Paypal witholding my money in 2 accounts

[thecookiemonster]

Me and my partner both have paypal accounts and they have limited both accounts for no reason at all, I sold a few things but not for really high amounts and the buyers received their items and everything but i class this as theft.

 

There is around £35 in one account and around £50 in the other account.

 

I think Paypal need to be taught a lesson and i will take whatever action is possible against them ro recover my money.

 

What i was wondering is how can i sue them? Also can i add interest for everyday that they are holding my money.

 

Thanks.

[andydd]

Me and my partner both have paypal accounts and they have limited both accounts for no reason at all, I sold a few things but not for really high amounts and the buyers received their items and everything but i class this as theft.

 

There is around £35 in one account and around £50 in the other account.

 

I think Paypal need to be taught a lesson and i will take whatever action is possible against them ro recover my money.

 

What i was wondering is how can i sue them? Also can i add interest for everyday that they are holding my money.

 

Thanks.

 

In Paypals T & C's (which you agree to upon signing up) it states that they can freeze your money so unfortunatly there is very little you can do.

 

Suing them would be very costly plus they are now based in Luxembourg which would further complicate matters.

 

Quite clearly the money hasnt disapeared, it will be returned to you eventually so the only real arguement is that you have lost out on some interest which unless the amount is very large is only going to amount to a few pounds.

 

Andy

[thecookiemonster]

In Paypals T & C's (which you agree to upon signing up) it states that they can freeze your money so unfortunatly there is very little you can do.

 

Suing them would be very costly plus they are now based in Luxembourg which would further complicate matters.

 

Quite clearly the money hasnt disapeared, it will be returned to you eventually so the only real arguement is that you have lost out on some interest which unless the amount is very large is only going to amount to a few pounds.

 

Andy

 

Would Paypal's terms & conditions actually stand up in court though? I don't see how anyone can hold someone's money it's just wrong, I class it as theft, I have heard about this happening a lot to other people and most people never see the money again!

 

Suing them wouldn't be that costly as i could sue them through the small claims court and this is someone i would definitely do if i knew i had a good case against them.

 

They seem to enjoy witholding people's money and stealing it!

[andydd]

Would Paypal's terms & conditions actually stand up in court though? I don't see how anyone can hold someone's money it's just wrong, I class it as theft, I have heard about this happening a lot to other people and most people never see the money again!

 

Suing them wouldn't be that costly as i could sue them through the small claims court and this is someone i would definitely do if i knew i had a good case against them.

 

They seem to enjoy witholding people's money and stealing it!

 

I couldnt say wether their T & C's would stand up in court, certainly they are reluctant to start court action to claim back money from people who they claim owe them due to fraud, they have set DCA's on me for this and they have yet to start a court claim themselves.

 

Quite clearly they are not holding your money just for kicks and I think you would have to provide some better legal arguements than its just wrong.

 

As I said before they now operate from Luxembourg so Im unsure wether you could use the online small claims system, also you would have to prove some sort of loss, Im not sure about individuals but I believe that there are businesses that have started legal action for the return of frozen money, in the states there was a big case where a charity collecting money for a hurricane relief found all its funds (many tens of $1000's) frozen for no good reason, you may like to search some of the (many !) anti paypal sites that are out there.

 

When things go wrong with Paypal they are a pain in the butt and operate in a world of own and many of their T & C's havnt been tested in court, not sure I'd want to be the first to do so though.

 

Andy

[buzby]

Since most of the reasons PayPal give for freezing an account are based on 'protection' (of the buyer or seller) you need to let them resolve whatever issue arose to case the 'freezing' of the account. If there has been a dispute raised for goods you sold, or if someone 'paid' you using a stolen CC, all these events can impact on your PayPal account - and are explained in their Help pages.

[thecookiemonster]

I sold an item on ebay recently which was working but the right hinge had broken off so i said in the auction that i would be listing it for spares/repair and it says no returns at the bottom of the screen.

 

Now the buyer is claiming that when they received the item it didn't work despite me testing it before i sent it off and it was well packed up and everything.

 

They have opened a dispute via paypal and i have disagreed with their claim but i know paypal favour buyers over sellers and this person will probably end up getting a full refund but are they entitled to one?

 

I am considering taking legal action against the buyer if they are awarded a refund on the item providing i have a case.

[gyzmo]

1. Are you acting in the course of a business or a private seller?

2. How exactly did you advertise it?

 

In the private sales, the only obligation is that goods are as described and that you have the right to sell them.

[thecookiemonster]

1. Are you acting in the course of a business or a private seller?

2. How exactly did you advertise it?

 

In the private sales, the only obligation is that goods are as described and that you have the right to sell them.

 

I am a private seller, I advertised it as working but for spares/repair and i stated that i did not want to attempt to repair it.

[buzby]

Without seeing hte listing it is hard to advise, but you've given two conflicting statements - both 'working' and 'for spares or repair'. Both are of course quite possible, but if it is sold as working, it needs to be. For 'spares or repair' then the buyer gets the unit, but not to expect it to work - if it did, then that is a bonis.

 

If you made both statements, I would expect PayPal/eBay to rule against you as the statement makes the item more desirable, and the certainty that it would be sold working. If you ONLY said it was for spares, the buyer would be unsuccessfuk as yu were not selling a 'working' product.

 

I don't think an action against the buyer to repay you would be successful in the light of this, so you can either short-stop PP decision by offering to refund the buyer if the he returns it at his own expense.

[gadgetgirl79]

Can you prove it was working when it reached the buyer? How do you know the package wasn't dropped by the courier?

 

When you sell with ebay, you need to abide by their rules. In this case, you sold something as working, and the buyer is claiming it's not. Ebay will probably side with the buyer, but to be fair, what do they have to gain by lying, as they'll have to return the item tracked delivery at their own cost. You will then have to refund the initial cost and initial postage, but do NOT have to refund the return postage.

[gemspan]

Paypal froze my account for absolutely no reason. They expected me to send the customers items of some value without having access to the money. They told me that as soon as I had positive feedback the money would be released. I told the customers what happened and they gave positive feedback without receiving the goods! Money was released but clearly abuses the feedback system.

 

FWIW Paypal do not have to have a reason to freeze an account. They do it as and when they feel like it. That's the reason I stopped using ebay and paypal. Its your money and so you are entitled to it if you have given the goods. Ask the customers to send positive feedback and see if that clears the money. They really are awful to deal with. You always get automated responses when you contact them. Best look for another auction site IMO.

 

Good luck

Gemspan

[buzby]

They many not have to disclose a reason to YOU, but I have never experienced what you described in over 6 years of extensive trading. What reason did they give you when you enquired?

[andydd]

They many not have to disclose a reason to YOU, but I have never experienced what you described in over 6 years of extensive trading. What reason did they give you when you enquired?

 

Nor have I BUT I have read many accounts of this happening, new users, businesses that suddenly have a growth in sales are 2 well documented reasons. Paypal do operate in a world of their own a lot of the time.

[thecookiemonster]

Right, this is the story..................

 

I sold a Laptop on ebay, After their payment had shown up in my bank account i arranged for a courier to collect and deliver the item.

 

3 days later the item was due to be collected by the courier but i stayed in all day and the courier never turned up, I contacted the company on the monday evening and on the tuesday and they mentioned that they might collect on the wednesday but again they never turned up, Over the past few days I have been informed by the seller that they have contacted the police and will be employing the services of a private debt collector to recover the debt.

 

He is getting very abusive and making false accusations which could be considered as slander.

 

He has accused me of having a false telephone number and also said that the police have said that as my phone number is false it is intentional deception, However i can confirm that my phone number is my skype phone number and is correct, i have bank statements and emails from Skype to confirm this.

 

I have today informed him that i will not be sending the item and will be waiting to hear from the private debt collector and/or police.

 

What are the police likely to do? As i am wondering what will happen next in this matter.

[noddyaccount]

Right, this is the story..................

 

I sold a Laptop on ebay, After their payment had shown up in my bank account i arranged for a courier to collect and deliver the item.

 

3 days later the item was due to be collected by the courier but i stayed in all day and the courier never turned up, I contacted the company on the monday evening and on the tuesday and they mentioned that they might collect on the wednesday but again they never turned up, Over the past few days I have been informed by the seller that they have contacted the police and will be employing the services of a private debt collector to recover the debt.

 

He is getting very abusive and making false accusations which could be considered as slander.

 

He has accused me of having a false telephone number and also said that the police have said that as my phone number is false it is intentional deception, However i can confirm that my phone number is my skype phone number and is correct, i have bank statements and emails from Skype to confirm this.

 

I have today informed him that i will not be sending the item and will be waiting to hear from the private debt collector and/or police.

 

What are the police likely to do? As i am wondering what will happen next in this matter.

 

What is a private debt collector , are they legal?

[PGH7447]

did you give him his money back?

[thecookiemonster]

did you give him his money back?

 

No as it was sold 10 days again and has already been spent, As i said above i booked the item for collection & delivery but the courier never arrived and i emailed them several times and they were going to come back on the wednesday but yet again they never turned up.

 

I offered to send it on monday but he informed me today that he has already contacted the police and is getting a private debt collector to recover monies owed so i said i will wait to be contacted by the debt collector and/or police and then i will sort out the matter, If the private debt collector contacts me i will offer to pay back the money in installments.

 

However today he has accused me of ripping of other ebayers when i have not and people who i have dealt with on ebay will be able to confirm this, Also he has accused me of having a false telephone number and contact information etc etc which are all false accusations, isn't that slander?

 

As i asked above what will the police do in this matter? I'm expecting them to come round but not sure whether they will or not but i will explain the situation to them once they come round to my house.

[cds]

why don't you just send the laptop end of story?

 

cds:)

[thecookiemonster]

why don't you just send the laptop end of story?

 

cds:)

 

Because he's demanding the money back rather than the actual item, Therefore I informed him that I will be having no more dealings with him until I hear from the police and/or private debt collector.

 

He has made a lot of false accusations and slanderous comments today and I am not very happy about it especially when I am being made to look the bad guy when the courier failed to turn up twice and I offered to send it him next week but he more or less refused and wanted a full refund by the end of today!

[cds]

In any auction the fall of the hammer means a contract is made, he as to pay and you have to deliver. A delay in delivery, if only short, would not constitute a breach of contract on your part nor give your customer grounds to demand a refund. Refusing to send the goods or communicate with the buyer would eventually give them a case to sue. Can't imagine the police would be interested in this nor a dca. Send the goods and apologise for the delay.

 

cds

[thecookiemonster]

In any auction the fall of the hammer means a contract is made, he as to pay and you have to deliver. A delay in delivery, if only short, would not constitute a breach of contract on your part nor give your customer grounds to demand a refund. Refusing to send the goods or communicate with the buyer would eventually give them a case to sue. Can't imagine the police would be interested in this nor a dca. Send the goods and apologise for the delay.

 

cds

 

So all the police stuff he mentions about getting a case number and saying that the police saying that i have intentionally decieved the buyer is all bluff talk?

 

So you don't think that the police or a private debt collector would be interested?

 

Your saying that he could sue me in the small claims court then?

 

Also the buyer keeps mentioning that it is a criminal matter, Isn't it a civil matter?

Edited July 10, 2009 by thecookiemonster

[cds]

unless you fulfill the contract yes

 

cds

[Bookworm]

You can't have the goods and the money, end of.

 

Since you have spent the money, send him the goods. Make sure you get proof you sent it in case he tries to get his money back through Paypal dispute.

 

2 wrongs don't do a right. He may be rude or whatever, but you are doing yourself no favours by delaying the sending of the stuff. Send it to them and get rid of him and you can both move on.

 

Edit: CDS, despite common misconception, e-bay is NOT an auction and the rules of auction don't apply. ;-)

[cds]

1. Bidding and Buying.
    
   As a buyer, you have a legal obligation to complete a transaction with a seller:
   


1. if you purchase an item through one of our fixed price formats; or
   
2. b. if you are the highest bidder at the end of an auction-style listing (meeting the applicable minimum bid or reserve requirements and including any bid that becomes the highest after a valid bid retraction) and your bid is accepted by the seller, unless the item is listed in a category under our Non-Binding Bid Policy or the transaction is prohibited by law or by this User Agreement.
   

By bidding on an item you agree to be bound by the conditions of sale included in the item's description provided that those conditions of sale are not in breach of this User Agreement or otherwise unlawful. Bids are only retractable in exceptional circumstances, such as when the seller materially changes the item's description after a bid is placed, a clear typographical error is made, or you cannot authenticate the seller's identity. Please refer to our Bid Retraction Policy for further clarification. As buyer, you must ensure that you are legally able to bid for and buy any item that you bid for.

 

taken from ebays user agreement, I was talking from a contract point of view, ebay does claim to be only a trading platform, but the individual auctions that go on there would, I think, be interpreted in court as such. cds:)

[Bookworm]

That's e-bay's T&Cs, which is a very different thing from the law. ;-)

 

And no, an auction is a very specific trading style, and e-bay sales do not come under that. For instance, the DSR do not apply to real auctions, they very much do apply to e-bay transactions.

 

There can be no legally binding contract until ALL the terms to form a contract have been fulfilled, and one of the elements is payment. In the case above, it could be deemed that the contract has been formed, as buyer paid for the goods, but until he did, there was in fact no contract and buyer could have pulled out and be completely within his rights. ;-)