery driver stated there was diesel in my car before it was even towed. And if I owned the filling station perhaps I wouldn't want to own upto it either! And how many people may be thinking stressful week before Christmas, whoops I've cocked up and misfuelled and not considered filling station may be at fault??

 

There are just too many coincidences here.

 

And I must confess, a little upset that all anyone is really trying to do is discount the whole thing.

 

Yes it IS possible. And yes the damage to my car IS feasible. What I really wanted was advice as to how I go about recovering my losses. With my car locked in my garage overnight and 2 completely independent people confirming the same thing it seems more likely than not there is an error with the fuel, not the repair garage.

 

Not only do I have the drained fuel (which I witnessed being drained), but also the parts which I have also seen being taken off the car.

 

As for diesel not damaging a petrol catalytic converter, simply not true.

 

Perhaps I should ask somewhere else for help

[heliosuk]

Diesel getting into a forecourt petrol tank is highly unlikely as my engineer friend says, having been 14 years in the business I know a thing or two.

It's not impossible however. But and its a big but, on the smallest of filling stations each nozzel will fuel over 30 cars a day, hundreds in bigger stations. It's almost unheard of these days for any given tank to have only one nozzel connected to it. Lets go for small again and say only four are connected to the tank you drew fuel from.

in a 24 hour period at least 120 cars have drawn fuel from the same tank as you. But only you have broken down??????????????????

Or is it easier to believe the repair garage has fed you a story blaming fuel to charge you a small fortune?

Easy check, report it to trading standards they have the power to fully investigate any premises LICENCED to sell motor fuel.

Thats the killer.........you need a licence to flog fuel but not to fix cars

 

Thats my point and thanks.

 

As I have said it can happen but is unlikely.

 

So if it did happen, as has been pointed out it can then lets look at the other possibilities.

 

As said before, diesel in a petrol engine is not as bad as petrol in a diesel engine.

 

On the info supplied so far I'd be homing in on the garage who repaired who as I point out earlier have changed things perhaps not necessaily required. if it's diesel in a petrols engine then it's just a clean out and it will sort itself out after a few miles but the other way around with a modern diesel then it could be very expensive.

 

Either way the charge seems excessive as the car is performing ok now it seems. A grand to clean a fuel system out is excessive in my book even if you lived in central london or tokyo for that matter.

[Crapstone]

My suggestion is to get Trading Standards out to the pump you refueled from.

 

Your main problem is that you already seem to have had the car repaired. Do you still have the parts? I always ask for the faulty parts to be given back and if I know a particular part is due to be replaced I mark it. I've had it a few times where a garage thinks because you are female, you don't know what they are talking about and they have given me parts back that weren't on my car in the first place. Or they have claimed to have replaced something and all they did was shine it up with WD40 or put on reconditioned items and charged them as new.

 

Your local TS will find out if the tank was contaminated.

[heliosuk]

post 3 lol

 

Just going to beat myself severley and make the cats watch as a punishment for being unusally well behaved tonight!

 

They are off to spec savers tomorrow!

[Crapstone]

There is also a possibilty it's not that particular garage. You could have fuelled up the previous day or by using a can.

 

Proving the case is going to be difficult. If others had had the same problem it would be easy but one person...it's doubtful.

[wybmadiity]

Yes Crapstone. Not only have I witnessed all parts being replaced, but have then taken them away with me. And I know I'm female, but father used to be a director for VW so never been daft around cars, but understand lots take advantage and assume we are.

 

But there is no mistaking 2 different people stating the problem was diesel and my witnessing said fuel being drained. And as the repairer is a longstanding friend who has always done the utmost to avoid me spending money, I am also quite happy that I have not been ripped off, and he would know better than to try that lol.

 

I will contact TS and see that they say.

 

And thank you for your help helios, but think perhaps you should have a reread on just what diesel can do to a petrol engine and cat!

[Crapstone]

There was something in the papers the other day about people using the wrong fuel..seem to be popular on a Friday evening and Monday morning. They are campaigning for different coloured pipes as people will drip the fuel in even if the nozzle doesn't fit!

[pompeyfaith]

i do not agree having worked in a maindealer francise 4 15 years i have seen many cars come in with wrong fuel added and yes diesel in a petrol engine can be just as harmful depending how far down the fuel lines it has got and yes it can damage the cat cars are so advanced today and engines work to very fine tolerences

[wybmadiity]

Crapstone - you have obviously not read the part about my being on CCTV using an unleaded pump. And that was the first time I had refuelled for 10 days.

 

Perhaps it's not only the filling station who think dumb female, but everyone here also.

 

I will go to my solicitor and get advice from someone less biased :-|

[Crapstone]

Yes Crapstone. Not only have I witnessed all parts being replaced, but have then taken them away with me. And I know I'm female, but father used to be a director for VW so never been daft around cars, but understand lots take advantage and assume we are.

 

But there is no mistaking 2 different people stating the problem was diesel and my witnessing said fuel being drained. And as the repairer is a longstanding friend who has always done the utmost to avoid me spending money, I am also quite happy that I have not been ripped off, and he would know better than to try that lol.

 

I will contact TS and see that they say.

 

And thank you for your help helios, but think perhaps you should have a reread on just what diesel can do to a petrol engine and cat!

 

Ask to speak to a senior officer or one that is qualified in metrology. Either they will deal will it or pass it over for more thorough testing. They love cases like this, it's a bit different from the norm. and they don't get much since Consumer Direct was launched.