"Parking Charge" £70 Euro Car Parks?

[consumerzoo]

Sorry about the lack of reply but for some reason I am not getting any email notifications...

 

I thought I had got away with the fine until I received a letter a few days ago say that unless I paid within 14 days the matter will be sent ot a debt collection agency.

 

I decided to send a registered letter stating that I do not recollect any fine, my car is used by various members of the family, what was the weather like on the day etc..

 

I have as yet not received any reply but I've sent them an email today reminding them of the fact that I have sent them a registered letter.

 

How di you get on..?

[stevokenevo]

For the record, i have still never heard anything back from euro carparks after sending them that email, the ticket was actually issued on 6th april, so i think we can safely say ive heard the end of it, on a different matter, i got lucky with one of those roadside cameras from the dvla checking passing cars for valid tax discs, i drove by one, my tax disc was 3 weeks out, i drove past the camera straight to the post office and got a tax disc, that was 3months ago now........

[humanscar]

new to the site, but I decided to bite the bullet having had an Euro Car Parks ticket demanding £70 put under my wiper just before Christmas in Old town, Swindon. It is a Co-op car park, doesn't require the purchase of a ticket but does state max stay 100 mins... I was there at least 120-130 mins, so not really surprised to get a ticket, but very surprised to see it was demanding £70... read more detail (no mention of the word "offence" on it BTW) to discover it's only £50 if paid within 14 days... then discovered by reading absolutely everything on it that I could pay online. So I decided I'd look on the web and see just how legit it is, but having read all the above, I decided, like I'm sure thousands of others do every day, it would be less hassle and cheaper for me (i.e. stress, time v £50) to just pay it.

So, go online to pay it to discover they only wanted £30 + about £2 admin fee, so suddenly it was a whole lot more digestible, and let's face it, I knew I was over the time limit and expected a ticket, so it's only fair... except these money grabbing b*stards don't really deserve a penny.

 

Can anyone remember the days of completely free parking without time restraints? - Oh how I crave for those times back!

[demon_x_slash]

Well, now you've paid it to keep them off your back, you can start to claim it back if you're really worried about it...the more pay, the more they get away with it

[diskmandave]

This is my first post here! Hi everyone it's 2200 on New Years Eve. I'm a Senior Shop Steward (fully trained) for a Sunlight distribution department. What I tell all of my boys is, to park where the flipping heck they need to without actually committing a criminal offence, wether it be council controlled or private company regulated. If they are in breach of council Reg's we go for them on every single legal point, if they are on private then Sunlight is the owner and not legally responsible to provide driver details. I think a lot of people miss the fact that if you own a car that is used by multiple drivers that as far as private is concerned is that you don't even have to buy a ticket at a private car park if you've got the balls to chase them back as far as a ticket is concerned! I became S. Shop Steward 18/01/2001 and since then my strike rate on ticket appeals is still 100%. My best 2 being a) parked over 2 p&d bays without displaying ticket/s (wrong contravention code), and, b) parked in an operational bus lane (attendant ((not p/officer or t/warden)) had no right to issue for a criminal offence, and, used wrong contravention code). The moral of any story here I think, must always be, appeal appeal appeal.

 

Best regards, hope one and all have a great 2007! - Dave.

[diskmandave]

Whoopsi! Sorry hit send twice!

your duplicate has been deleted for you

[diskmandave]

new to the site, but I decided to bite the bullet having had an Euro Car Parks ticket demanding £70 put under my wiper just before Christmas in Old town, Swindon. It is a Co-op car park, doesn't require the purchase of a ticket but does state max stay 100 mins... I was there at least 120-130 mins, so not really surprised to get a ticket, but very surprised to see it was demanding £70... read more detail (no mention of the word "offence" on it BTW) to discover it's only £50 if paid within 14 days... then discovered by reading absolutely everything on it that I could pay online. So I decided I'd look on the web and see just how legit it is, but having read all the above, I decided, like I'm sure thousands of others do every day, it would be less hassle and cheaper for me (i.e. stress, time v £50) to just pay it.

So, go online to pay it to discover they only wanted £30 + about £2 admin fee, so suddenly it was a whole lot more digestible, and let's face it, I knew I was over the time limit and expected a ticket, so it's only fair... except these money grabbing b*stards don't really deserve a penny.

 

Can anyone remember the days of completely free parking without time restraints? - Oh how I crave for those times back!

 

If you're happy tp pay £32 for parking then U deserve all U get!

[diskmandave]

It was £70, then it was £50, but, at £32 it becomes acceptable?!

stress/harrassment/paythedamnthing!

 

This is how these companies trade!

[Ropey]

What I tell all of my boys is, to park where the flipping heck they need to without actually committing a criminal offence... parked in an operational bus lane (attendant ((not p/officer or t/warden)) had no right to issue for a criminal offence, and, used wrong contravention code).

 

Some contradiction here Dave. Thanks for encouraging 'your lads' foul up the public transport system for decent people.

[patdavies]

Thanks for encouraging 'your lads' foul up the public transport system for decent people.

 

I think that you are over-reacting.

 

I am assuming that these are delivery vehicles - which have to park somewhere to unload. Are you suggesting that they shouldn't park against the kerb in a bus-lane, but in the normal traffic lane (in the middle of the road)and then have to cross the bus-lane on foot.

[itsamomentintime]

Any fifth letter would trigger a harassment action under the 1997 Protection from Harassment Act, which I would be entitled to claim £5,000 in damages for mental anguish.

 

 

 

how likely is it that such a claim would be successful?

[diskmandave]

I think that you are over-reacting.

 

I am assuming that these are delivery vehicles - which have to park somewhere to unload. Are you suggesting that they shouldn't park against the kerb in a bus-lane, but in the normal traffic lane (in the middle of the road)and then have to cross the bus-lane on foot.

 

Thank You Pat!

 

The next time that you visit your favourite sports store or outlet shop that has a posh floor mat at the front door.... Please remember, it is the likes of me that has to stop a delivery truck outside to swap it for laundering! Even if it's a bus lane outside the door of the shop, many councils are putting a No Stopping Notice alongside a No Waiting sign!!!!! Each cancels the other out legally! WRONG SIGNAGE! AND.... If we laundry guys refused to collect because of tickets, Mr Bus Lane protestor, your shops would not get clean mats or laundry! If we launder uniform for these shops how are we supposed to collect/deliver! Hence, my statement, unless you're committing a criminal offence.......

 

Hope that clears up my post!

[Ropey]

Well why didn't you say you were delivering front door mats. That puts a completely different complexion on things. The people of Britain can't be expected to use dirty welcome mats on their way into sport shops. You should apply for a Royal warrant to formalise your right to park anywhere you want and not have to walk the 40 yards from round the corner.

 

Please accept my humblest apologies and heartfelt thanks for the essential work you do for the community.

[diskmandave]

Well why didn't you say you were delivering front door mats. That puts a completely different complexion on things. The people of Britain can't be expected to use dirty welcome mats on their way into sport shops. You should apply for a Royal warrant to formalise your right to park anywhere you want and not have to walk the 40 yards from round the corner.

 

Please accept my humblest apologies and heartfelt thanks for the essential work you do for the community.

 

What I was trying to say was that there are some things that we have to do!!! But you obviously have a problem with that! If "us delivery drivers" adhered to the letter of the law re: delivering/parking then, a lot of your favourite shops would not get clean mats or uniform for their staff, regardless of the parking restrictions outside the shop, these CUSTOMERS have to be delivered to! What do you want us to do? Park 2 miles away and walk back??? Your attitude absolutely amazes me!

 

Do you shop at Blacks or Millets? 99% of their shops (same parent group) like the 2 on Mcr Deansgate are on either a No Stopping at Anytime, or, a Bus Lane! And those that aren't are on a No Loading/Unloading at anytime!

 

My worst customer to deliver to is Sascha's Hotel, Tibb Street, Manchester. They even have their own delivery bay! BUT, Manchester City Council has marked their delivery bay with both double yellow lines and No Loading/Unloading at Any Time notices!!! ON THE DELIVERY BAY!

 

The next time that you visit your local Starbucks, see how strict the parking is outside...! Who do you think launders their green aprons and their bar towels...???! These have to be laundered!

 

Should we say that because of Mr Ropeys comments, that we delivery drivers should adhere to the letter of the law and refuse to collect or deliver to these customers??! If we did, these bussinesses would fail within a month purely on Health and Saftey Laws.

Moderated .. personal insults removed from this post as this is against the forum rules

[livelylad]

Please behave, personal insults are not allowed. All you are doing is taking up Mods time by them having to edit silly comments. Lets just get on with the job in hand please. Ours and I am sure your time could be much better spent within this site. Thank you

[petej2811]

Am I right in thinking that in instances where private car park operators issue tickets, there is no obligation for the registered keeper to pay any charges, unlike it is with tickets issued by local authorities?

 

You are completely right. The Court will require proof that a contract was entered into.

 

Offer, acceptance, certainty of terms and consideration. Things which will be lacking in the absence of proof of the other party to the contract. 100% unenforceable.

[petej2811]

I too received a parking ticket from Euro Car Parks for overstaying. I usually have my elderly Mum with me when I park in this particular car park & she has a disabled parking badge which gives us free parking so I just forgot about the time limit.

 

I then forgot to pay the "fine" as I've been busy hospital visiting etc & I have now received a letter asking me for £60. If I don't pay within 14 days the matter will be referred to a debt collector & will incur a further admin charge of £25.

 

Can anyone tell me if this is enforceable?

 

Look at the Director of the Office of Fair Trading's report for january 2000.

 

The OFT declare that such resort by a company to a debt collector will have no basis in law unless the other party has a contract which specifically stipulates that the company may resort to such.

 

This is a link to the report.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/66BD8ACC-9DA8-472D-B7B0-8B0B6A3D0DBB/0/oft298.pdf

[Dr Gonzo]

I don't think you should use the penalty charges argument here or in any parking case. They have a claim for trespass (in England and Wales at least). You can trespass if you:

• Park without permission
  
• Park for longer than you were given permission to park
  
• Park in an area where you weren't supposed to park (not in a bay, in a disabled bay etc.)

They can claim damages for trespass. Damages do not have to reflect any actual loss. This is how clampers work. (Technically clampers would trespass on your property by fitting the clamp; however you've agreed to this because of the signs, so they don't. If no signs then it's quits. If no signs and no clamp they can sue you for trespass.)

 

It's a bit of a mix between contract law and trespass as far as I can see. It'll depend on the individual case. If the penalty argument fails, they could technically then sue you for trespass.

 

You are far better not admitting anything.

 

Just say that you are not party to the contract. If they write to the RK and ask who was driving, write back and say "sorry chaps, no idea." Untouchable unless they have your face clearly on CCTV.

 

Hi there, a friend asked me to look up the law on a very similar problem; this is what I concluded:

 

The only way that the fine (in his case 85 quid) was payable, was if:

 

(i) He had agreed to pay it (that is, he contracted to pay 85 pounds if he stayed beyond the maximum stay). In this case the English contract law rule on penalties would apply so that the fine was unenforceable. Note that there are other arguments too- about notice, and onerous terms. I also thought that the Unfair Terms in Consumer contracts Regulation might apply, on the basis that paying 85 pounds for staying 20 minutes over limit was unfair, that the driver is a consumer and the car park company acting in the course of a business, on its standard and non-negotiable terms of business.

 

(ii) If that sum represented the amount that a reasonable man would be willing to pay for the right to use the car park. That in my view is the measure of damages for trespass, the key question is if it whether any fine exceeds that amount. In my friend's case I advised tht 85 pounds for 20 minutes was disproportionate. I advised him to offer 20 quid to make the thing go away.

 

So yeah, there is the action in trespass. But the proper measure of damages, in cases where there is no damage to the land or landowner, damages are measured by the benefit to the trespasser.

 

I would say pay something, just not the fine. It costs money to bring small claims to court, which if you behave reasonably they cannot recover. So they'll take what they can get.

[Bekstar]

Hi there folks - hope you are all fine and dandy.

 

I'm new here having stumbled across the consumer action group website when I googled the evil swines that are Euro Car Parks and was amazed and indeed pleased to read some your stories.

 

I'm hoping some of you might be able to help me with what happened to me at the hands of Euro Car Parks and the unscrupulous management of Sainsburys....

 

Its free to park in my local Sainsbury's car park for the initial 2 hours, although I rarely drive there so hadn't really paid that much attention to the signs before last Saturday. Anyway having finally found a space and had a quick glance at the nearest parking sign, I nipped to a few shops, went in Sainsbury's itself and got back to my car with about 5 minutes to spare on my free 2 hours. To my horror I found a parking ticket, requesting the sum of...wait for it....£120 (a mere £80 if I paid in 14 days) for "no ticket displayed".

 

I then reread the nearest sign to my car which was worded "Have you displayed a ticket and paid if parking for more than 2 hours". My boyfriend spoke to both the parking attendant and ultimately the store manager and explained that the sign was extremely unclear and that we hadn't paid for a ticket as we had had no intention of being longer than the 2 hour free period. They were not willing to conceed and he was simply directed to other signage within the car park which admittedly did make it clear that you required a ticket even if you were parking for less than 2 hours.

 

For what its worth they do have CCTV at the entrance and exit points of the car park.

 

I was planning to appeal on the basis of the ambiguous signage and the fact that I hadn't actually gained any benefit in addition to what they were offering for free anyway i.e. 2 hours parking. Should I write and appeal or wait for them to come to me....that is of course if you guys think I have a case??!

 

Greatful for any advice!!!

 

Bekstar x:D

[Rob S]

Yes, you do have a case. Its a private car park and is governed by contract law. Read through the rest of this thread and others to enhance your knowledge and understanding of how these companies are really extracting the urine with their policies.

 

I would sit back and wait for them to write to the registered keeper of the vehicle ( I presume that is you). It would also be worth scanning the ticket they gave you and posting it on here to see how official they have tried to make it look.

[Bekstar]

Thanks Rob, I've had a trawl through a lot of posts of here and I'm hopeful that the ticket is invalid due to the fact I didn't knowingly enter into a contract on the basis that the signs are ambiguous.

 

Looking at the ticket - unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner - I think they have made a good attempt at getting their house in order by not using the words offence, penalty or fine.

 

The ticket is entitled "Parking Charge Notice" and tells me that "unauthorsised removal or interference is prohibited".

 

It is also bordered by blue and white sqaures that look suspciciously reminiscent of those you might find on a police issued ticket.

 

I only get 21 days to pay, although it doesn't tell me from when!

[falcon185]

Hi Bekstar,

it sounds like they may be in breach of the OFT guidelines, as it appears they have made an attempt to issue a document made to look like an official police document, might be worth looking into it a little more ;-)

[consumerzoo]

As yo may or may not from my previous comments. I sent my Eurocarparks a letter stating I dont remember receving a ticket, what date they were talking about and who was driving on any date specified. After nearly a month they have a wrote a very short letter stating "We refer to your recent query on the above account and whilst yoru comments have benn noted your dispute has not been upheld and your account remians payable. In view of this we would now appreciate your cheque being forwarded to us by return of post" It still seems a little fuzzy after reading the various comments on the forum. Apparently the car was not parked in a bay but whoevere was driving did pay for a ticket. Do I offer them £20 as some have suggested or do I really have any sort of case ? Thanks

[demon_x_slash]

Would you pay £40 if some random guy came up to you in the street and demanded it? You don't have any details, or any idea of date, time, 'offence' - and you still consider paying? This is nothing against you, consumerzoo, but a general point that I habitually rabbit on about every now and then - it's a full moon, I'm allowed - why oh why do people let themselves be cowed by a uniform or a letterhead? Why do they have the authority to demand this money? Because 'you' (the people) let them! 'YOU' should be demanding of THEM proof that they have the right to collect this money (which they don't)!

 

These guys are private enforcers, and have no weight in law. They have no real right to demand information from the DVLA (this is a hot topic atm, as DVLA has to be shown 'reasonable cause' to give out info, and most don't think that a private company issuing penalties have reasonable cause).

...Anyhoo, the implied contract for parking was with the driver of the vehicle, who is not necessarily the registered keeper - if you (the RK) weren't driving, then how could you agree for a contract to be imposed on your car by reading a sign that you weren't there to read? It's ridiculous. And you have NO OBLIGATION to tell these jerks who was driving at the time of the, hah, 'incident'. Honestly, if you let them know that you know your rights they'll go away with their tails between their legs.

Has the OP on this thread heard anything back since that last letter about three months ago? I'll have to check. Honestly, they're people in knock-off security guard hats trying to make themselves look big. Don't worry about it.

[Bekstar]

Hi Demon - all your comments noted, although I'm a little concerned in my case as I am the RK and I was driving the car when it was ticketed, and they have CCTV at the entrance and the exit of the car park....