15 year old daughter was caught shopliftng

[kiptower]

you should be carefull saying you "STOP" someone, that is not a power you have, you can approach them and ask questions , but the bottom line is they can tell you to foof off

 

the problem is so many security staff are told they can do this and do that by the company, when infact they cant, believe me you get it wrong and you will be out on a limb, a lot of people know their legal rights , and sad to say most serious shoplifters know the law backwards, they will goad you to put a hand on them etc , then sue the ar*e off you,

 

and as far as getting a person details "YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO THAT INFORMATION" only the Police can do that

 

sorry to say your training sounds like RLP hogwash

Edited June 10, 2009 by kiptower

[Sugar Plum Fairy]

just to say if a person has been stopped and taken back into store even if the police do not attend you can still civil recovery that person unless that person is a minor under the age of 18yrs. i know i am a security officer in a large retail store this is my job and i do it everyday. provided you are 100% certain they committed the offence then again a good security officer will not stop anyone unless they are 100% sure they had committed the crime.

and in my experience the police always come for a minor

 

Well its good that your store doesn't go down the civil recovery route for under 18's it must be the only one.

 

As you say you can civil recovery someone without the police being involved if you were 100% sure they committed a crime but have you thought of the consequences of doing this. I'm sure any Court would ask why you didn't report a crime to the Police. What evidence would you have as I doubt very much whether your store would keep any cctv footage, maybe you can confirm whether they do or not. Do you need to inform RLP whether police have been involved or not?

[leslie8570]

yes we do keep cctv and yes civil recovery ask if police were involved i personally didnt know we could civil rec a person if the police werent called but i have recently been told otherwise.

[Sugar Plum Fairy]

Who are your direct employers though Leslie, is it the store or a security firm?

[leslie8570]

the store

 

oh and just so everyone knows i always ask the person to come back into store because i have a problem with there shopping and needless to say on most occassions they know they have been caught and agree to come back if they dont agree to come back most times reg plates are passed to the police and followed up that way but the police always view cctv first. if people have blatantly walked out of the shop with something they hand it back most times and then make a run for it. in my view why run after them if you have got the goods back and its always captured on cctv

Edited June 10, 2009 by leslie8570

[Sugar Plum Fairy]

Your store is just relying on people paying RLP without a fuss. Someone correct me here but am I right in thinking that a store can only keep cctv footage for a certain amount of time unless Police are involved.

[JonCris]

They might try civil recovery without the police being involved that's upto them. As to whether they'll succeed is another matter. Of course there will always be those who'll pay up simply because they aren't aware of their legal rights nor do they want the embarrassment of being accused of being a criminal + plus the threat of going on a 'dishonest' data base may well induce some to pay - however none of that makes it right that people should be accused of things which at one time have been considered normal practice - nor does it excuse people not being told of their rights when asked to return to the shop or office - to be compliant with the law the accused should be also told that whilst you would like them to come back the don't have to & are free to leave at anytime - also it's not for security guards to be judge & jury - if they see a suspicious act then that's all it is a 'suspicious' act - it can only be considered a 'confirmed' criminal act if a court deems it so

 

Needless to say when more & more innocent people are accused of criminal acts by over zealous security guards the more this practice will be brought into disrepute - already there are murmurings going on behind the scenes as to how what was/is good idea is being prostituted by others

Edited June 10, 2009 by JonCris

[shanty]

the large retailer where i am a security colleague always call the police for a minor

 

 

 

 

How long have you worked in security Leslie?

Edited June 10, 2009 by shanty

[shanty]

you should be carefull saying you "STOP" someone, that is not a power you have, you can approach them and ask questions , but the bottom line is they can tell you to foof off

 

the problem is so many security staff are told they can do this and do that by the company, when infact they cant, believe me you get it wrong and you will be out on a limb, a lot of people know their legal rights , and sad to say most serious shoplifters know the law backwards, they will goad you to put a hand on them etc , then sue the ar*e off you,

 

and as far as getting a person details "YOU HAVE NO LEGAL RIGHT TO THAT INFORMATION" only the Police can do that

 

sorry to say your training sounds like RLP hogwash

 

 

 

I don't understand what you are saying.Of course a security officer can ask,or tell someone to come back into the store with them if they have seen them commit a crime.Leslie may not have an sia licence if she works directly for a store,it's not necessarily required.

 

Of course she can request their details,but its obvious you can't force someone to give them.

[JonCris]

shanty what's your definition of a crime?

[shanty]

well,if you want the definition of theft I can give it to you.

All that proves is that I know the definition.

Not sure of your point.

Edited June 11, 2009 by shanty

[JonCris]

I asked what is your definition of a 'crime' is not what is theft - We all or should know what theft is

 

Apart from theft what else would you consider to be 'crime' in the context of store security

[shanty]

er..why..isn't that rather obvious

 

You haven't explained your point.

The crimes in a store will be similar to aywhere else-theft,deception,fraud,

assault,burglary,going equipped,harassment,criminal damage (within reason). Attempted theft.If you have a power of arrest,you can arrest,apart from harrassment and attempted theft.There are probably a few more i can't bring to mind.

Edited June 11, 2009 by shanty

[JonCris]

Now your being silly Forgetting the obvious I'm asking you what you consider a crime in your day to day job - shoplifting obviously what else?

[shanty]

Being silly?

Really,explain why?

[JonCris]

Please just answer the question - It's simple enough "what do you consider a crime in the context of your day to day job shoplifting obviously what else"? In other words what regularly occurs which you think is a genuine crime

[JonCris]

eg If I pick up an item in one place say toiletries & later change my mind & deposit in say frozen foods have I committed a crime?

[shanty]

I seriously hope not,or we would all be criminals.

Whatever did you expect me to say!!

Edited June 13, 2009 by shanty

[shanty]

er..why..isn't that rather obvious

 

You haven't explained your point.

The crimes in a store will be similar to aywhere else-theft,deception,fraud,

assault,burglary,going equipped,harassment,criminal damage (within reason). Attempted theft.If you have a power of arrest,you can arrest,apart from harrassment and attempted theft.There are probably a few more i can't bring to mind.

 

 

Chris ,all these offences get encountered by security staff.Drug addicts etc don't come into stores to have a tea party.

 

Would you like to explain to ME why you seem unable to accept this?

[kiptower]

quote "If you have a power of arrest,you can arrest,"

 

BUT security Guards DONT have a warrant card which would give them the POWER of ARREST

 

more SIA / RLP waffle sorry to say telling Security staff they "can arrest someone"

[shanty]

It'a citizens arrest-what are you on...

 

The power of arrest is dictated by statute-not by having a warrant card.

Its called the "any person" powers.

ie."Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who has committed an indictable offence"-used to be called an arrestable offence,but now changed slightly so this quote wont be exact...

 

The warrant doesn't mean a warrant card either..oh dear..You don't need a warrant card to arrest someone.

 

The clue in is the phrase "citizens ARREST".

Edited June 11, 2009 by shanty

[kiptower]

No, it was regarding shantys comment

 

but citizens arrest is a minefield, and unless you actually know the law regarding it , stay well clear, an employer can not give their staff the right to use "citizens arrest"

 

as for warrent card it was a simple explination to define power of arrest IE an officer of the Crown

[shanty]

No, it was regarding shantys comment

 

but citizens arrest is a minefield, and unless you actually know the law regarding it , stay well clear, an employer can not give their staff the right to use "citizens arrest"

 

as for warrent card it was a simple explination to define power of arrest IE an officer of the Crown

 

 

You are talking****ocks,I am afraid.

An employer doesn't need to give its staff the right-they allready have the power in law.That's the sales assistant,the Manager,the security guard,the cleaner,and yourself etc.It is not a minefield .It's fairly straightforward.

Edited June 11, 2009 by shanty

[kiptower]

No I am not, but we have our own opinions and they’re those that have been involved in what is being discussed

However there are some that have better knowledge than others

Without using expletives

[shanty]

I agree you are of the opinion that a citizens arrest is a minefield,I respect that,but your other statements you have presented as facts,about the law and they are not correct,you clearly have no knowledge of this subject.The expletives never appeared in their full form.