Lloyds have finally agreed I'm suffering financial hardship but refuse to process my claim - courts or FOS

[Catcall9]

Lloyds have finally agreed, albeit only verbally at the moment, that I am in financial hardship but are still refusing to process my claim, or agree to lift the stay on my court case that was submitted 2007, and say that within the FSA rules the stay on my case (at Cardiff small claims) will remain. They have also said that they will write confirming this but can't say when that will be ??? All I have is a name in the charges (Andover) department at the moment confirming this.

 

I'm unclear though as to whether they do have an obligation to process my claim, as I have a court case stayed??

 

I am officially redundant and on income support in a weeks time, single parent, don't get my mortage interest paid for 12 weeks, no redundancy pay, no savings, I have no funds to meet my car payment due August.

 

Should I just pursue this through the courts, Cardiff Court say I can just write a letter asking the district judge to lift the stay with my financial hardship reasons, or should I push Lloyds to process my claim ?

 

If I do write to the courts does anyone know how long it's likely to be to actually get a court date if the judge agrees to lift the stay in my case ?

Any advice much appreciated as I'm getting absolutely nowhere fast.

[BankFodder]

despite the fact that the Lloyds apparently accept that you are in hardship, they have no obligation to do anything and you have got no basis to force them to do so. I'm afraid that the hardship scheme is merely cosmetic and comparatively few people are benefiting.

 

If anybody was still in doubt about the hardship scheme and believes that it is a real example of the banks going out of their way to help people in great difficulty, then your story should give them a bit of reality.

 

I don't think there is any basis either not asking the court to lift the stay .

 

It is very clear that your situation is very bad. I'm afraid I have no idea what to suggest you in order to get you some money now.

 

It is a scandal that you are being put to this agony when it is clear that the money is yours and that it will eventually be refunded to you but not until the banks have built every opportunity to create further delays.

 

All I can say is to keep your claim updated. You should keep a running calculation of all the charges which you have paid the claim. Also look at the current discussions on claiming back your interest which you have paid as well. Don't forget that if the charges are unlawful then so is the interest which the bank will have charged you on those charges while you are overdrawn. You should claim all of this back as well. I think that you will find that it will make your claim worth thousands of pounds extra. Don't let them off a single penny when the time comes for repayment.

 

If you don't do your claim then the charges that you have suffered since 2007 and the interest on those charges which you have paid will not be benefiting from the courts statutory 8% interest.

[Catcall9]

Thanks bankfodder,

 

I'm going to try and appeal to the judges compassion anyway (I spoke to someone today who said I could just write a letter and take it in tomorrow with my evidence), keep pestering Lloyds for a formal response, put a complaint in with the FOS and report Lloyds to the FSA for not processing my claim even though they conceded I'm a hardship case, and also keep pestering Sechiari Clarke & Mitchell, Lloyds' solicitors.........I'm at my wits end and think I'll probably lose the car which means it'll be impossible to get another job as I can't travel to childminders or for work to get any reasonable hours in (I'm an engineer, no engineering jobs in the water industry in Wales at the moment all miles away, no part-time or flexi options in male dominated professions, stupidly overqualified for part time jobs in others area's that are available), having the car repo'd means my near perfect credit score'll be ruined so no more credit for another car - I just hope I manage to keep the house through all this........sorry to whinge, thanks for your support....perhaps I'll lie for the next admin job that comes up and say I've only GCSE's

[yourbank]

Thanks bankfodder,

 

I'm going to try and appeal to the judges compassion anyway (I spoke to someone today who said I could just write a letter and take it in tomorrow with my evidence), keep pestering Lloyds for a formal response, put a complaint in with the FOS and report Lloyds to the FSA for not processing my claim even though they conceded I'm a hardship case, and also keep pestering Sechiari Clarke & Mitchell, Lloyds' solicitors.........I'm at my wits end and think I'll probably lose the car which means it'll be impossible to get another job as I can't travel to childminders or for work to get any reasonable hours in (I'm an engineer, no engineering jobs in the water industry in Wales at the moment all miles away, no part-time or flexi options in male dominated professions, stupidly overqualified for part time jobs in others area's that are available), having the car repo'd means my near perfect credit score'll be ruined so no more credit for another car - I just hope I manage to keep the house through all this........sorry to whinge, thanks for your support....perhaps I'll lie for the next admin job that comes up and say I've only GCSE's

 

I would probably appeal to LloydsTSB on the basis you have stated.

Do you have any priority debt arrears(mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities)?

You won't get the stay lifted in court as there is no case law whatsoever to support lifting the stay.

[Catcall9]

Hi,

 

Lloyds know all this and are completely accepting that I am in financial hardship, and may lose my house and car if I'm not refunded charges NOW....but they're also saying that they are under no obligation to lift the stay and that they won't agree to do that. They are also refusing outright to process any claim made with them for a refund of bank charges even though I am a hardship case. They are also lowering my permanent overdraft limit by £15 every single month to try and finish me off ! I have no option but to keep borrowing on credit cards in order to stay out of debt collection and damage to my credit rating, which I think I'll definately need once this is all over.

 

The FSA were vague as hell about all this and I don't seem to find anything concrete that says they HAVE to process a claim made for a refund if they agree that I'm in financial hardship, the FOS were even more wishy washy and have quoted me 6 months or thereabouts before a complaint to refund charges is resolved through them (and then no guarantee that they will award a refund).

 

The hardship stuff is as useful as a chocolate teapot with regards to any meaningful assistance to those in genuine difficulty, it's still totally down to the discretion of the banks it seems, I'm at a loss to understand why some people have been refunded and I'm not ??? The FSA can't be seem to be able to tell me anything about forcing them to process my claim even when they fully admit I'm in hardship !!???

 

I think the courts might be my only hope, and those chances are slim to zero I think, depending on the district judge that looks at my application for the order to remove the stay and how a good a case I put forwards (p.s. none of the skeleton arguem,ent links are working, I'm making it up as I go along if someone could just post it here that would be very helpful...or cut and paste and privately message me..please).

 

I've managed to get a name of someone in Cardiff County Court, who'll be able to tell me

 

1) how many stays have been lifted due to financial hardship in Cardiff

2) how many stays haven't been lifted when claiments present financial hardship cases

3) how many claims that LLoyds have settled with no quibble once stays have been lifted

4) whether - to date - Lloyds have one a single case against a claimant and not had refund charges

5) whether Lloyds have actually gone through with a court case once the stays have been lifted

 

I think this'll help my case. I now realise that there is no legal requirement for any judge to rule to lift a stay once hardship has been cliamed, or even admitted by the bank, but I'm hoping to appeal to common sense and concience.

 

Once I have figures as mentioned above I'll repost (the chap is on holiday until Wednesday next week), in case any one else wants to use them for Cardiff County Court (Civil Justice Centre).

 

Any one else who has any advice or info on Cardiff or Lloyds would be appreciated, particularly those that have had stays lifted at Cardiff, or full refunds before cases come to court at Cardiff.

 

I'm actually wondering if I should employ a solicitor at this point.

 

Many thanks.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Catcall9
terribel spelling, I'm emotional - sorry !

[Catcall9]

p.s. they also know that I am already indebt with water, gas, electricity and on pre-payment budget plans, I'm on interest only mortgage with no means of repaying the actual mortgage when it's due in 12 years time and that my credit card borrwing is increasing all the time. My car is a priority debt also....I'm absolutely b*ggered

[yourbank]

Hi,

 

Lloyds know all this and are completely accepting that I am in financial hardship, and may lose my house and car if I'm not refunded charges NOW....but they're also saying that they are under no obligation to lift the stay and that they won't agree to do that. They are also refusing outright to process any claim made with them for a refund of bank charges even though I am a hardship case. They are also lowering my permanent overdraft limit by £15 every single month to try and finish me off ! I have no option but to keep borrowing on credit cards in order to stay out of debt collection and damage to my credit rating, which I think I'll definately need once this is all over.

 

The FSA were vague as hell about all this and I don't seem to find anything concrete that says they HAVE to process a claim made for a refund if they agree that I'm in financial hardship, the FOS were even more wishy washy and have quoted me 6 months or thereabouts before a complaint to refund charges is resolved through them (and then no guarantee that they will award a refund).

That is because of the number of claimants going through the FOS for Financial Hardship. The difficulty advising is that on the very basic level someone can appear to be in hardship yet when you see an Income and Expenditure form, it can produce results vastly different from what you initially presume.

The hardship stuff is as useful as a chocolate teapot with regards to any meaningful assistance to those in genuine difficulty, it's still totally down to the discretion of the banks it seems, I'm at a loss to understand why some people have been refunded and I'm not ??? The FSA can't be seem to be able to tell me anything about forcing them to process my claim even when they fully admit I'm in hardship !!???

Have you read the FSA Waiver on Bank Charges?

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/disp_monthly.pdf

I have read it quite a few times to understand it. Annex 2 deals with hardship albeit there are other parts of the waiver that deal with it.

 

I think the courts might be my only hope, and those chances are slim to zero I think, depending on the district judge that looks at my application for the order to remove the stay and how a good a case I put forwards (p.s. none of the skeleton arguem,ent links are working, I'm making it up as I go along if someone could just post it here that would be very helpful...or cut and paste and privately message me..please).

Don't make it up or you lose the court fee you have to pay to try to lift the stay when the DJ says NO.

I've managed to get a name of someone in Cardiff County Court, who'll be able to tell me

 

1) how many stays have been lifted due to financial hardship in Cardiff

2) how many stays haven't been lifted when claiments present financial hardship cases

3) how many claims that LLoyds have settled with no quibble once stays have been lifted

4) whether - to date - Lloyds have one a single case against a claimant and not had refund charges

5) whether Lloyds have actually gone through with a court case once the stays have been lifted

 

I think this'll help my case. I now realise that there is no legal requirement for any judge to rule to lift a stay once hardship has been cliamed, or even admitted by the bank, but I'm hoping to appeal to common sense and concience.

 

Once I have figures as mentioned above I'll repost (the chap is on holiday until Wednesday next week), in case any one else wants to use them for Cardiff County Court (Civil Justice Centre).

 

Any one else who has any advice or info on Cardiff or Lloyds would be appreciated, particularly those that have had stays lifted at Cardiff, or full refunds before cases come to court at Cardiff.

 

I'm actually wondering if I should employ a solicitor at this point.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

My personal opinion is that you will not get a stay lifted. However, if that is the route you are going, I am going to step aside, because I don't want to be party to a case where you will lose money which you really can't afford to spend, ie the filing fee for lifting a stay.

[yourbank]

p.s. they also know that I am already indebt with water, gas, electricity and on pre-payment budget plans, I'm on interest only mortgage with no means of repaying the actual mortgage when it's due in 12 years time and that my credit card borrwing is increasing all the time. My car is a priority debt also....I'm absolutely b*ggered

Have they asked for income and expenditure forms plus notice of arrears?

[Catcall9]

they've had my income and expenditure forms that showedI was in financial hardship when I was working since February this year, also they had an updated project version following my redundancy in a weeks time since the 20th May. I listed over 30 forms of evidence for them which accompoanied my income/expenditure sheets and asked if they'd like me to send it, including my priority debts and payment plans, defaulted loans e.t.c. They're not disputing in anyway whatsoever that I am in extreme financial hardship. They're just simply refusing to process my claim or agree to lift the stay, apparently they don't have to - it's still all discretionary, or to make any kind of refund, even partially to me. On top of that they are continuing to reduce my nonthly overdarft with them by £15 a month.

 

I'm at my wits end, I might lose the £40 but to be honest at this stage I don't think there's anything else left for me to do. Even if I do put in a complaint with the FOS, I'll still have lost my house and car by the time they even look at my details.

 

If there's anything else you can suggest, I'd be very grateful. I'm now totally despondant.

 

Lloyds have an email address for charges refunds/complaints

 

charges_complaints@lloydstsb.co.uk

 

telephone number for charges department in Andover is 01264 724214

(leave a message they get back in 48 hours)

for what it's worth......

[yourbank]

they've had my income and expenditure forms that showedI was in financial hardship when I was working since February this year, also they had an updated project version following my redundancy in a weeks time since the 20th May. I listed over 30 forms of evidence for them which accompoanied my income/expenditure sheets and asked if they'd like me to send it, including my priority debts and payment plans, defaulted loans e.t.c. They're not disputing in anyway whatsoever that I am in extreme financial hardship. They're just simply refusing to process my claim or agree to lift the stay, apparently they don't have to - it's still all discretionary, or to make any kind of refund, even partially to me. On top of that they are continuing to reduce my nonthly overdarft with them by £15 a month.

 

I'm at my wits end, I might lose the £40 but to be honest at this stage I don't think there's anything else left for me to do. Even if I do put in a complaint with the FOS, I'll still have lost my house and car by the time they even look at my details.

 

If there's anything else you can suggest, I'd be very grateful. I'm now totally despondant.

 

Lloyds have an email address for charges refunds/complaints

 

charges_complaints@lloydstsb.co.uk

 

telephone number for charges department in Andover is 01264 724214

(leave a message they get back in 48 hours)

for what it's worth......

 

I gotta say I am getting a little stumped on this one so I got another question, how the hell are you surviving within the overdraft if they are reducing it by £15?

Are you claiming everything, benefit wise that you can claim? Are you reclaiming any charges on credit cards as well?

[Catcall9]

After help from this site here's an extract of my original letter claiming hardship dated 3rd march, referring to Annex 2;

 

I respectfully request that you agree to lift the stay on the case referenced above in line with Section 14 of the Banking Code guidance, March 2008 version (‘the Code’), Annex 2 – Dealing with complainants in financial difficulty.

 

Please see the attached sheets for submission as evidence with form N244;

 

1) Statement of Hardship financial circumstances

2) Hardship spreadsheet

3) Explanatory notes for hardship spreadsheet

4) Evidence List

 

I am able to provide evidence if required as per 4) above. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

is this what you are referring to ?

 

nowhere in this code does it say that they are obliged to agree to lift stays or refund any charges,

 

Lloyds just keep saying that yes - they agree that I'm in extreme financial hardship but, no, my case will NOT BE DEALT WITH until the commercial litigation is concluded.

 

They also said toady that The FSA audits them on there procedures with dealing with complainants such as me and that their house "is in order" and they are entitled to uphold the stay and not refund my charges or settle out of court.

[yourbank]

NO, I meant how are you surviving when they are reducing the overdraft by £15 per month.

The banking code is voluntary so doesn't help, and the FSA Waiver is regulatory so not a basis for lifting the stay.

[Catcall9]

I'm managing to pay the credit card interest, which is actually a little more than the £15 they reduce my overdraft by, I set up another account with a different bank in 2007 to actually have money to live on, I had no other option.

 

I'm spending a little over £17 a week on food for my daughter and I, my gas and electric and water debts are crippling me. I have to cut back the only way I can, which is on food, I am waering all of my sister's and mothers cast off's right now, and my neighbours and friend have been very kind and helped to kit my daughter out with school uniform.

 

Life is very grim, and getting grimmer. I felt I had a fighting chance until I was made redundant, I actually got a £500 pay rise a week before they told me to hop it.

 

again,

 

Lloyds know all of this, they just don't give a f**k.

[yourbank]

Catcall, what I meant was you have said that Lloyds have been reducing your overdraft at a rate of £15 a month. How are you managing to remain within that limit?

[Catcall9]

the really upsetting thing is that if they paid me my charges back, I could clear all my priority debts in one go apart from £150 on my credit card...more than doable if I pay back a lttle from my benefits each month. My mortgage interest doesn't get paid until I've been unemployed 3 moths (they pay 50% after 8 weeks and 100% after 12 weeks)...what I'm supposed to do until then I don't know, I'm hoiping my mortgage company will be sympathetic, I've already written to them explaining.

 

But it looks like I'll lose my car in any case. Much lower chance of getting another job without it and my credit will be ruined completely once it's repo'd, so that I can't get another one, I've already paid 26 months of it off, only have 10 months to go, less than a third of the charges they owe me is left to pay on it.

[Catcall9]

I'm tranferring money from my other bank account £15 every month to Lloyds, then drawing £15 cash on my credit card to live on.

[yourbank]

Catcall, what I meant was you have said that Lloyds have been reducing your overdraft at a rate of £15 a month. How are you managing to remain within that limit?

THis bit I don't understand and I am trying to work that out.

[yourbank]

I'm tranferring money from my other bank account £15 every month to Lloyds, then drawing £15 cash on my credit card to live on.

 

Has the other account incurred any charges and was it put on the Income and Expenditure form?

Is this savings or child benefit money(does your daughter still get this)?

[Catcall9]

yes, I've incurred both penalty charge on my credit card and my other bank account, Lloyds know all this - and agree that I'm in extreme financial hardship.

 

They tried to say that they wouldn't carry on with a payment plan on my overdraft, but I pursuaded them to keep letting me pay to keep it out of the debt collection process which will damage my credit rating, hoping that I can get the charges back before it all finally goes belly up....it looks like that's not going to happen.

[Catcall9]

the other account was my wages which are due to stop completely on the 9th June, I was already having to keep borrowing on my credit card before I was made redundant, I have absolutely no hope when my wages stop. I'm basically down approx £150 pcm on priority debt rep[ayment when I have just income support and child benefit, I also have another £200 of non-priority debt pcm (all from amarraige break up back in 2003 when Lloyds orginally put £2K approx in charges on my account for unpaid SO's checques and DD's).

Edited June 2, 2009 by Catcall9

[yourbank]

yes, I've incurred both penalty charge on my credit card and my other bank account, Lloyds know all this - and agree that I'm in extreme financial hardship.

 

They tried to say that they wouldn't carry on with a payment plan on my overdraft, but I pursuaded them to keep letting me pay to keep it out of the debt collection process which will damage my credit rating, hoping that I can get the charges back before it all finally goes belly up....it looks like that's not going to happen.

 

The worst thing about this is that I think your insistence on the payment plan is meaning that they are not looking at hardship. I can't think of any other reason. Personally, I wouldn't care about my credit rating.

Furthermore, I would be looking at those credit card charges and reclaiming the lot since, that is a lot easier than a bank charges claim.

[jansus]

There have been successes on hardship claims but I agree that each bank seems to have its own agenda.

 

the only thing i can suggest is one last very strong letter explaining your situation is worsening each day. Explain clearly what you wish to do with the funds ( pay mortgage arrears or car payments etc) and exactly what will happen if you dont pay these debts. Complain to the FOS as well at the same time and again explain clearly how urgent your case is. You can put your complaint in and then call them.There have been occasions where they have intervened by phone and have things have moved on.

 

Offer to give them details of where they could pay the monies direct to ease your situation.

 

And as yourbank has suggested re-look at all angles of your finances to see if there are any other charges you can claim.

[Catcall9]

Lloyds actually agree that I am in extreme financial hardship, my written confirmation fo this is on it's way from both the charges department, collections department AND their solicitors. They've looked at my case, concluded I'm in financial hardship and are outright refusing to refund or even agree to lift the stay. Confirmation fo that is on it's way in writing along with tyheir agreementb that I'm in hardship.

 

I've done evry thing I can with Lloyds I think, I'm hoping the courts will see common sense. I just don't understand how other peoepl have managed to get their charges back when the bank have agreed they are in financial hardship and yet they won't give me the time of day ??

 

I appreciate your advice and support, sorry for the ranting, I'm a little hysterical after my phonecall with Mark (second name witheld) from Andover charges department today, when he blatently agreed I'm in financial hardship but catagorically refused to approve a lfit on the stay, or offer me any refund of any kind because THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

 

I'm actuially very deprtessed about this today, I got my hopes up until I had this conversation this morning and now I'm at a loss.

 

I'm going to have a BIG glass of wine, a good sleep, have prepared my N244 for the court tomorrow morning bright and eraly..and am going to cling on to that for now.

[Catcall9]

how much can I post on here ? I can paste my email explaining that I plan to completely pay off Lloyds overdraft, my car, my defaulted loan and arrears if that helps ?

[Catcall9]

My email sent this moring (followed by my soul destroying conversation)

 

 

I would be grateful if you could ackowledge by the end of business today that my request for consideration of hardship status, and my income/expenditure details are being looked at by your department and whether your considerations are reaching a conclusion.

 

I am concerned as this is the 10th working day since your reciept of my financial details and I have had no communication in return.

 

Please also note that I do not have funds to make my next hire purchase car payment which is due XXXXXX. There is no unemployment insurance on this loan and the car will be seized by XXXXXXX and my credit rating significantly damaged in this event.

 

I have approximately 10 months left to run on this hire purchase agreement, having kept the account in good order for the past 26 months. The car will be necessary if I am to obtain suitable employment in the future and If the car is seized I have no savings or funds to obtain another, more importantly if my credit rating is damaged I may not be able to obtain credit to purchase another car in the future. This will seriously effect my ability to obtain work in the current climate, as I need to transport my daughter to and from childminders premises and also I may have to travel some distance for work as jobs in my field (water engineering) are extremely scarce due to the economic downturn in Wales.

 

If you would like to evidence on any of the issues raised above, need to discuss any of the points raised here further, or indeed require evidence in support of my redundancy hardship, please do not hesitate to contact me immediately. I have scanning facilities at my local library and can electronically send you any information you require today.

 

I hope to hear from you before the end of business.

 

regards,

 

XXXXXXXX

 

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: charges_complaints@lloydstsb.co.uk

Subject:

Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Further to my telephone call yesterday please find attached.

 

1) My letter received by your solicitors 3/3/2009

2) my original income expenditure received at you solicitors 3/5/2009 which they acknowldege and informed they sent on to Lloyds.

3) my revised income and expenditure due to redundacy 9th June and notes. This is what I intend to submit (N244) to the courts to request a hearing to lift the stay placed on my court case in light of my finanicial hardship, if you do not agree to lift the stay.

3) Up to date detail of charges and accrued interest (at 8%). Please note that I AM NOT CLAIMING OVERDRAFT INTEREST even though my current overdraft is entirely made up of charges.

 

I hope to hear from you within the next 5-10 working days, this matter has now become critical as you may appreciate. The best outcome, considering the harassment I have, and continue to receive, from your collections department though no fault of my own, would be a full and final refund at this stage, in order that I can clear the overdraft currently managed by them. I hope you will consider this very carefully and take my previous treatment by collections into account. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require details of their actions, which I have received written apologies for.

Regards,

 

 

attached to this was my income and expenditure for both cases of hardship my evidence list, and exp[lanatory notes (complicated life!!!)

 

below is the accompanying notes to my redundancy hardship spreadsheet

 

additional notes

I intend to take my car off the road temporarily until I find work

I intend to temporarily disconnect my home phone/broadband

I do not intend to return to University until I can afford the fees again (£1100.00 per year)

I am on pre-pay meters due to debt for Gas and Electricity

I have basic home insurance which is required by mortgage lender as I am on interest only

I intend to reduce non-custodial parental access unless her father can travel to our family home

I intend to suspend my daughters XXXX class activities

 

I would have a small remaining debt left to pay monthly on my credit card if I was reimbursed my charges

 

Creditor 1 XXX Credit (EVIDENCE Q) £350.00

Creditor 2 XXXX loans (EVIDENCE R) £1,010.00

Creditor 3 XXX Credit card *13 (EVIDENCE S) £600.00

Creditor 4 Lloyds tsb (EVIDENCE T) £1,085.00

 

TOTAL

£3,045.00

 

charges CLAIMED £2,933.27

 

XXXX remaining debt £111.73

 

**********************************************

I really feel that I've done everything I can, but if anyone can see something obvious I've missed then I'd be grateful.The 1st creditor is a defaulted loan from divorcing that I have a p[-ayment plan with, the second one is the car HP left to pya, the third one is the credit card, the last one is the remaing overdraft that they are continuing to reduce by £15 every month, I've worked damned hard to get my cerdit score up since my troubles in 2003 and am desparate to try and sort this out. I think that basically they've written me off in the full knowledge that I'll be ruined shortly. (sorry..wine kicking in so I'm having to edit so you can understand me).

Edited June 2, 2009 by Catcall9