Stat demand - ARROW GLOBAL LLC ***WON + COSTS ***

[the_shadow]

Thanks 42man for responding so quickly. Comments noted about copy documents as evidence.

SD was served last Weds 1/7 so I'll need to work on costs next. What's the procedure for submitting them? Is there a special form?

Also, can you give me a rough idea as to what would be reasonable to claim?

Thanks.

Lorri

 

Dont think it needs to be on any form, it just needs to be sent to the court to attach to your case file, I've copied this from another SD thread at some point so fraid cant credit the original author.

 

Edit: 42Man will confirm but I believe you should serve these on the other side as well as the court, send to the other side recorded delivery or SD if you can.

 

 

Costs For Set Aside Application Case No xxx

xx Court xxx April 2008

 

Rate Claimed Litigant in Person rate of £9.25 / hour

Travelling Costs HMRC Approved Mileage Rate of 40p / mile

 

1) Time spent identifying and understanding relevant legislation.

Time spent identifying and understanding relevant case law.

Time spent preparing affidavit and skeleton argument.

 

18 hours £166.50

 

2) Time spent communicating with Respondant and swearing affadavit

 

2 hours £ 18.50

 

3) Loss of day’s wages for attending court on xxx April 2008 £ 80.00

 

4) Travelling costs for return journey to court 2 x 20 miles £ 16.00

 

Total £281.00

 

Notes

 

Before undertaking this myself I approached a solicitor to handle this. I was given an estimate of 3 to 6 hours at £170/hour to prepare the Application (£510-£1020) plus extra for attending the court.

 

I respectfully request that the court give consideration to awarding these costs on the indemnity basis or, in the alternative, on the standard basis as I believe, in any case, that they have been proportionately and reasonably incurred and/or are of a proportionate and reasonable amount.

 

In support of this request, I would also like to refer the court’s attention to the authority of the High Court in the case of:-

 

Hammonds (a firm) v Pro-Fit USA Ltd [2007] EWHC 1998 (Ch)

 

In this case, Mr Justice Warren confirmed that it was usual for an indemnity award to be made:-

 

27 So far as disputed debts are concerned, the practice of the court is not to allow the insolvency regime to be used as a method of debt collection where there is a bona fide and substantial dispute as to the debt. Save in exceptional cases, the court will dismiss a petition based on such a debt (usually with an indemnity costs order against the petitioner).

 

S.

[42man]

We'll leave the costs for the moment as they do not have to be submitted until 24 hours before the hearing....

[lorri-croft]

Hi all, Just update on progress.

 

Visit made to County Court today (the one who deals with Bankruptcy, not the one on the SD!).

 

Took 6.4, Affadavit 6.5, original SD and copy letters re cca request/s, proof of posting/delivery. Hubby swore affadavit (at little 'cubby-hole' window).

 

Told Judge will look at it within the next few days and make a decision.

 

Am I right in presuming the Judge will either;

a) Set aside from the affadavit.

or

b) Set a hearing date for both parties to attend.

or

c) Advise no grounds for set aside. (hopefully not this one)

 

If that is correct, I've been informed you to submit costs 24 hours before a hearing but if a) applies when do you submit costs?

 

Would just like to be clear on timescales.(SD was issued 1st July.)

[lorri-croft]

Bump post #58

Can anyone enlighten me??

[lilly white]

you will be sent a date for hearing for the set aside

 

good luck,

 

 

just wait now

[Docman]

With the work in the courts, it could be 2/3 weeks before you hear anything.

[lorri-croft]

Just a quick post re update.

 

• Letter received from Arrow Global LLC Litigation Unit, Manchester acknowledging receipt of CCA request sent special delivery recently.
  

Say they will ' put matter on hold whilst they investigate...no further action will be taken whilst investigation remains outstanding

and all time periods referred to in our previous correspondence are suspended until further notice.' They 'anticipate being able to provide further information within 35 days of the date of this letter'.

 

I don't want to sound cynical, but I don't trust them at all so I presume we should still await Court decision re set-aside request which was put in last week?

[the_shadow]

Just a quick post re update.

 

• Letter received from Arrow Global LLC Litigation Unit, Manchester acknowledging receipt of CCA request sent special delivery recently.
  

Say they will ' put matter on hold whilst they investigate...no further action will be taken whilst investigation remains outstanding

and all time periods referred to in our previous correspondence are suspended until further notice.' They 'anticipate being able to provide further information within 35 days of the date of this letter'.

 

I don't want to sound cynical, but I don't trust them at all so I presume we should still await Court decision re set-aside request which was put in last week?

 

well the court date will probably come before the end of 35 days but I'm sure the actual hearing will be for after.....so we shall see.

 

In any event the court date has been applied for and that supercedes whatever they may say... they should have ensured they had the relevant documentation prior to issuing a stat demand.

 

Obviously they are wary of receiving costs when you set it aside ;-)

 

S.

[lorri-croft]

We've now received papers from the court and hearing for set aside is 29th SEPTEMBER. (plenty of time ahead!)

 

We were sent 2 copies of all the papers we submitted (form 6.4 with hearing date, affadavit, attached proof of cca request etc..)

 

What is next step? Should we:

 

a. Send one of these complete 'bundles' to Arrow.

b. Send just the 6.4 to Arrow with hearing date on.

c. Send nothing to them.

 

They need to know about hearing (we haven't yet given them any indication of our intent to apply for set aside) and we're not sure if Court advises them or we do.

 

Anyone??

 

PS. We didn't get anything else, apart from the photocopies.

 

Bump re post #64. Any answer??

 

Plus, should we have received insuctions from the Judge (looking at other posts seems others in SD situation have)?

[42man]

The court will also write to them with your affadavit and defence.....you will attend on the day, and put your case forward, you may well hear from Arrow in the meantime....your costs need to be submitted 24 hours before the hearing.....

[lorri-croft]

Thanks 42man for coming back to me above.

 

I'll post again if any response received from Arrow prior to hearing, or if SAR from OC received in meantime and it highlights anything of interest.

[Mightyacorn]

My thread for Transcom/Arrow Global/Copes :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/211838-transcom-arrow-global-copes.html#post2323866

[lorri-croft]

Hi all,

 

Just received letter in post today from Arrow Global following receipt of our SD set aside paperwork/hearing date. Included a CONSENT ORDER with it. (Both scanned below).

 

(Just an aside...Court did not advise them directly of hearing. I checked with Court and they had sent sent two photocopy 'bundles' mentioned above for us to send one to AG to advise them ourselves.)

 

 

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/shaunieman/DCA/CCF01082009_00000.jpg

 

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/shaunieman/DCA/CCF01082009_00001.jpg

 

 

Just out of interest, received response from Barclaycard (original Monument owners) re SAR request.

 

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/shaunieman/DCA/CCF01082009_00002.jpg

 

 

I presume that this means there are NO records available from OC re original debt ('unknown - ex Monument account').

 

 

• What does the Consent Order request mean? I presume they don't want to proceed but don't want costs against them? What do you recommend my next course of action?
  

I've spent a lot of time on this and don't see why I should agree. However, my main objective is to get some closure to this issue. I don't want them 'trying it on again' as, although it seems they won't have a 'leg to stand on', it's the inconvenience of the time and effort you have to spend stopping them.

 

Ideally, I'd like something from them in writing that the 'alleged debt' is closed, plus, entries on CRA removed (got one from AG and one from Compucredit for the same debt PLUS one from Compucredit for someone elses' SETTLED debt!)

 

Look forward to some responses.

Lorri

Edited August 4, 2009 by lorri-croft

[nicklea]

What does the Consent Order request mean? I presume they don't want to proceed but don't want costs against them? What do you recommend my next course of action?

 

You're right, they don't want any costs. It's up to you what you do - there is nothing to stop you going ahead with the hearing and claiming your costs.

 

I've spent a lot of time on this and don't see why I should agree. However, my main objective is to get some closure to this issue. I don't want them 'trying it on again' as, although it seems they won't have a 'leg to stand on', it's the inconvenience of the time and effort you have to spend stopping them.

 

Ideally, I'd like something from them in writing that the 'alleged debt' is closed, plus, entries on CRA removed (got one from AG and one from Compucredit for the same debt PLUS one from Compucredit for someone elses' SETTLED debt!)

 

To do this you either need to wait for them to take you to court or you will need to take them to court and get the agreement declared to be unenforceable

[the_shadow]

Hi Lorri,

 

If you dont or havent agreed to the consent order then ignore it, its non-binding unless both parties agree AND the court rubber stamps it. They are admitting they dont have a case but dont want you claiming anything back off them

 

If when you attend the court and the judge asks why you have not agreed to the consent order (if they disclose it to the judge prior to the hearing) have your costs ready to show him/her the amount of time that you have spent PRIOR to the hearing working on this and that even though this is using valuable court time up it is due to the defendants vexatious litigation against you that has forced you to apply for this set-aside.

 

S.

[lilly white]

well of course it is to you.

 

.

 

The only thing i would add is why did they issue the statuary demand in the 1st place.

 

The point is that if you had not stood your ground they would have continue to used any weapon they could, including court and maybe in the future they will, it is this, people must make a stand.

 

 

IMHO. TAKE THIS TO COURT

Edited August 1, 2009 by lilly white

[Docman]

I agree with LW. Go for as much as you can in costs against AG. Explain to the judge that this whole SD exercise is an abuse of the court process and the Insolvency Rules.

 

If AG had an enforceable claim, they should have issued proceedings NOT started the SD and bankrupcy process.

[NitrousOxide]

Hi,

Same as my friends Lori. If you want costs as has been advised just ignore it.

They asked us to put in writing what we didn't agree to and why.

[42man]

I'd go to the court and show the judge how angry you are at being presented with a demand in the first place, and claim your full COSTS.....show the judge the recent OFT restrictions placed on 1st Credit too....i'd say with no evidence it is an unlawful and vexatious demand, the letter from Barclays is damning for them !!! Ask the judge to make you an indemnity award based on the Pro Fit case and pay your full costs and also request the judge remove all adverse data placed on your files....!!

 

The Office of Fair Trading: OFT imposes requirements on 1st Credit over debt collection practices

[NitrousOxide]

Did you put the relevent law in your affi about not using the stat demand as a way of debt collection? It will now stick out like a sore thumb

[lorri-croft]

Thanks for so many of you posting your thoughts/opinions following my post #68.

 

Hubby has decided to ignore CONSENT ORDER sent by Arrow Global and, go to the hearing to see what the Judge says and hopefully, ask for costs.

 

You're all right. Why should they be allowed to get away with this. I'm going to prepare a complaint to the OFT in this respect (as 42man previously suggested) as, the more they receive, the more likely it is that they will have restrictions imposed on them in the future.

 

• Is there a special form to make a complaint on, or is a letter ok? Can anyone tell me?
  

I now know costs need to be filed just before the hearing, so I will work on them nearer the time (will run them by here beforehand).

 

• Nitrous Oxide
  

You've been helping friends through the same situation with the same 'protagonists' and you said 'They asked us to put in writing what we didn't agree to and why. ' Was that after they issued a Consent Order? Did you initially ignore it or respond saying 'no agreement'?

• 42man
  

You said you'd ask the Judge to remove adverse data placed on file. Is that something a Judge can rule? If so, is it only AG's entry? Or could it also be Compucredit entry?

• Anyone?
  

A seperate issue, with regard to another CRA entry for a Compucredit 'settled' debt that isn't my hubby's (equifax shows last 4 digits of card no), what's the process for getting that removed?

Once again, thanks all for your support. Couldn't do this without you all.

 

Lorri x

[the_shadow]

 

• Is there a special form to make a complaint on, or is a letter ok? Can anyone tell me?
  

 

Ordinary letter stating out the details is fine.

 

A seperate issue, with regard to another CRA entry for a Compucredit 'settled' debt that isn't my hubby's (equifax shows last 4 digits of card no), what's the process for getting that removed?

 

You need to send a strongly worded letter to the CRA's telling them that incorrect data is being reported on your credit file and tell them to remove it or you will seek redress through the courts for the damage to your credit worthiness this has caused . They will have to write to the creditor to confirm so wont be quick but stick to your guns and they should remove it.

 

S.

[martin g]

Evening all,

 

I've just picked this thread up and the same thing happened to me, same letter, same date, same signatory and the same back down.

I have already been thro a stat. demand from Arrow Global at the end of last year with Marlin. I used a solicitor as my wife was very concerned about the case which I thought was simple- no enforcable CCA, no statements, nothing at all. The judge took about 3 minutes to kick their arse and awarded all my legal cost, in total £1,500 against Marlin.

 

I was amazed when they issued a new stat. demand in June so dusted of the defence, asked for strict proof of CCA, Statement of account etc, and nothing was filed until the consent order popped up in the post.

 

Anyway I decided to drop the consent order into my court today and they wanted £40 to process it. I rang the girl at Arrow Global who said return it and they will file and pay the charge, this I have done, but, as I trust them it the least, I will visiting the court at the time of the hearing to check.

 

I assumed that the debt had been written off, foolish I know, after the first hearing. This time a long letter is going to Arrow Global and a compliant to Manchester TS and the OFT.

 

Anyway, do I detect a pattern like 1st Credit, and if you get a consent Order remember someone has to pay £40 to the court.

[Inspace55]

Evening all,

 

 

I was amazed when they issued a new stat. demand in June so dusted of the defence, asked for strict proof of CCA, Statement of account etc, and nothing was filed until the consent order popped up in the post.

 

Anyway I decided to drop the consent order into my court today and they wanted £40 to process it. I rang the girl at Arrow Global who said return it and they will file and pay the charge, this I have done, but, as I trust them it the least, I will visiting the court at the time of the hearing to check.

 

I assumed that the debt had been written off, foolish I know, after the first hearing. This time a long letter is going to Arrow Global and a compliant to Manchester TS and the OFT.

 

Anyway, do I detect a pattern like 1st Credit, and if you get a consent Order remember someone has to pay £40 to the court.

 

So if you sign and send the consent order into the court do they expect you to cough up the £40?.

[42man]

Some judges will look at the issue of adverse data on your credit files, and some won't, I remember a case where the judge ordered it at the stat demand hearing, I had one judge who said it wasn't an issue that he could consider on the day.....it all depends on the judge on the day and they do vary...