utility warehouse

[Surfer01]

Surfer01 wrote

"There s a VERY big difference between a supplier and a distributor. The distribution company generates the power and then sells it on the wholesale market to a supplier. The distribution company is responsible for all the supply right up to your meter, i.e. they maintain the supply cable, sub stations, power lines etc. All a supplier does is generate bills to charge for the usage and deal with complaints etc. Most suppliers do not even have meter operators, data collectors etc."

 

And this is of interest to the average consumer how? Like I said, consumers want to know that when they turn on their gas/electric it works and if there is a problem, it is sorted out, and they are paying a fair price.

 

"Their website states that they will undercut and get cheaper deals."

 

Where exactly does it say that?

 

"I repeat it appears that UW are NOT a licenced supplier but more that likely are an agent converting people across to the cheapest supplier"

 

Again, not true. UW are licensed to sell energy (under the npower license). UW does not simply direct customers to whoever may be the cheapest at the time. Sorry, but it does not work that way.

 

On a personal level, this is how I see it.

 

My gas works, my electricity works, my internet works and my telephone works....all supplied by UW. I have the discount card which means my line rental is FREE, my B/Band is FREE and all my UK calls inc 0845/0870 (exc mobiles) are FREE, even my calls to USA and Spain are FREE.

 

This thread was started as "UW [problem]"....."[problem]", don't make me laugh.

Obviously there is misrepresentation as it sems some people have been misled including you although you seem quite happy with them so good luck to you anyway.

UW definitely are not licenced to sell energy and I have supplied the name of the company that they are acting on behalf of as UW are only an agent! It seems that you have also being misled and have been completely hoodwinked. Why don't you contactr UW and ask them if this is true or are you afraid of the truth?

This is from the UW website https://www.utilitywarehouse.co.uk/home/Energy/;

 

Worried about your energy bills? Had enough of changing suppliers every few months? Looking for guaranteed long term value? Our unique "Triple Value" guarantee will give you peace of mind.

 

• For your gas, we guarantee our prices will always be lower than British Gas, wherever you live in the UK.
  
• For your electricity, we guarantee our prices will always be cheaper than the prices charged by your regional electricity supplier for the area where you live.
  
• And for your complete peace of mind, we guarantee our prices will always remain competitive compared with the cheapest standard tariffs available from the "Big 6" suppliers*
  

Numerous suppliers have Online rates which are very good in comparison to standard rates so why go for a standard rate? IMHO UW and their representatives may be misleading the consumer. I know where I sand and woudl never in a million years consider using them. as an agent, they have to get commision from somewhere so it is loaded into the standing charge and more than likelyh the standing charge will eb higher than average but the unit price may be lower. Overall when done this way it looks good but in reality the SC pushes up the annual cost of supply.

I am not trying to be provocative but just trying to set the record straight and hope that you accept it in the light.

[shining Light]

I don't know exactly how the License works, like I said, I pay for gas and electric and I receive both. I certainly don't have the time to do loads of research on things like this, however, I did find the following on the Ofgem website.

 

"Telecom Plus Pic (company registered no. 03263464) (the "Company") holds a gas supplier licence under section 7A(1) of the Gas Act 1986 ("the 1986 Act")(the "Existing Supplier Licence")."

Not sure of what is involved but it looks ok to me.

 

 

Also,

 

• For your gas, we guarantee our prices will always be lower than British Gas, wherever you live in the UK.
  
• For your electricity, we guarantee our prices will always be cheaper than the prices charged by your regional electricity supplier for the area where you live.
  
• And for your complete peace of mind, we guarantee our prices will always remain competitive compared with the cheapest standard tariffs available from the "Big 6" suppliers*
  

Where does it say UW guarantee to be cheaper than the Big Six? It appears to me to say exactly what I said in my previous post.

 

Out of interest, I do occasionally check UW prices against other suppliers and often UW are cheaper, sometimes they may be a few pounds more, prices change. Regarding online deals, yes they are a little cheaper but personally I don't like "online" accts/billing..and what about all those who don't have internet access?

 

You say you wouldn't use UW and that is fine, your choice, nothing wrong with that. Personally I like the fact that I and many of our customers can get B/Band, calls & line rental FREE every month, have the convenience of one bill and have a UK call centre to ring.

 

 

[Surfer01]

Okay as long as we disagree to agree and are both happy with that status quo!

[nottslad]

phew! thank goodness you agree on something guys!

[STUBE]

Hi

 

What does:

 

And for your complete peace of mind, we guarantee our prices will always remain competitive compared with the cheapest standard tariffs available from the "Big 6" suppliers*

actually mean? I know who the big 6 suppliers are but what does "guarantee to remain competitive" mean? I could be a supplier who is 20% more expensive than the big 6 but could deem 20% to be in the "competitive" bracket! Could someone define what "competitive" is please?

 

Also, for consumers who are not in the know, regional electricity supplier prices will always be the highest in the region. So UW claiming:

 

For your electricity, we guarantee our prices will always be cheaper than the prices charged by your regional electricity supplier for the area where you live

isnt really a brag as most suppliers in the country will be cheaper. I feel some quotes used by UW are misleading, some people who are searching for cheaper energy may be "taken in" by UW quotes. Best advice is to confirm rates before switching.

Clarification from someone from UW please?

[shining Light]

Here we go again. Ok, without boring the socks off of everyone I will try to explain. Firstly, as I previously stated UW were the cheapest supplier until for business reasons it no longer became viable to always be so.

 

The triple guarantee does as has been mentioned, regarding the other "Big 6" and being competitive, when the prices go up, UW wait and afterwards set their price at a level usually around the lower end of the majority so for example, they may be cheaper than companies A, B, C, & D, possibly the same as E and maybe slightly more than F. The same happens when the prices go down. This is just an example and obviously it could be A, B, C then D then E & F (hope that makes sense).

 

Over the course of the year you will have paid a realistic overall price, maybe a little more or maybe a litle less than if you had changed suppliers a couple of times during that period. What happened previously was for example, people would leave company C (most expensive) and go to company A (the cheapest), shortly after when new increase came into effect company A suddenly became more expensive than company C who could now possibly be the cheapest. Meanwhile company B remained a little above company A before the increase and similar to or slightly higher than B after. Hope you are following this.

 

Regarding the "local electricity supplier" always being the most expensive, you are right, but you might be amazed at how many people still use them!

 

The important thing to remember is that UW are not an energy company, they are a multi services company and as previously stated, by taking other services and/or our discount card, the saving can be BIG.

 

If you simply want cheaper electricity and are happy to have an online account, then you wouldn't be a UW customer.

 

Hope that clarifies

[Surfer01]

You seemed to have summed it up well as I could not figure out how UW through its supplier could sell for less than they were purchasing the power from one of the "Big 6". I may be wrong but I think all "small" suppliers or independent suppliers have to purchase via one of the big six and they then charge according to how much profit tyhe want to make.

No small supplier can afford to buy millions of pounds worth of power upfront as the loan to do this from a bank would be a real killer. For example, to purchase a year's supply up front for 5000 business customers would set you back over £10 million pounds!

[shining Light]

Right. UW have an arrangement witn npower, however they are often cheaper than npower! How can that be, I hear you say and you would be right to ask?

 

UW as I said before are not an energy company they provide other services too, I have no idea on the ins and outs of how the business runs, but I guess a small loss on one service could be covered by profits from another.

 

Another point to consider: UW does not spend millions on advertising (in fact it doesn't spend anything on advertising) it doesn't have a fleet of company cars and the only employed staff are those at the H.O./call centre.

[loopinlouie]

npower:eek: Yuk. They took my account over without permission, apparantly their agent did it, I still dont answer the door now because of that.

 

Does UW inform clients it is npower who will be involved?

 

Cant see it on UW website, that would be a concern for me.

Edited January 18, 2010 by loopinlouie

[shining Light]

npower:shock: Yuk. They took my account over without permission, apparantly their agent did it, I still dont answer the door now because of that.

 

Because of one dodgy salesman you now won't open the door...you are joking right?

Does UW inform clients it is npower who will be involved?

 

npower are not involved. UW buy their energy through a 3rd party as do many other companies, everything is organised by UW, billed by UW etc etc. The gas still comes from the same place, so too does the electricity.

 

Cant see it on UW website, that would be a concern for me.

 

Why??

[loopinlouie]

post 25 has you stating they are allowed to sell electricity under the npower license.

 

So how can they not be involved.

As to the not answer the door, if you went through what I did youd have concerns too, if not, good on you but we are all different.

[loopinlouie]

I feel Utility warehouse is not a necessary company. If people are happy fair enough, but not much on their site would sell it to me. As soon as you see them mentioning opportunites to make money along side stating cheapest for consumer then it raises doubts.

[shining Light]

post 25 has you stating they are allowed to sell electricity under the npower license

And post 27 shows reference to our license on the Ofgem website. Like I said, I don't know all the intricate details only that it is all above board and they are a great company to deal with.

 

Do you think each supplier has their own oil field and power plant outside their offices? It pretty much all comes from the same place whichever company you use. UW are an independent company with many third party endorsements and a growing number of happy customers.

 

"I feel Utility warehouse is not a necessary company. If people are happy fair enough, but not much on their site would sell it to me. As soon as you see them mentioning opportunites to make money along side stating cheapest for consumer then it raises doubts"

 

Not sure what you mean by "necessary company" and if you don't like them then as I said previously, that is your choice, you don't have to use them. I personally like saving an extra £27 per month, but then maybe thats just me.

 

As regards "earning money" whats wrong with that? Best thing I ever did was to get involved with UW. Presumably you have doubts about the other companies too as i often see their adverts for "salespeople" quoting "earnings potential of ..."

 

 

[loopinlouie]

I have no problems with the other companies apart from an aversion to npower. People can give their own opinions and the op mentioned a lack of customer support and phone going down, reminded me of npower and then you say uw and npower same license.

 

Of course you will champion your cause, you work for them. But I feel if much can be saved a plain call into any fuel company could find a rival dieal without leaving.

 

Nothings wrong with making money but as energy prices are sniffingly not comming down in relation to how much they pay then I feel we all have to be careful when changing. Dont trust always what said, look into it more and remember good customer service makes a difference. Maybe you want to have a word with your bosses that customer services could do with improving, might be a tick on one of your boxes, never know.

[loopinlouie]

'Minimal start up fee' from their website. You paid to sell for them?

 

How much and how many people do you have to accost to make a decent income. Please tell me the word of mouth approach does not go door to door.

[loopinlouie]

Hello guests:D

[shining Light]

'Minimal start up fee' from their website. You paid to sell for them?

Can you start a business or a Franchise or even join Kleeneze for Free? No.

This is a "business" and not a job, I get paid every month whether I work or not. I am well in profit thankyou very much with a growing income.

 

"Of course you will champion your cause, you work for them

Maybe you want to have a word with your bosses that customer services could do with improving"

At least three Top ratings in "Which" mag for customer svce...then again, I suppose all their readers could be UW distributors!

"Plc of the year" last year...Hmm could be all who were involved in the voting were also distributors

The OP had a customer service problem, i'm sorry to hear that but it happens, perhaps you can recommend a company who never have problems or make mistakes and whose customer svces are perfect? I might even transfer to them myself.

[loopinlouie]

I only asked because their video on how you can make money mainly refers to people saying how much of an income they have made from word of mouth sales. just thought you would have to know a load of people to make this work. It came accross as a sort of partyplan enterprise to me. I wouldnt want the responsibility of recomending something to a friend or family incase of reprisals if things went wrong.

 

Again all companies have faults, the op had quite a problem with customer service sticking the phone down etc and I was convinced his post was genuine. It worried me how you came accross with such a defence to uw, again all companies have issue, but how many stick the phone down on people. One having the phone slammed down is damaging enough in my view when choosing who to use.

 

You were to quick of the mark to rubbish the comments in my opinion,

 

How much does it cost to set up?

 

How many people do you need to sign up to make a living?

 

Does that involve door knocking and phone calls?

 

Cant see how tonnes of distributors could be making a large income on just word of mouth. Of course that is just my personal opinion, but doesnt that count.

[shining Light]

"that is just my personal opinion, but doesnt that count"

 

It certainly does and lets face it, the world would be a very boring place if we all thought/felt the same way about everything.

 

Regarding the Op I certainly wasn't "rubbishing" his claims, like I said things do go wrong, nobody is perfect. I have never had problems myself and I do keep in contact with most of my customers, many who have been customers for years and 99% have been very happy (one did have a problem with cust svces and wasn't happy but fortunately I was able to help him resolve it). I can honestly say that all CSA are given thorough training before they are "let loose" on the customers but hey, someone has had a bad day or perhaps is verbally abused, perhaps they don't always respond the way they should and that reflects on the company as a whole. No excuse for that. Also, as of a couple of months ago, all new distributors must attend a training course.

 

Joining UW (or any other biz) doesn't guarantee success. Many join, do nothing or very little and give up, then spend the rest of their lives saying "it doesn't work" bla bla bla when the truth is, they didn't work.

 

To be honest, if you take it seriously you can make serious money, if you don't..you won't !

 

It cost £199 to join but if you introduce just 12 customers in the first 90 days you get a full refund. (At the moment, for a limited time you would actually receive double that) so you are effectively in profit immediately. Don't know of any biz you could start or Franchise you could buy that would enable you to do that.

 

Regarding the number of customers needed to make a living I honestly can't give a figure because it depends on how you build your team, it is network marketing (and no it is not a Pyramid scheme).

 

You don't need hundreds of customers yourself to earn a substantial income although some distributors have achieved this over the years. The truth is more and more distributors are now earning incomes equal to or in excess of their original job incomes but there will always be some who say "I don't believe it" which again is their choice and in my opinion, their loss. It certainly isn't for everybody.

 

"Does it involve Door knocking and phones calls?" Only if you want it to!

Very few UW distributors do door knocking.

 

Hope this answers your questions/doubts. I don't "champion" UW simply because I am a distributor but because I believe in them.

[STUBE]

It cost £199 to join but if you introduce just 12 customers in the first 90 days you get a full refund. (At the moment, for a limited time you would actually receive double that) so you are effectively in profit immediately. Don't know of any biz you could start or Franchise you could buy that would enable you to do that.

See that is where the problem starts........ MLM can work if the scheme works but how can a company refund double the money outlayed to start a business? The only way this scheme could work is if 50% of new starts fail (the fail % is probably more but I doubt figures will be supplied). Shining Light I feel you have justified the UW position but please answer the above (I doubt you will have permission to publish success/failure %'s).

 

ALTERNATIVELY COULD WE NOT GO WITH THE OPTION BELOW?

Most/All Energy suppliers spend millions of pounds on advertising - we (as a group) could stop this now:

Get Ofgem to stop all electricity suppliers to STOP fighting for business via the web, Door to Door, Advertising, Telesales etc.

 

Consumers would go to a National website controlled by ofgem which would suggest cheapest option to consumers. A national switching telephone number would also be set up (paid for by suppliers) who suggest best option (cheapest) for customers.

 

Telesales, door to door and advertisting in any way would be banned and savings made would go to lower individual supplier costs to consumers.

Costs to consumers would be much lower and they would naturally move to the cheapest without being cold called, misled on a website or harrassed.

Pity is OFGEM could do this and we all would benefit!

What do you think Guys?

 

 

 

[STUBE]

Sorry and to add:

 

If suppliers did not have to pay the cost of tv advertising, web comparison site commissions, national paper ads, telesales teams, door to door teams. How much could big companies save which would come off your energy bill?

 

It is frightening.

 

There is another way!

[Surfer01]

And post 27 shows reference to our license on the Ofgem website. Like I said, I don't know all the intricate details only that it is all above board and they are a great company to deal with.

 

Do you think each supplier has their own oil field and power plant outside their offices? It pretty much all comes from the same place whichever company you use. UW are an independent company with many third party endorsements and a growing number of happy customers.

I think you may be misleading people as UW DO NOT have a supplier licence although you keep on stating this inaccurate fact and endorsing it. UW may be a subsidiary of Telecom Plus etc but they have to purchase their power from Telecom. In effect Telecom probably buy from another supplier, i.e. the big six who have taken their cut, then Telecom takes a cut and obviously UW take a cut so somewhere along the line someone is buying the power dirt cheap. The parent company may hold a GAS supply licence but not an electric supply licence as they but their electric through Electricity Plus who in turn probably buy from Npower at a reduced rate so in effect although you are paying UW the actual supplier may be Npower.

At the moment BGAS Online on the cheapest and have been for some time but I notice that UW go to great lengths to state "standard" supply.

Oh well I guess you love them to bits and no matter how many actual true facts are demonstrated to yourself, UW will always be your leading light. Reading through everything again then I have to agree with the heading to this thread.

BTW I thought MLM or pyramid selling was illegal?

[shining Light]

Hi Stube, some interesting comments.

 

"Failure rate" I honestly don't know, and really it doesn't make any difference for the reasons I previously mentioned. The biz works, many distributors earning great incomes can testify to that but if for example, 8 out of every 10 did nothing and gave up, does that make the biz a failure? No. I know of people who spent a lot of money buying a Franchise, some are successful, others aren't, why? Probably because some tried harder than others.

 

You may be right about the failure rate, I don't know, but if you are going into a biz (any biz) with a negative attitude you will not succeed!!

 

Regarding your other idea. Sounds interesting but I doubt the many thousands who would lose their jobs would agree.

 

If suppliers did not have to pay the cost of tv advertising, web comparison site commissions, national paper ads, telesales teams, door to door teams. How much could big companies save which would come off your energy bill?

 

UW don't pay for any of the above, just the distributors.

[shining Light]

Hi Surfer01, you're back!! We seem to be covering the same old ground here and you seem convinced UW shouldn't be in business.

 

UW is Telecom Plus. Started as T+ and is still listed on LSE as such, however trading name was changed to take into account the fact they are no longer just a Telecoms company.

 

"Telecom probably buy from another supplier, i.e. the big six"

I thought I had already covered this

 

"the actual supplier may be Npower."

And they have their own oilfield and power plant to dip into???

Ask 100 people where exactly their gas/electric comes from and I bet 99 would say "I haven't a clue" because they just want to pay a fair price for a good service, they are not obsessed with irrelevant details.

 

"BTW I thought MLM or pyramid selling was illegal?"

Sorry but you thought wrong. Pyramid selling is illegal, MLM is not.There is a difference.

[tyr775]

I used to work for one of the big 6 and has today spoken to a UW distributor who was trying to sign me up, so this thread has been of interest to me in particular.

 

I can provide insight into some of the previous comments for instance.

 

Green Energy - This is usually set at a higher tariff and while not many people will bother to read the fine print, you will be getting the same standard elec you would usually be getting from the grid even though, the companies will simply offer to generate more power going into the grid from renewable sources e.g offshore wind farms.

 

Pyramid system - It strikes me this is in fact a pyramid system, as you sign over customers for making you profit, but the real money is in signing and coaching distributors who in turn have to sign and coach distributors forming a many levelled chain.....hmmm

 

There is no doubt that done correctly this can work, however its still a pyramid system, i think the term has been bad mouthed so while it is a pyramid system UW are just trying to steer clear of using the wording!

 

Customer Complaints - ALL energy companies suffer from this. BG were panned in the press, Npower were panned in the press, Scottish power were panned inthe press. Ofgem even brought a supercompaint against ALL energy suppliers a few years back. This simply brings in reaction from the suppliers and new codes of conduct. You will always get complaints, no matter what you do, the trick is to minimise this as much as possible. Which? magazine seem to think UW are the best service wise currently. However with a 1% market share they have many less customers, therefore less complaints, i'd like to see some figures for % complaints as compared to total customers. That would be the best indication IMO.

 

Your local distributor - You may find UW does offer cheaper than the local distributor, but can it provide the same level of service? As alluded to previously none of the suppliers own the meters, this is usually transco for gas and meter+ for elec although there are other suppliers of these now and i believe BG have some of their own meters. The issue here is for service calls, as if Joe Bloggs calls SWALEC and although he is supplied by them but doesnt live in a SWALEC core supply area he lives in Northern Scotland, a Scottish Power core supply area, chances are the metering calls are provided by a scottish power engineer, the onus is on SWALEC to ensure service, but reality is they have limitted control over this. In my previous job with the big 6 supplier, we had major issues with getting them to carry out call outs in scotland as the scottish power engineers wouldnt play ball, this was a blatant tactic to retain and probably gain back leaving customers. Its a dirty unethical trick but it happens all the time and from this as UW are small and wont have their own engineers anywhere, i'm wondering how difficult smoe of this would be wherever you lived if you encountered problems.

 

For the billing problem customers in previous posts

 

The agreed usual term for moving supply is around 28 days give or take, you will find agreed reads are done where no information is provided by either the previous supplier or the householder on start of contract. Did you provide your own reads? The meter details are often held wrong centrally. This is not your suppliers fault (whoever you are with) as the supplier doesnt own the meter, without confirming details, they go from the central register, which if its wrong gives the wrong data. This can be sorted out and further problems should be avoidable, it depends on how robust your suppliers computer system is and what accountability is given to individuals in the organisation. I cant comment on UW's ability to do this, but the company i worked for was a nightmare as departments were often in different locations so your first contact with an advisor in the call centre in the NE was actioned on the system but then sat in a queue with a massive backlog to be picked up by a guy upstairs who allocated it to a section who could deal with it in leeds, who would then call to clarify details of meters etc and possibly get through to someone or maybe not, this all took time, a meter visit was then booked and possibly the customer wouldnt be in to allow access despite agreeing the date as they would be given a timeslot and would likely not stay in for 5 hours if it was a 8-1 appt and they didnt come right away, then another visit needs to be arranged with a lead time for the booking for the engineers set by the meter company not the supplier, having got the correct details it then sits in a queue to be actioned by someone in Ipswich who has to argue the case with the central registery company who has different details so books their own visit to ensure details are correct etc etc.

 

Most of this unfortunantly isnt down to the supplier but its a process they have to follow.

 

If you have suffered from this its unfortunate, i know i wouldnt like it but there is often little the company could do.

 

Customer service takes the brunt of the compaints and often knows little about the working behind these though, and the customers get frustrated and leave supply, in actual effect this is more likely ot further complicate things though as someone new then has to pick it all up from scratch and the process starts again.

 

Hope this clarifies for people!