Appealed against penalty fair - but still have to pay "admin" charge

[MartinPorter]

Good morning all

 

 

I successfully appealed against a penalty fair issued to me by Southern Railways. They took over 6 weeks to respond to my letter of appeal, but found in my favour.

The problem is, that RPSS who collect the penalty fairs , say that I am liable for a £20 ADMIN charge for late payment of the penalty fair? But they found in my favour?!

(they are also threatening criminal proceedings)

 

In any other appeals process, the clock normally stops during the appeal, and you would not have to pay a penalty fair first, then get it refunded if you win?

 

Any advice?

 

Regards

 

Martin

 

 

[The London Travel Watch Organisation, who looks at complaints against RPSS, have said they have repeatedly asked RPSS why the behave like this – but RPSS’s answer is that they can charge the admin fee, as it states on the letter any late payment will be subject to one.

 

 

Here below is the email I sent to London Travel Watch, which details the times/events, if it helps:]

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I would like to make a complaint against the Revenue Protection Support Services (RPSS) and/or the Appeals service.

 

On 2 November 2009, I travelled from Upper Warlingham to London Victoria. I arrived well in advance of the train being due, but due to problems with the automatic ticket machine and a lengthy queue in the ticket office, I had to board the train without a ticket. Subsequently, I received a penalty fair notice at London Victoria.

 

I wrote to the RPSS (please find a copy of the letter attached), to appeal. The letter was sent on the 7 November 2009, within the 14 day appeal time window.

 

I did not receive a reply regarding my appeal but on 3rd December 2009 I received a first demand for payment (£20). This was past the 14 days of which a reply should have been received.

 

In response to this, I rang the telephone number on the letter that evening and spoke to a gentleman named Raj (he did not give a surname) who said that RPSS had received my appeal letter and were still considering my appeal. I enquired as to why RPSS were invoicing me for the cost of the penalty when the appeal was still open and Raj said that he couldn’t answer any questions and I would have to write again. I mentioned that I had previously written a letter with no response. He then suggested that I fill out the online contact form, as he agreed that writing had not elicited a response to my appeal.

 

I tried to complete the online form with much difficulty (as the online form would not accept my reference number), the website informed me that an appeal had already been logged, thus I was not able to send a message.

 

 

 

 

I then rang Raj back and asked to speak to a manager. He said there were no managers available at that time , but promised that Mr Peter Smith, a manager, would ring me back the next day.

 

No call materialised on the 4th December.

 

Still no letter had arrived from RPSS, but yesterday, the 17th December, I received a final payment demand from them, with a threat of criminal proceedings. The amount due then increased to £35.

I rang RPSS again and asked the same following questions:

 

· Why hadn’t I received any correspondence regarding my appeal?

· Why hadn’t anyone rang me, as promised, on the 4th of December?

 

This time I spoke to someone who seemed fairly knowledgeable. She said that a response letter was in the process of being sent and should arrive by the 18th December (it did today). The Appeals service (who are apparently a separate entity from RPSS, but that isn’t clear on any of the correspondence) had upheld my appeal and had effectively negated the £20 penalty fair.

 

However, because I didn’t pay the penalty fair during the appeal, I am now liable for a £20 admin charge!

 

This is absolutely outrageous!

 

Why is it that RPSS don’t have to respond back within the 14 days, after they received my letter? Especially when I only have 14 days to appeal?

 

Why, during an appeal do you have to pay the charge?

 

I feel that because of the lack of response from the RPSS/Appeals service, and the way in which it is difficult to speak to anyone (and letters ignored), I have fallen foul of the small print that says that I have to pay an admin charge.

 

Also, why is the admin charge £20?

 

I will wait your response.

[Old-CodJA]

You can either ignore it completely or, write to RPSS advising that you have no intention of financing their operation given that the Rail Company who engage them have found your complaint justified and that you have no case to answer nor penalty to pay.

 

Make sure that you post your letter in the largest envelope that you can find and do make sure that you 'forget' to put any stamp on it.

 

Perhaps if RPSS find themselves paying excess postal charges to receive delivery of everyone's letters telling them politely to take a 'running-jump', it will eventually convince them that it isn't good policy.

 

They could attempt to issue a County Court Summons as their charges are a civil matter, but they have to pay upfront to do that and with no likelihood that any Court is going to order you to pay their charge for writing to you about a penalty that has been cancelled by the issuer I don't see that happening, do you??

 

You don't owe Southern Trains anything and RPSS only have a brief to collect payment for the train company. A 'late' payment cannot be due if the payment that was demanded and deemed late by a third party has been cancelled by the company who made the original demand.

 

Happy Christmas

Edited December 22, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[MartinPorter]

Thanks you Old-Codja and indeed jkdd77 , who PM'd me.

 

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is a [problem], as they are driving me mad! another demand came through a few days ago, with the threat of criminal proceedings, and of course the fee is now £40..

 

 

 

I'm thinking of writing to tell them to stop harassing me. would this be along the right lines, do you all think?

 

Dear Patrick O’connor

 

 

I am writing to advise you that I will not be paying the admin fee for the above case.

I have sought legal advice and have been advised that indeed you are committing an offence yourselves, by sending harassing letters.

 

If you continue to send any more harassing letters, I will be reporting you to the police for committing the following offence:

 

 

Section 40 (1)(b) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970:

 

 

*40. *

Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

 

(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—

(b)

falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

 

 

 

 

I am hereby giving you 7 days in which to make a response to this letter, before I take this issue further.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

Martin Porter

[RPI]

he he, top marks! best of luck!

[Zamzara]

Even if you hadn't won an appeal, I can't see anything in the legislation to allow for an admin fee to be charged or for any increase in the charge:

 

Railways Act 1993 (c. 43)

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994

[noddyaccount]

Even if you hadn't won an appeal, I can't see anything in the legislation to allow for an admin fee to be charged or for any increase in the charge:

 

Railways Act 1993 (c. 43)

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994

 

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