I committed benefit fraud

[snowi]

hi all

i am being charged in a court for benifit fraud for over 3 years at a total of 25 thousand

charge one is 8 thousand wich i am paying back

charge 2 is 8 thousand and charge 3 is for 9 thousand

i admited this under a caution to the dhss

i am now working legaly and off all benifits apart from working tax credits wich i never new i was entittled to . does anyone know what could happen to me i worried sick now thanks all x

[yourbank]

Try this page 76

http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/complete_compendium.pdf

[yourbank]

I have made an error and I apologise. The link is for 2003 compendium. There may have been some updates that I have not read

Sentencing Guidelines website-Guidelines-Other guidelines-Court of Appeal

That was my original source

[snowi]

forgot to ad i wont and never will have this money how can i repay this and if i was sentanced to a jail term do you still have to repay the money or is the debt stopped, also if they take me to court under a procceds of crime how do they get the money if i have none xx

[snowi]

I have made an error and I apologise. The link is for 2003 compendium. There may have been some updates that I have not read

Sentencing Guidelines website-Guidelines-Other guidelines-Court of Appeal

That was my original source

thanks xxx

[yourbank]

You need to be honest when you go to court, including circumstances as to why you claimed what you were not entitled to. Explain everything and be honest. I will see if I can get someone here who might know, because I do not know the answers to the other questions you are asking. When are you in court(maybe approximate, ie within a week/month etc,etc so as not to be too specific)?

[snowi]

hi iv been and lawyer got it adjorned till 3 sept then hes wrote to me and siad ill get another date hes had it ajorned again

he told me this at first meet and said hell get it for around xmas time and that would give me a chance to get the money

hes living in another planet .

iv had enough now as my dads terminal i want this done now and not at xmas when things might get worse thanks all xxx

[surprise]

I was recently told of a case where someone was actually working for himself and had a very successful business and was claiming benefits for 4 years. When he was cautioned and, because he had been very co-operative, he walked away with community service.

 

It would seem that the key is being co-operative and honest and remorseful.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes any sentence will reflect your cooperation and admissions early on.It would also take into account of your ability to repay.

The Court will also be looking to see how you used the money-that will be a mitigating factor.

Not all cases require the overpayments to be repaid-but there is almost always costs awarded.

Your best bet is to keep this in the Magistrates Court...

Its quite rare to see custodial sentences handed out in most cases for a first offence-there now appears to be a greater use of community service orders.

Have a look at this-its a list of cases and the results from Wrexham-and is soley Benefits Fraud related.

 

Maybe you should consider asking them to withdraw charge 1 since you are already paying that back.

 

 

WCBC: Previous Prosecutions Obtained by the Anti-Fraud Team

Edited August 28, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[saviour1263]

i commited benefit fraud when my wife died and hada nervous breakdown then my children put into fostercare they called me into the office and i explained in a flood of tears that yes i was still claiming for the children even though they weren't living with me but i was still buying things as if they were like clothes for them and stuff liek that it ended they understood and im paying it back out of my working dla the best thing is to be honest and also bring up the fact about your father being terminal etc and how things are affecting you .

[snowi]

Im still here my case keeps gettin put back for god knows why

the lawyer thinks its for the best , untill my dad passes

can anyone tell me urgently is there a time limit from when i was given the papers by the police i looked at the glasgow web site the gov one and looked at benifit fraud and on one part it says something about a time limit for prosecution

mines is being held at glasgow sheriff court the lawyer told me i can get 1 year now after speakin to the PF hes got it reduced to 17 thousand and told me if i dont pay it in a lump sum im looking at 18 months will i take my chances myself as theres no way i can get that money xxx

[surprise]

There was a case in our local paper (West Mids) where a woman had been defrauding housing benefit for 10 years, total £57,000, she got a 12 month suspended sentence and was paying it back at just under £12 per week = she would be 112 when the debt would be paid. The circumstances was that she had been living with her partner for 6 years, who was working on a low income. The Judge said the sad thing about this is if you had have declared it there would have been other benefits that you could have claimed legitimately.

 

I'm not sure how long they can keep putting it off though.

 

I think the main thing is when you go to court is to ensure that you are contrite and to offer to make amends.

[snowi]

im still attendin court for this iv had background reports done then back again for procceds of crime on my home how long can this go on im off work now with stress im back AGAIN on 30 june

[MARTIN3030]

I am not up on the Scottish system-but generally you could get some idea by looking at the sentencing policies of that Court-have you done any searches on the net ?

So theres 8 grand come off-is that one of the 3 original amounts ?

You are paying the first one off you say ?

My guess is that that one will be taken into consideration-or is it that one thats been dropped ?

 

 

 

http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=glasgow+benefit+frauds&fr=ytff1-&u=www.bfi.gov.uk/reports/2007/bfi/glasgow/download/bfi_glasgow03-2007.pdf&w=glasgow+benefit+benefits+frauds+fraud&d=M9XlpkxISwJC&icp=1&.intl=uk

Edited May 19, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

There does not appear to be much on recent activities.

Interesting I found a consultation report from 2007.

 

Link is in previous post.

[mrsfoot]

Hi

 

Although I can not condone the act of fraud, I have managed to find some information which you may find useful.

As it is quite juicy I would suggest taking your time reading it. The main section is clause 17 Social Security Fraud Act. From there you will need to find further reading based on the info in that clause.

 

Social Security Fraud Act

 

Social Security Administration (Fraud) Act 1997 (c. 47)

 

Althou they are English Acts they do have Scottish sections in for readisee 13 - 16 for advice.

 

Good luck. Be honest. Get to your solicitor and ask for an update. Co-operate. Inform them of family matters. Show a willingness to repay your debt.

 

Mrsfoot

[MASRSTER09]

Im Currently In A Similar Situation My Name Has Been Cleared But My Ex Hasnt We Were Entitled To The Benefits At The Time Although He Did Attend His Work Place Whilst On Benefit He Even Did The Odd Job But He Never Had Any Income From This He Was Only Helping A Friend We Told All This To The Officer When He Interviwed Him Under Caution Then This So Called Friend Decided To Provide The Dss With False Dates For My Ex To Be Working This Friend Got So Carried Away With Providing This Info That Ge Forgiot That My Exs Mum Passed Away On One Of The Dates He Had Down As Working Even Though We Provided All This Info To The Dss They Still Took Him To Court Hes Had Two Dates Adjourned And Is Due To Go On The 27 May What Are His Chances Of Being Cleared Of This Allegation And Walking Away The Funny Side Is That My Ex In The 25 Yrs That He Worked Paid All His Taxes And Ni Contributions And This Was The First Time In His Life That He Claimed Any Kind Of Benefit What Is The Worst That Could Happen To Him

[surprise]

It depends on how much is involved and how much evidence they have. I think the key is being co-operative and remorseful. Recent cases I have read about have involved community service and paying back the amount in question.

[MASRSTER09]

The amount involved is just over 6k they only have false work dates and the statement that my ex gave under caution he never denied working but we are debating the fact that he had no income from this also the false dates that have been provided there is no official contact details for anyone to be contacted and dates and amounts and other information has been alterd after the letter was printed we tried approaching this company for a more detailed report on the letter that had been provided by them but guess what the company gad closed down this was over a year ago the letter the dss have is anything but reliable other than that they have nothing

[MARTIN3030]

Decisions as to whether to prosecute in the Courts will have been decided at a senior level it would be suprising if they are going to push it to Magistrates unless they thought they had a good case.

[Bustard]

unfortunately it's getting hysterical http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3151179/One-day-One-court-16-benefit-fraud-cases.html that's nasty about the guy in the wheelchair ****ing comic ! - they assume everyone's got a mental age of 8 , Ok not disclosing savings was naughty .

 

http://freelawanswer.com/law/3157-law-3.html

 

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080125074833AAq819v

 

Most importantly is that the DWP & LA's botch things .....you have play solicitor yourself and start picking the brains of CAB & WR advisors and Solicitors through Google searches .....then armed with that information , start picking holes , challenging & contradicting everything . They are under a lot of pressure , some are over zealous , too judgemental and Black & White ; some Investigators take it on themselves to play Solicitor but tend to be too obtuse , lacking angles , contradicting themselves ...and will make mistakes & lay things on too thick .

 

What annoys me though is that tax evaders can sometimes negotiate deals and the rules tend to be lax - Vodaphone for example - but the orders are from Central Govt to make examples of people . Tax Fraud and avoidance is a far worse problem . Look at that Toff Osborne having the temerity to lecture people whilst he was operating on the edge of the law at the very best and Lord Ashcroft the non dom donating to that Bullingdon Club nasty shower .....

Edited November 1, 2010 by Bustard

[Gemstar]

Hello, maybe I could add a little more insight into what could happen. This case, which incidentally was a close friend of mine, was strange at the time, and subsequent to it, the law changed which had it been in operation then, no offence would have been committed other than failing to notify but with no financial loss to the state.

 

In the times before Income Support, Supplementary Benefit was the norm.

The gist of it is that my friend started a small one man business from nothing in 1986 whilst claiming a means tested benefit along with mortgage interest relief and Rates Rebate (CTB)

 

He literally earned nothing. What income he had coming in was exceeded by expenses. This went on for about 18 months. When he became established and believed that he could survive on what income he was earning, he ceased all claims (1988).

 

Some two years or so later (1990) he started getting telephone calls from his customers, friends and family saying that the DSS (as it was then) had a guy asking an awful lot of questions about him. He thought nothing more about it, until 1991, he started to lose customers. A few explained to him why saying that this guy from the DSS was saying that he was being investigated for benefit fraud and any body that was involved with him was likely to be looked at as well, unless they gave statements about him.

In late 1991, this DSS guy turned up one evening (without an appointment) and demanded that he discuss the benefit claim that was in force between 1986 and 1988. He produced a whole lot of signed and cashed giros for him to confirm that they were cashed by him, which he did. The guy then left.

 

A few months later and still having telpehone calls from people, he was awoken at 4.30am one morning with someone banging on his front door. It was the Police - about 10 of them with two cars and a van outside.

They made him get dressed and told his wife and children to do the same.

 

Then they proceeded to search his home, his car, his garage and shed. They removed bundles of paperwork. He was handcuffed and put in a car and driven to some rented rooms he used as an office. That was searched and nearly everything was removed.

 

He was taken to the Police station and detained for over a day whilst answering questions. He did not have a solicitor as he thought that it was a mistake and a big joke.

 

Anyhow after 30 hours or so in the cells, he was bailed to comem back in a month.

 

Now not having any files or work documents, he could not work.

 

He went back after a month and was charged with Theft between 1986 and 1988.

 

Moving quickly onwards it went to Magistrates who sent it to Crown Court. Another year or so later - 1993, he pleaded guilty to the theft of £12,000 in total.

 

He was sentenced to 12 months in prison, and on release after serving nearly 10 months he had a further 2 years of probabtion with an order that the £12,000 plus costs be repaid within 28 days. That was not possible. He sold everything he had which still left £9,000 outstanding.

He was taken back to court and put back in prison for another 28 days AND still had to find the £9,000.

Eventually he borrowed it off me!!

 

The upshot of this is that because they kept all his paperwork until after the Crown Court hearing his business folded leaving him in serious debt.

 

Like the other poster, he was told that if he had gone about it in a different way, they calculated that he would have had grants etc totalling £6,000 plus help with the rates.

 

The PS to this is that he appealed against the order to the Social Security Commissioners and produced accounts, books and records covering the years 1986 - 1988 which clearly showed sales, but expenses exceeded them to the extent that he lost money in those two years. Nothing happened he still had to pay the money.

 

The law was eventually changed in that if working for yourself now you are allowed to deduct reasonable expenses from the money earned. In his case, this showed that he didn't earn a penny!!! He would now, still get full Income Support!!!!

[Bustard]

Very Enlightening & Interesting Post , in the mid to late 80's there was no Internet & no eBay . That guy from the Social sounds very petty , over zealous and vindictive , mouthing off and bullying people with veiled threats . I know that company type , all p*** & wind , there may be issues about confidentiality and discretion .

 

Apparently people bid for Supermarket Shopping vouchers for say £50 or so http://www.paidtoshop.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-57710.html , I'm told they do this as they are frightened of the DWP or LA's finding out about them making a quid or two here and there selling on eBay and being subject to investigation and possible court cases . I know of people that do this as they know they wouldn't work again for somebody else because of their age in this " MacJob " deskilled Britain .

 

I'm not condoning genuine fraud but you are always likely to get Black and Grey Economies especially in this age of austerity and at least they are working , not being the idle spongers that The Sun & The Daily Sieg Heil pontificates about . Morality can be relative and unless people rise above all this moral panic , there will always be the seeds of seething injustice .

 

As for the guy in the wheelchair snapped from a distance with a telephoto lens by The Sun's paparazzi , he had a motorbike accident , did someone in a car pull out in front of him ? , had he been working to pay for that motorbike and to keep it on the road and use it to get to and from work ? . Unfortunately if The Sun said a donkey had five legs , some people would take that as gospel .

 

Secondly they are just a small part of the bigger picture , the same indignant , prissy and self righteous people that read The Express & Mail are quite happy to pay Tradesmen or Mobile Hairdressers cash , one book for me ; one for the Revenue . The only difference is that it's public money that could have been collected rather than monies that have been already spent on whatever .

Edited November 3, 2010 by Bustard