Fuel contamination

[pompeyfaith]

TS is your first port of call so the station tank can be dipped before it is refilled and if there are traces of derv it will have to be shut off and be specialist cleaned

[wybmadiity]

Thank you Crapstone, will do

[Crapstone]

Crapstone - you have obviously not read the part about my being on CCTV using an unleaded pump. And that was the first time I had refuelled for 10 days.

 

Perhaps it's not only the filling station who think dumb female, but everyone here also.

 

I will go to my solicitor and get advice from someone less biased :-|

 

Sorry?

 

I did read your post But just beacause you were caught on camera that time doesn't mean you couldn't have put fuel in at another station prior to that.

 

I'm only stating what the arguement would be. You have had the car repaired. You are the only one to have had a problem. What would you think? We are only trying to help you see it from all sides.

[wybmadiity]

Pompey I already have a problem there. I filled on Wed 16 December but was unable to speak to anyone at the filling station until Mon 21 December. I tried beforehand but manager was off and no-one else wanted to know. Between the Wed and Mon there had been a further fuel delivery. They did tell me when I reported it on the Monday they would immediately close that pump, but despite asking them what's happened no-one will tell me.

 

So probably a bit late for TS to do much other than test the fuel I've had drained.

[wybmadiity]

I tried to explain Crapstone. I had not refilled for 10 days. Refilled at 5pm, drove straight home 8 miles and car was already lumpy halfway home. Was taking to garage next morning and broke down half mile from home. Very little fuel in car when I filled up. Amount drained almost equal to fuel purchased and was diesel or diesel/petrol mix. Even witness who can state I was at home and didn't go anywhere!

 

Yes I'm baffled if they say no-one else has had a problem. But there is also such a thing as people lying and/or damage limitation. And I have 2 independent people happy to state diesel caused my problem.

 

All I want is to find a way to get my money back

[pompeyfaith]

well they may dip it anyway as it would take a few refills 4 all traces of derv to clear i would expect

[wybmadiity]

OK will call them anyway Pompey, thanks

[cynic09]

Pompey I already have a problem there. I filled on Wed 16 December but was unable to speak to anyone at the filling station until Mon 21 December. I tried beforehand but manager was off and no-one else wanted to know. Between the Wed and Mon there had been a further fuel delivery. They did tell me when I reported it on the Monday they would immediately close that pump, but despite asking them what's happened no-one will tell me.

 

So probably a bit late for TS to do much other than test the fuel I've had drained.

 

Not so.

Firstly if a crossover has occured there will be a considerable number of complaints to TS,

Secondly, dependant on the flow rate of the tank in question and how frequently replenished. There would still be derv in the tank, being heavier than petrol it sinks. TS would have to get our engineer friend out for this one. Tanks are difficult to "dip" nowadays. TS tend to sample the dispenser.

The likelyhood of a crossover varies with who actually operates the site, not all stations are equal, but we are talking 5000 to 7500 litres of fuel here assuming the tank was run down, a total of up to 10000 litres of contaminated fuel is going to affect anything up to 250 cars. Of course if it's a very small station this may take a few days.

The stations are legally required to maintain a number of "wetstock" records that again TS can examine and a crossover would be apparent there.

The whole process of selling fuel is far tightly controled than the general public realise, I include car mechanics in this as I have heard this story many times and on no occassion were any of my stations at fault

Edited December 30, 2009 by cynic09

[pompeyfaith]

you could alway take a fuel can to the pump u used and draw the minimum out and take home to compare it to the sample u have from your tank just remember to dispose of carefully at your local amenity site

[wybmadiity]

Ah that reminds me of something Pompey.

 

Two days after fuelling I did just that. Seemed to be just petrol, however on repairer's advice put some in a jam jar and left it to settle. Now a definite separation on bottom of jar, I would say half an inch conpared to about 5 inches of petrol.

 

I did tell garage about this at the time. So I'm presuming should also give TS a sample of this, still have a gallon can.

[cynic09]

Please don't go taking your own samples. TS have the equipment, the experience and the legal right to shut down the station. You don't.

I'm making the assumption that it was an oil company filling station here. Supermarkets tend to be different beasts entirely

[cynic09]

Ok since you done it already...........its freezing outside.........leave the jar outside with the top off but under cover, mark the level.........petrol evaporates, you have to heat derv

[wybmadiity]

Well I obviously can't shut them down cynic, but I took more fuel as the filling station would not take my complaint unless it was made to the manager which was 5 days later. And I will leave it in the garage and see what happens.

 

Should I ask what the difference is between oil company and supermarket?

[cynic09]

The terminal the station draws it's fuel from is also required to keep detailed records of what fuel was delivered where. TS also have access to these. Should the fault turn out to be in the fuel it is far easier to establish than some cock and bull story from a mechanic.

It's always in the stations interest to investigate, since it could indicate a very expensive problem

[wybmadiity]

OK thanks. Well was a supermarket so not sure where that leaves me, but thanks for the help.

[cynic09]

Well I obviously can't shut them down cynic, but I took more fuel as the filling station would not take my complaint unless it was made to the manager which was 5 days later. And I will leave it in the garage and see what happens.

 

Should I ask what the difference is between oil company and supermarket?

!

 

 

Probably not since I'm sure there are a lot of highly trained staff in supermarkets too.

However where I live a certain supermarket took it's "every little helps" slogan a bit far. Same issue you may have, shut a main road for two hours!

The ordinary staff may not be able to help, wetstock management is a bit beyond minimum wage that the low margins force you to pay them. Average company manager might not be much better but he will have a boss

There are many flavours of filling station I'm afraid. Hence TS are the people. And they do have the power to shut down a station there and then............always make em a coffee

[Crapstone]

Any samples you have taken won't and can't be used for testing. I just wonder why you have left it so long and agreed to the repairs if you were so sure it was a fuel problem? I don't think you are going to get anywhere with this but it's worth a try and I never say never.

 

One of our local stations had contaminated fuel and it took only hours for hundreds of complaints to come through.

[Conniff]

Ah that reminds me of something Pompey.

 

Two days after fuelling I did just that. Seemed to be just petrol, however on repairer's advice put some in a jam jar and left it to settle. Now a definite separation on bottom of jar, I would say half an inch conpared to about 5 inches of petrol.

 

I did tell garage about this at the time. So I'm presuming should also give TS a sample of this, still have a gallon can.

 

Half an inch of diesel to five inches of petrol. You have definately been ripped off, that's no different than a couple of shots of Redex, and would just give a bit of smoke. It's certainly not 'filling' the tank with diesel.

[cynic09]

The level of knoledge is on average poorer within the supermarket chains than the oil company sites, retail fuel isn't thier core business and is frequently treated as the poor relation with regard to staffing.

They are still licenced however and subject to the same controls.

However since they tend to have more customers I'd suggest you would expect far more complaints/breakdowns than I explained earlier.

As I said, I witnessed a supermarket close down a main road with blocked cars by crossing over a delivery. Cross overs are rare but often spectacular and usually reach the press, they never ever cause one car to break down. But Trading Standards will confirm if the station is responsible

[cynic09]

Carpet, your point 3 while possible would never be noticeable by a customer, far too dilute.

To cause damage to a car would require the concentration of the wrong fuel to be very high. 20 or 30 litres in a 20000 litre tank is negligable, supermarkets tend to keep thier tanks pretty full since they have a far less volatile price structure from the oil companies.

You are spot on that TS do this all the time, and, as I've said, is the way to progress the matter

[wybmadiity]

Conniff,

 

Half an inch of diesel in five inches of petrol was a sample that was taken two days after the event, after the tank had already been refilled. The fuel that was removed from my car was almost entirely diesel.

 

Thanks everyone

[Conniff]

If that is the case and you have proof then stop flapping around and go and do something about it.

Have you been to trading standards?

Have you written a letter of complaint to the filling station by recorded delivery?

Have you sent a sample of what came out of your tank for analysis?

Have you got a signed and stamped affidavit from the man who emptied the tank?

Have any other motorists had the same thing happen to them?

 

What date is 'shortly before Christmas'?

Edited December 30, 2009 by Conniff

[cynic09]

Send letters of complaint if you wish, Royal mail needs the profit.

The ONLY way to progress this complaint is via trading standards. Petrol retailing is licenced. The fellow who is god almighty in this industry is known as the petroleum officer...........you'll find this fellow at your local trading standards office

[wybmadiity]

Thanks Conniff, the reason I'm here is not because I'm flapping, but needing to know the proper way to go about things.

 

It has been reported to TS this morning.

 

The date was 16th December. As I already said, garage refused to take a complaint before Monday 21st December. Have written to garage's insurance company stating Sale of Goods Act and claiming consequential losses, giving 14 days for payment else legal action as advised by legal helpline. Repair manager willing to make affidavit although not done as yet, but can do that tomorrow.

 

As to how to send a sample of drained fuel for analysis, not a clue as to how I go about that, help someone? Also problem with that is limited funds as already explained. This has meant I can't pay my rent this month so things pretty dire to say the least.

 

As for other people complaining, apparently not, although whether that is accurate or not I have no idea.

[Conniff]

You wopnt get the insurance co to work that fast. They will want to do their own test and see your car, the parts that were replaced and the fuel claimed to have been drained from it.

 

Cynic, it is at least protocol to send letters to the offending station, so it is not giving money to the RM. It makes the complaint official.