redundancy issue??

[teaboy2]

2 weeks discretionary pay?? like to know why they thing its descretionary. Anyway for me to be certain can you tell me how long you have worked for the company again because you are legally entitled to the following redundancy pay:

 

 

162 Amount of a redundancy payment

 

(1) The amount of a redundancy payment shall be calculated by—

(a) determining the period, ending with the relevant date, during which the employee has been continuously employed,

(b) reckoning backwards from the end of that period the number of years of employment falling within that period, and

© allowing the appropriate amount for each of those years of employment.

(2) In subsection (1)© “the appropriate amount” means—

(a) one and a half weeks' pay for a year of employment in which the employee was not below the age of forty-one,

(b) one week’s pay for a year of employment (not within paragraph (a)) in which he was not below the age of twenty-two, and

© half a week’s pay for each year of employment not within paragraph (a) or (b).

 

 

In other words you are entitled to atleast 1 weeks pay for each year you have worked their if you are older then twenty two but younger then forty one, of if over the age of forty one and younger than sixty four your entitled to 1 and a half weeks pay for each year you have been their. So below is an examle of what you should be paid redundancy wise in terms of how many weeks pay if you had worked 10 years.

 

Just read your first post and noticed you said you been there for 6 years so in red is what you would actually be entitled to in redundancy pay by law

 

Between 22 - 40 years old

 

 

10 years = 10 weeks pay should be paid as redundancy along with any other contractual entitlements such as accrued holidays not yet taken, And the pay for time worked in hand at the start of your employment (a lot of comapnies forget about that and so do alot of employees).

 

6 years = 6 weeks pay

 

Between 41 - 63 years old

 

 

10 years = 15 weeks.

 

6 years = 9 weeks pay

 

So they can **** off with their 2 weeks discrentionary pay, no wonder they wanted you to sign away your rights if thats all they planned paying you was just 2 weeks redundancy. Liked to know how the **** their HR people got their jobs cos they sure no **** all about how to do their jobs, which is to ensure the company sticks within the law.

 

Over 64 years old and the following shall apply.

 

 

Section 162 continued from above:

 

(4) Where the relevant date is after the sixty-fourth anniversary of the day of the employee’s birth, the amount arrived at under subsections (1) to (3) shall be reduced by the appropriate fraction.

(5) In subsection (4) “the appropriate fraction” means the fraction of which—

(a) the numerator is the number of whole months reckoned from the sixty-fourth anniversary of the day of the employee’s birth in the period beginning with that anniversary and ending with the relevant date, and

(b) the denominator is twelve.

 

 

heres alink to the whole employment act for you to have a look through and compare what your entitled to in the act which is law, to what it is your actually being offered.

 

 

 

Employment Rights Act 1996 (c. 18)

 

with regards to your question regarding weather they will keep the additional 2 weeks discretionary pay from you if you dont sign. answer is.... Not a cat in house chance, as your entitled to those 2 weeks plus a further 4 weeks or 6 weeks if your 41 and over BY LAW so its not upto their discrition its a legal entitlement. If they dont pay you the above amount of weeks in pay then they are in breach of the employment rights act 1996 c18 section 162 subsection 2. Off course they can add a discrentionary 2 weeks pay ontop of what you are legally entitled to receive as then that would be discrentionary. But from what you have said it sounds like they only going to pay you upto the 24th and then a discretionary 2 weeks pay ontop. basically they should pay you all the way upto 20th jan 2010 plus accured holidays not taken and the week/month you worked in hand at start of your employment if you are between 22 and 40. And same if your 41 only theyd have to pay you up to 10th of feb 2010 instead of 20th jan 2010. that way you will recieve the full amount of weeks your entitled to as part of your redundacy pay.

 

what they are thinking is because they took over the company a year ago (or whenever you sid it was) they are thinking you have only been employed with them for that year only. but really when they bought the company they also bought your emplyment contract and as such they have no choice but to honour your contract that was between you and the original company as when they bought the original company they bought all the rights and liabilitys of the original company which includes contractual obligations. So sounds like they trying to take advantage of yours and the others facing redundancies lack of knowlegde in law in order to get away with it. but since your fighting it they getting desperate hence the compromise agreement that to be honest was all one sided and totally in their favour.

Edited December 17, 2009 by teaboy2
added additional comments in red to match actual circumstances

[shuggler]

thank you once again your a star;) they seem to have got that bit right. The appeal i have to write was to be sent to _____ no details just a name no contact address, no phone number, so E-mailed for them to send info, so they sent what i was looking for, and ALSO:eek: two other people's details who were also in the redundancy pool, dont think they would be too chuffed if they knew their personal details were being posted to someone else, so much for data protection. Also went to cab today got a meeting tomorrow with someone thats clued up on employment law to help with my appeal letter and other stuff, will keep you up to date with results. cheers and thanks very much.

[teaboy2]

Your welcome, and i hope everything works out well for you. will keep an eye on the thread for your updates too.

[shuggler]

Hi TB2 i received details of redundancy payment this morning which, incidently was paid into my bank account yesterday although my appeal was only sent by e-mail yesterday and as yet had no reply, What they have paid me, 9 weeks basic statuatory amount + 6 weeks statuatory notice peroid and PILON payment of £1,249.60 which i dont have any details about. And a copy of my P45.so would you say that is correct, dont know if they have paid me my weeks lying time from when i started at first but this gave me an excuse to stall signing that letter, as CAB were not much help yesterday I'am going to contact a no win no fee lawyer on monday that specialise in employment law. Also got a letter about the last meeting i had with them, in which they have said their nurse told them i do not have a case for DDA, its not what she said to me she slated HR when i spoke to her, so think i will give her a call on monday to ask what she did infact say, although i can understand if she does not want to comment.Oh by the way my age is 57

[teaboy2]

Hi Shuggler

 

PILON is as discribed below

 

Payment in lieu

 

Employers who don't need employees to work out all or part of the notice period can make a payment in lieu of notice, if the contract allows for it or the employee is willing to accept it. This should cover all the benefits the employee would otherwise have enjoyed during the notice period, unless the contract provides otherwise, including pay, bonuses, accrued holiday etc.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like they have met all your satutory requirements, but not paid you for the time you worked in hand so you would need to contact them and ask them to clarify where your pay for the time in hand you worked when you fist started employment with them.

 

 

with regards to the letter, you dont have to sign infact it be the worse thing you could ever do as they only gave you it to sign to cover their own backs so you cant take tribunal or court action against them.

 

 

taken from business link -

 

 

 

Compromise agreements

 

A compromise agreement is a single agreement setting out the financial and all other terms on which the employment relationship will end. In order for the compromise agreement to be valid, certain formalities must be fulfilled and the employee is then unable subsequently to make a claim in the courts or an employment tribunal.

Compromise agreements can be useful in circumstances where the employer wishes to avoid the publicity, costs or uncertain outcome of a tribunal or court case.

[silverbird_9t9]

Given that a compromise agreement requires you to sign away statutory rights, I believe that unless you have been given independent legal advice it is unenforcable. Without such a signed agreement from you, you are still entitled to pursue a claim against them in an employment tribunal.

[teaboy2]

Given that a compromise agreement requires you to sign away statutory rights, I believe that unless you have been given independent legal advice it is unenforcable. Without such a signed agreement from you, you are still entitled to pursue a claim against them in an employment tribunal.

 

thats true, you need your solicitor present at signing as such the company should include in the agreement that they will pay such legal fees.

 

but you should not sign it anyway as you only stand to lose and not benefit from the agreement.

[silverbird_9t9]

Regardless of what the OH person says you may also have protection because of your CTS. This link has some information that may be useful

 

http://www.rsi.org.uk/pdf/disclosing_a_disability_rsi_.pdf

[shuggler]

Thanks for the info folks, got an e-mail today said they have received my appeal and have been in touch with wages dept about my week in hand, and they are now looking at dealing with the appeal in jan 7-9th. Also phoned a lawyer today who does a no win no fee dealing with employment law gave him details of what has happend and asked me to contact him again once the appeal has been dealt with.So will enjoy Xmas and new year and come back fighting, all the best to you and yours for the festive season and thank you very much for all who took the time to help with my posts:)

[teaboy2]

Hi shuggler i look forward to hearing how things turn out, hopefully they turn out in your favour. And by the way, if you are offered you job back as a result, you still get to keep your redundancy pay as youd simply start back on a freash new contract i.e clean sheet. So you still get to keep the benefits of being made redundant either way.

[shuggler]

latest update, they want me to travel down next week for the final appeal meeting which is about 650 miles give or take, so i made them aware that i would only travel down if they were willing to pay for travel and accomodaction costs and if the road conditions were safe to do so otherwise i would be happy to conduct the meeting over the phone. But they sort of implied that if i dont attend in person i would be wavering my right to an appeal meeting, i said that they were being unreasonnable expecting me to travel for that length of time and distance and that i was not giving up any rights to an appeal. So they went and spoke to someone higher up and said they would pay for me to travel down using my own car at 40p a mile and reimburse me for overnight stay. To be honest i would prefer they pay me upfront as there expense system takes for ever trying to get your money back and they have not said how they would infact pay for the expenses, and would i be liable for tax on this payment.

[silverbird_9t9]

I would be inclined to speak to ACAS again. To expect you to travel that kind of distance, especially in current conditions is unreasonable and clearly designed to deter you from following through with your appeal. Have you checked your home insurance etc for legal expenses cover?

[monkeychicken]

Just a bit about no win no fee people - general advice is to avoid them (last resort). Try to get support from union/ home insurace. If you cant, you can usually expect emplyer to pay your legal costs for the compromise agreement.

[shuggler]

Thanks for the comments folks, i have sent them an e-mail asking them to arrange and pay for the travel costs etc in advance of the meeting as i no longer have any wages coming in, and because of the weather it would not be safe to travel that distance by car. I do have legal cover on my home insurance but its a new policy and legal cover does not start for three months so will be end of feb before it kicks in, by the way the 650 miles is there and back. Will wait and see what sort of reply I get. Also forgot to mention my freind who got made redundant at the same as me has to go to this meeting as well and they assumed that i would bring him down in my car cheeky BA_____S

[teaboy2]

it be interesting to hear what they have to say to you at the meeting. Personally i think the fact you didnt sign the compromise agreement has them worried to be honest. But id still be prepared for anything though and i certainly would not agree to signing anything without getting advice on it first.

[shuggler]

I will not be signing anything Teaboy2 without having it checked out first as you say, they cant even get their facts or dates right when they recently sent me an updated reissued letter still waiting on a reply from that, which i think will go in my favour should it go to tribunal. They have made quite a few mistakes along the way and i try to keep all e-mails and letter's so they can not deny anything, it seems after this meeting it will take them another five days to make a decision:rolleyes:

[honeybee13]

Their lives move fast, don't they? Are they as laid back when they want something from you? [i think I know the answer.]

[shuggler]

Well thats my final appeal over with, in the end got them to arrange and pay for everything in advance, hired car accomodation meals etc as originally they wanted me to pay for the lot and they would reimburse me once they got receipts:rolleyes: yeah pull the other one mate. So will now have to wait the five days for them to decide what happens next will keep you posted.

[teaboy2]

yeah bet they thought you wouldnt see that one coming when they said they wouldnt pay till they had reciepts, which we all know was a lie to get out of paying lol

[shuggler]

Well five days have been and gone, got a phone call on friday to say they were still looking into the comments i raised and they would reply early this week:rolleyes:

[teaboy2]

fingers crossed you get a good result, if not, its the next step.

[shuggler]

Got another phone call this morning to ask if i would consider doing a conference call so they could explain the result of the final meeting, I aggreed and they called me back. They explained they had looked through all the issue's i had raised and surprise surprise, they still think they have acted fairly and lawfully, sorry but our decision still stands that you are to be made redundant which took about ten mins.

 

As for the DDA they spoke to their company doctor who has many years experience in passing people fit for work, and have also consulted the company lawyers who both confirm they have acted fairly in there decision, really scared now:rolleyes:, I have asked them to put their decision in writing, so looks like its going to be heading for a tribunal, am i right in saying you have 3 months from today's date to launch ETB? as i have now exhausted all the appeal meetings.

[teaboy2]

Sorry you didnt get the result you wanted, but glad to see your not giving up.

 

Yes you have 3 months minus 1 day to put your claim in.

[shuggler]

Thank you Teaboy2, what a long winded way to make someone redundant it's took them 5 months since they first sent out letters warning of this. But as i have been told by some of the guy's still employed there you really dont want to come back, they have given out new contracts to be signed within 30 days, they have laid everyone off on £21.50 a day but want them to jump ASAP if and when a job comes up so basicly on standby but no standby rate, closing down the building and moving the lot (minus some employees) over to where their place is, what a nightmare seems they only bought the company to secure the contracts the original company had and then wind it up as they are now in the process of rebranding the name. Oh well onwards and upwards as they say, now the battle begins will keep you posted Tboy and thanks very much for your help:)

[shuggler]

Update on this post, been a long time i know but my tribunal is now set for first week in august, will let you know the outcome soon after:)