Orange - end of contract and pay as you go sim

[jody123]

Hi All,

 

Hoping someone can help....

 

I took out an 18 month contract with Orange in December 2006...I then bought an iPhone and continued to pay the orange bill as I knew it was on an 18 month contract, even though it has barely been used since December and not at all since March 2008.

 

In April I called Orange and told them I wanted to cancel the contract at the end of the 18 months, which would be around mid June - they asked me if I wanted the same number on a pay as you go sim - I said no - so they said they would send me a new pay as you go sim so i could use the phone (my son uses it primarily to play games on).

 

I cancelled the direct debit in June, but received a normal bill for June - July - which I ignored thinking that it was just the system catching up with the cancellation.

 

Today I received another bill and telling me that I now owed them £72.00 for June and July. I called them and explained that I had cancelled the phone in April to take effect at the end of the contract....which they confirmed...however they said that as I had a pay as you go sim this needed to be registered before the old account could be closed...I said surely I only had to give them the 30 days minimum notice as required under the contract.

 

They told me that unfortunately that was not the case as it was the same number on the pay as you go sim, that I was advised that I had to register the sim card to cancel the contract and that I would have to pay the bill....I corrected them saying that a. it was a completely different number, b. the two accounts are not connected and c. no one told me that. They told me that the contractual account could not be cancelled until the pay as you go sim was registered...the phone was used for the first time at the weekend - five pounds was added to it and it works fine and it still hasn't been "registered". They said they had tried to argue for me to get the money back but it was money I owed.

 

I tried to argue that the phone hadn't been used and they were aware that I had cancelled and given the 30 days notice of cancellation - even though they tried to argue that I had not given enough notice - I called on 25 April - the contract expired on 14 June - so I had given more than enough notice. I eventually asked for their complaints department as it was clear I was getting no-where...they put me on hold again - and then told me that the account had now been cancelled...I asked how had they done this if they say that they couldn't cancel it before unless the other phone was registered? They declined to answer.

 

Anyone know if this is legal and whether I have to pay the £72 they are demanding, even though I cancelled the phone, they have a record of it and I'm sure it doesn't day anywhere in the contract that I have to register a pay as you go sim before the contractual account can be cancelled.

 

Jody123

[Hoose]

chances are the person who processed the cancellation did not update the systems correctly.

 

You say they have now cancelled the contract, have they credited the 72 that they said you owed

[Hoose]

technically, if their systems are waiting for a sim-swap, then as far as they know, the contract phone is active. if you had flat out declined the sim (hard to do i know they can be persuasive) then it would have been closed down.

 

PAYG sims DO have to be registered, and so TECHNICALLY they can claim you are liable for the amount. however, as it would appear you were advised incorrectly of the procedure for the sim swap, then they should concede this and cancel the outstanding amount.

[Yellow160]

Hi,

 

The PAYG sim card would need to be registered for the old contract to end. Once the payg sim is registered the contract sim becomes inactive. Im sure there is something in the T+C's to advise that the payg needs to be registered to deactivate your old account otherwise you are still liable for the line rental and call charges untill you register the new sim.

 

If you hadnt requested a payg sim your contract would have ended at the end of the 30 days notice automatically.

[jody123]

The payg sim has still not been registered (as far as I am aware), yet it works - why does it therefore need to be registered?

 

The PAYG sim is nothing to do with the 18 month contract surely - its a different phone number, there's nothing in the pack that came with it that says that is HAS to be registered, and nothing that says unless you register it your old contract won't be cancelled...

 

No they have not credited the £72 pounds - they have put a note on the account to say that it is in dispute and I have also asked them to note that if this affects my credit rating then I will take them to court for damages. I cancelled the contract - it should not be on a cancel it and register the other sim - they can see that no calls have been made on the contract account at least since March...

 

As far as I am concerned this is a [problem].

[jody123]

I have just been on the orange site and it says nothing there about the contract not being terminated if a PAYG sim is not registered/activated. It just says that I have to give one months notice - which I did.

 

Hmmm - maybe this is one for "Don't get done - get Dom"

[Hoose]

jody,

 

the sim they will have sent out will just be a standard PAYG sim pack. they do not do seperate ones for swapping end of contract numbers onto.

 

they should have advised you in some way of the necessity of activating / registering the sim and getting the number swapped onto it, if they did not, then you can use this as a defense, say you were improperly advised and ask them to cancel the debt.

 

Hope this helps, and good luck

[OrangePrimate]

Sorry Jody, you have been given some conflicting advice here!

 

please take this as correct from an employee of 6 years plus that does know the process!!

 

When requesting disconnection 30 days notice has to be given, it cannot be prossessed any earlier than that as there isnt a method of 'holding' the disconnection. calling in April to cancel for 14 June would have been too early. you would have needed to call on or around 14th May.

 

If you are not keeping your contract number THEY DO NOT SEND OUT A SIM CARD! there is no need to and Orange are not obliged too. the contract is simply cancelled and ceases to work on day 30. if you wish to use a payg sim card in the phone, it is down to the customer to request one from sales.

 

If however you do want to keep the contract number, a payg sim card IS sent out, about 7 days before the disconnection date. It is a paired sim card to the account and the sim number being sent is logged on the system. you then have to call in to a specific dept and the number transfer is completed with the contract cancelling the minute the number is moved to the payg sim. there are instructions ref this in the small booklet that comes with the sim card (page 6 i think).

 

The payg sims they send will activate with a different number (thats why the one you have is active) if set up in standard payg fashion but this will not have any impact on the contract as it was not done through the correct dept.

 

As for the charges - if all had gone well you would still have had to pay for all line rental up to the 14th June. the final bill would have reflected the cancellation and refunded any line rental paid in advance when July bill produced.

 

Due to the 'misunderstanding' they could have effected an immediate disconnection because it had now gone past the 14 June and it would have been clear that the payg sim being sent but not registered through correct channel was only reason in this instance the contract continued.

 

Your only claim on the bill would be for any charges from 14th June to date it was actually terminated. as above, you would have ben liable for all charges up to then regardless.

 

my suggestion is you wait for the next bill to be produced, as it will now show adjustments with the line rental refund, and then work out how many days you have been charged from 14th June to now and ask them to credit that amount. you will then only owe what is outstanding from May/June

 

I'm afraid you will owe some, but thankfully not a whole £72!!

[jody123]

Hi OrangePrimate,

 

Thanks for the detailed response above.

 

The guy I spoke with knew that I was outside the 30 days to the end of the contract but he said it would cancel automatically at the end of the 18 months now that I have given the notice. Which did not happen.

 

My bills were paid half in arrears half in advance so the first payment which they say is outstanding for June (due 2 July) covers the period 17 June to 16 July....so in fact Orange owe me about £3.00

 

If I recall correctly he asked me whether I wanted a sim sending with the same number but on PAYG - I said there was no need for the number to be the same....could he not just send me a PAYG sim with a new number. At no time did he say that the old contract would not be cancelled as requested if I did not register the new sim....could you tell me whether there is any legal requirement to register a PAYG sim? I've also looked through the booklets that came with the sim - it makes no mention of registering it to cancel an old contract, nor indeed that it has to be registered...

 

Can you advise?

 

Regards,

 

jody

[jody123]

I wrote to Orange at the address they advised over the telephone - I received not response - but today I received a demand from Northern Debt Recovery - part of Orange - they have told me that I must pay the money in 7 days and that they have recorded a default on my credit file.

 

I did not think that they could do this if the account was in dispute - can they?

 

How do I get them to respond to my letter in which I dispute that I owe them any money for the reasons posted above?

 

Jody

[tinkxabell]

Hi Jody123,

 

I know this issue was a year ago but myself and my partner are having a similar situation at the moment and I just wondered what the putcome was of your dispute.

 

My partner and I at seperate times requested to end our contracts and gave our 30 day notice. We both got sent sim cards that we didnt request and now in total are being asked for £300! as we dint register the sim cards that we didnt want in the first place! What the outcome with yours was may just help me know what we have to come thanks x

[jody123]

Hi Tinkxabell,

 

Apologies for not replying sooner - I haven't been on line. I eventually wrote to the CEO of orange - explained what had happened....he wrote back, told me I was in the wrong (which I would still dispute) but would give me a refund of the money "I owed".

 

I've got a copy of all letters that I sent to orange over this matter (in pdf format) - spanning months...it was only after I'd written to the CEO that I got resolution. I think I've attached them to this post!!

 

Good luck with fighting your corner - persistence is the key and not backing down....

 

Jody

Letters_to_Orange.pdf

[locutus]

Good result Jody! Very nice and assertive letters, and I feel the same way about getting a "template" letter in response to a problem Glad they sorted it (even though they maintained they were not at fault!). I trust no adverse information was put on your credit file.

[aerv74]

Hi All, well it has happened to me today? I rang Orange to give them 30 days notice 15/02/10, I was sent a PAYG sim, but I was not told I HAD TO register

the sim? it is still unopened? my 18 month contract finished on 15/03/2010?

I have today received a bill for £65? I rang Orange and they said "because I didn't active the PAYG sim, my monthly contract was not ended" they are calling me back tomorrow? people don't need this? just a bit of honesty from their rep? all he had to say was "if you don't register your PAYG sim, your monthy contract will not end!"

[Jo_L]

I realise this is an old thread but I today was told similar! My response in an email to customer services is as follows. I will take it further if necessary.

 

 

7th June 2012

 

Acct No *******

Mob No ***** ******

 

Hi there,

 

Today I rang up Orange, the lady I spoke to said “this was put though as a disconnection” and I was put though to a guy called **** (as a point of contact for you) at about 17.50.

 

My query was that on the 15th of January 2012 I rang to cancel the above account giving a good one month’s notice before my contract ended.

I explained to the man that dealt with my call in January that I had got a better package than the Orange site could do me. He agreed I had got a good deal.

However I notice on doing our accounts that you are still taking money from our bank account for this dead account that I cancelled back on the January 2012.

 

I quote your terms and conditions below.

4 your rights to terminate this Contract

terminating your Contract after the Minimum Term

4.1 You may terminate your Contract to expire at any time after the Minimum Term by giving us at least one month's notice. You are free to restore your Contract throughout this notice period, should you change your mind.

 

I duly gave good time in order to cancel this account before finishing my 24 month contract. However in my phone conversation with ****. I was informed that I needed to activate a pay as you go sim to cancel the above contract. What nonsense is that? **** offered to send me out another pay as you go sim to cancel the contract. Why would I need another sim and phone if I have a new one? I have in any case passed the handset onto my son.

 

You are stealing money from us!

 

I look forward to your response

 

Jo L*****

 

In their terms and conditions about ending a contract there is no mention of faffing with a PAYG sim card to terminate the contract.

 

I will let people know how I get on with them.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Jo_L
Missed a point out

[aerv74]

Hi Jo_L,

 

well I'm sad to hear you are being treated the same way I was? however when I spoke to Orange at their head office, and told them in no uncertain terms I thought this was disgraceful , and they agreed? I got an apology letter and another letter confirming my account way closed, thankfully I've heard nothing since then. I still have the unopened sim they sent me. the only advice I can give you is "BE A PAIN" pester them until you get a result, if this doesn't work I would try trading standards, but like I said, I explained to them the issue I had and they agreed with me? looks like the billing and accounts department never get to meet? or swap data? best of luck with your problem. as if life isn't hard enough without this crap!!!!!

 

best regards

aerv74

[2Grumpy]

I know what I would call somebody who dips their hand into my wallet, even if I had previously given them permission to do so but revoked that ... Give them hell. Tell them what you want as compensation too.

 

If you cancelled the direct debit first, check that they haven't registered a default on your credit reference files!

[antiorangenetwork]

Hello

 

I have tried to email Orange on the site but they were experiencing a technical problem and I do not wish to waste my time and money to contact them again.

 

Basically I had my first PAYG mobile SIM on monthly direct debit few years back and I have decided to terminate it. Therefore, I contacted their free customer service using my Orange mobile number to terminate it. All I could remember was speaking to a male operator and I have given more than 30 days notice to terminate the account, as I was informed and COMFIRMED. (Obsivouly he failed to perform the termination, which leads me to all the troubles today!)

 

Yesterday, I received a very disturbing text from a debt collector BGW that I owe Orange £60. As soon as I knew that, I contacted Orange customer service on the same day to clarify the whole situation. I was being kept on hold for ages on the phone and finally, I was informed by the customer service that all they have was an inactivated account for that number and no other record of anything. I was also informed by her, that they have closed my account and transferred it to BCW group, and therefore BSW should hold the details, which did not make any sense at all

 

I followed her instruction and contacted BSW about it and they demanded me to show them the proof of cancellation.

 

1. It was done over the phone using the same SIM, and Orange customer service cannot trace back any information of the SIM (apart from its inactivated status), which is absolutely ridiculous!

 

2. No letter was issued to me about the cancellation of the account.

 

I feel like I was victimised in this case and I should take this further. I should not be punished over the negligence of an Orange staff, who failed to terminate my account and the fact that Orange does not retain any conversation of the mobile phone. I was being pushed back and forth between Orange and BSW!!

 

It was my first PAYG Orange sim card and I doubt I would recommend Orange to anyone after what I need to go through today! I was absolutely mortified and disappointed with Orange. I am stuck and I feel like I am in a no win situation. Please advice and thank you very very much in advance.

 

Thank you once again.

[2Grumpy]

Hello

 

I have tried to email Orange on the site but they were experiencing a technical problem and I do not wish to waste my time and money to contact them again.

 

Basically I had my first PAYG mobile SIM on monthly direct debit few years back and I have decided to terminate it. Therefore, I contacted their free customer service using my Orange mobile number to terminate it. All I could remember was speaking to a male operator and I have given more than 30 days notice to terminate the account, as I was informed and COMFIRMED. (Obsivouly he failed to perform the termination, which leads me to all the troubles today!)

 

Yesterday, I received a very disturbing text from a debt collector BGW that I owe Orange £60. As soon as I knew that, I contacted Orange customer service on the same day to clarify the whole situation. I was being kept on hold for ages on the phone and finally, I was informed by the customer service that all they have was an inactivated account for that number and no other record of anything. I was also informed by her, that they have closed my account and transferred it to BCW group, and therefore BSW should hold the details, which did not make any sense at all

 

I followed her instruction and contacted BSW about it and they demanded me to show them the proof of cancellation.

 

1. It was done over the phone using the same SIM, and Orange customer service cannot trace back any information of the SIM (apart from its inactivated status), which is absolutely ridiculous!

 

2. No letter was issued to me about the cancellation of the account.

 

I feel like I was victimised in this case and I should take this further. I should not be punished over the negligence of an Orange staff, who failed to terminate my account and the fact that Orange does not retain any conversation of the mobile phone. I was being pushed back and forth between Orange and BSW!!

 

It was my first PAYG Orange sim card and I doubt I would recommend Orange to anyone after what I need to go through today! I was absolutely mortified and disappointed with Orange. I am stuck and I feel like I am in a no win situation. Please advice and thank you very very much in advance.

 

Thank you once again.

 

Hi Anti

 

You should start your own thread rather than adding to the bottom of some-one else's if you want advice