Pompeyfaith v Co-op PPI

[pompeyfaith]

Thanks HHNF and Painty,

 

That is what i though they still have not put me back in the position i would have been had i not had the ppi forced on me.

 

Ill draw up another letter tommoz and post it here for your thoughts on it.

 

Thank You both

 

Regards

 

Leon

[Paintball]

Hiya

 

As there are so many 'prying eyes' at the mo on this forum, you could PM the letter to whoever you want and copy others in too. This way, we keep our retaliation letters private but also open to whichever legit claimants on the forum wish to see them.

 

Is this OK with you?

[hellhasnofury]

OK what i'm gona do is scan and post up 4 of the loan agreements for you to look at, But what it looks like they have done is just used the figures after settlement of the loans and not taken into consideration the payments with interest before settlement.

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/COOPAGREEMENT84.jpg

 

 

With this loan it is not easy to work out their calculations relating to the APR of 11.55%. I do believe that quoting the apr is naughty naugthy.

 

Anyway it appears that they added about £547 in interest to the ppi premium. So if the premium cost £1691.15, plus £547 = £2,233.15 is required to place you into the position before they applied the ppi

 

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/COOPAGREEMENT83.jpg

 

 

This one is simple as it has all of the information £1,511.27ppi + 557.66 = £2,088.95

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/COOPAGREEMENT82-1.jpg

 

This one is simple as it has all of the information. £887.02 ppi + £197.83 = £1,084.83

 

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/COOPAGREEMENT81.jpg

 

This one states the ppi premium is £1,264.88 and it appears the interest they applied would be £246 at their reate of 7.24% over 60 months. So the total you require is £1,510.88 to be back in your rightful position

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

 

Hello Leon,

 

Have had a look at the figures on these four agreements, have put a few comments above for you. I will also look at the 8% interest they applied in their letter to see if they have been seen to be fair or not

Edited November 1, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Leon,

 

This is just an example to let you see what sort of refund you should be looking at.

 

On the first agreement you posted

 

Starting on 10/07/2004 The premium they charged you £1,691.15 for the premium, then applied interest to it of about £547 bringing the total to £2,235.15. This is the amount that you are after, if you calculate interest at 8% from 18/07/04 the interest needed is £767.67. You require £3,002.82 just for this one:-D

 

Your 2nd agreement

 

Starting on 18/04/05. The ppi was £1,264.88 + interest of £246 = £1,5000.88 interest at 8% = £425.55. Total required £1,926.43:-D

 

your 3rd agreement

 

Starting on 01/07/06. ppi £887.02, + £197.81 interest = £1,084.83 interest a 8% = £203. Total required £1,287.83

 

your 4th agreement

 

Starting on 15/10/2007 ppi £1,511.27 + £557.46 interest = £2,068.93. interest at 8% = £173. Total required £2,241.93

 

It therefore appears that on these 4 loans only the amount you require is

 

£3,002.82

£1,926.43

£1,287.83

£2,241.93

 

Grand total on these four is £8,459.01:eek:

 

And I see from their letter they are offering you £5,152. Bit shocking really.

 

It looks that they have worked out their calculations based on what you actually paid on the loans, they have not fully discussed the breakdown of these calculations, no mention of any ppi and interest rebate into the balance of the new loans etc These are the figures you require to accurately work out your figures.

 

I suggest that in your letter, you ask for a breakdown of each and every loan that you had, the actual interest rate they applied, not the APR, any rebate of ppi and ppi interest applied to the balance of the new loan that you took out.

 

Please check these calcultions as it is a bit early in the morning and one of my children has pinched my calculator, so I have had to use my brain.

 

Can you give more info on the other loans please

Edited November 1, 2008 by hellhasnofury

[pompeyfaith]

Thank You HHNF for your input on those figures you have there is a settlement on each of them as i paid them off early i do not have the other 4 agreements so im gona send off for them now luckily THE COOP BANK do cave in and are easier to deal with unlike other banks.

 

Im going to send of a letter asking for the rest of the agreements and the settlement figures used on the loans as im not happy with what they are offering.

 

Ill get back soon as i get a reply.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[hellhasnofury]

Thank You HHNF for your input on those figures you have there is a settlement on each of them as i paid them off early i do not have the other 4 agreements so im gona send off for them now luckily THE Co-Op BANK do cave in and are easier to deal with unlike other banks.

 

Im going to send of a letter asking for the rest of the agreements and the settlement figures used on the loans as im not happy with what they are offering.

 

Ill get back soon as i get a reply.

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

Hello Leon,

 

You are more than welcome, it was just to give you an idea of some of the figures.

 

These companies will try to get out of paying you the least they possibly can:rolleyes: but once you know the correct figures, they will have to cough up:D.

 

I believe that you should charge them 8% from the date the loan was taken, if when you top-up the loan and there was any ppi & interest rebated into the account balance, there reducing the settlement figure of that loan. You then deduct the rebate and what you actually paid on that date, to now.

 

Example ppi & ppi interest £,1000, loan settled after 1year, actual ppi and interest paid £300, therefore £700 refunded into the loan balance.

 

You claim the interest of the £1,000 for the year, to the year it was settled and then £300 from the date of the settlement to todays date

 

I hope that makes sense to you, it did for me until I posted this:lol:

[pompeyfaith]

Hiya HHNF,

 

Got another letter from the Co-op Bank on Friday which is a load of Bull---- blatant lies and im now getting really exasperated with this people.

 

Oh they sent me the other agreements bar one which they could not find although that one was the first loan i had with them going back to 1999 but the ones they sent are small photo copies which i need a magnifying glass for lol

 

Ill post them on here but im not sure if they will be readable.

 

Ill also post the letter on here

 

im trying my hardest with the PPI Spreadsheet but as you say with out the rebates its hard its a shame the OFT dualcalc is no longer available as that would work out the rebates.

 

uploads to follow

 

Regards

 

Leon

[alanalana]

Hello pompey,

 

how is dualcalc no longer available?

 

aa

 

I have searched and it seems the OFT dualcalc page is now empty

 

how good is that.

 

aa

Edited November 22, 2008 by alanalana
text added

[pompeyfaith]

Yes Alanalana,

 

Thats what i got an empty page i also tried searching on google but found nothing.

 

Seems the OFT dont want to help us out.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[pompeyfaith]

Ok heres the rest of the agreements if you can read them that is

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement85-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement83-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement81-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement80.jpg

 

 

And the rude Letter i got from them i.e

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opResponse191108.jpg

 

The addition of 8% interest was also included in our offer. It Would Appear that you have misread or misunderstood our previous offer.

 

No i did not misunderstand as i want the contractual rates and not the 8% it would appear you misunderstood my previous letter and mis-sold these policies.

 

Regards

 

Leon

Edited November 22, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[alanalana]

Hey Leon,

 

I have it as a download with a shortcut on desktop. Apparently I can send this via email. Now I know email is frowned upon in CAG but if I can send you my shortcut I would be happy to help.

 

aa

[pompeyfaith]

Thank you Alanalana,

 

Ive sent you a message.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[pompeyfaith]

Oh Fantastic i dont know how but i found the dualcalc here

 

What's new?

 

Open page second item click dualcalc then a download window will appear.

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

Permission given by martin

Edited November 22, 2008 by pompeyfaith

[alanalana]

hey pompeyfaith,

 

as with your other thread you now own two copies of dualcalc.

 

hope it works out for you;)

 

aa

[pompeyfaith]

Ok Ive had a go with the dualcalc ,but now im even more confused as the sums just don't add up and im getting defferant interest rates to what what they used.

 

Anyone out there used dualcalc before as i could really do with a bit of help to get this sorted so i can send of my final letter to them.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[pompeyfaith]

Hello All

 

Would someone be kind and have a look at these figures as it don't and up from what i can see.

 

In the Total interest charged and the Total amount payable rows there seems to be digits missing or the figures are totally wrong.

 

I maybe wrong but they dont seem to be charging me enough.

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement83-1.jpg

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

P.S its a poor copy not what i asked for

[Paintball]

Ok heres the rest of the agreements if you can read them that is

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement85-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement83-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement81-1.jpg

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opAgreement80.jpg

 

 

And the rude Letter i got from them i.e

 

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/pompeyfaith/Co-opResponse191108.jpg

 

The addition of 8% interest was also included in our offer. It Would Appear that you have misread or misunderstood our previous offer.

 

No i did not misunderstand as i want the contractual rates and not the 8% it would appear you misunderstood my previous letter and mis-sold these policies.

 

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

Hi Pompey

 

With regard to the letter you've posted up here, from reading it I would say that compared to the letters I get from Mr Des Styles at Magic Loans, the writer is saintly and most polite indeed!! If I can get hold of a scanner and post up my letters on PhotoBucket I will ... and you will be SHOCKED indeed, m'dear

 

Anyway, Point 3 seems to be quite a concession although I would not necessarily want PPI to be deducted from what you owe; you want a cheque for the return of premiums paid plus the total interest paid on these. Their acknowledgement that if you had not been paying the insurance then you would have less debt is quite extraordinary if you think about this statement in the context of other lenders' comments to complaints made by customers in this forum.

 

I'm glad you're getting good help with the calculator Pompey

Edited November 25, 2008 by Paintball

[pompeyfaith]

Thank you paintball for you input, om still trying to work out the figures it not easy at all my head hurts lol im sitting at my desk surrounded by agreements shoddy ones at that.

 

Trying to work out the settlements is what im having trouble with even though i did ask the bank to supply these.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[hellhasnofury]

Thank you paintball for you input, om still trying to work out the figures it not easy at all my head hurts lol im sitting at my desk surrounded by agreements shoddy ones at that.

 

Trying to work out the settlements is what im having trouble with even though i did ask the bank to supply these.

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

Hello Pompey,

 

What figures are you havng trouble with. I note you state that they have not provided you with a breakdown of the rebates.. Why not, did it not come in your SAR. You really need this information get on to them asap.

[pompeyfaith]

Yes HHNF i did send an S.A.R but all i got was 4 reduced size copies of agreements.

 

The lonks to these along with a letter is on post 60, still have not got a breakdown of the rebates and interest applied to the ppi part if loan.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[hellhasnofury]

Yes HHNF i did send an S.A.R but all i got was 4 reduced size copies of agreements.

 

The lonks to these along with a letter is on post 60, still have not got a breakdown of the rebates and interest applied to the ppi part if loan.

 

Regards

 

Leon

 

Hiya Pompy,

 

Correct me if I am wrong. You have had a few loans with them. With each loan, after a period of time, you top it up with another loan. In this case the ppi would have been cancelled and any upaid portion of ppi and ppi interest would have been rebated back into the new settlement figure. You pay off this balance with part of the new loan.

 

They have sent you copy of agreements, which state the ppi amounts, and you have calcutated the amounts of ppi and ppi interest they have charged you, but they have sent you no information relating to have the rebates were calculated and effect the next loan.

 

If you sent a SAR, they have not fully complied with this request. I would be writing to them as a matter of urgency and ask them to supply you with this information

 

If you sent them a request under section 77/78 of the cca, they should have sent you a copy of your credit agreement and a statement of that account, and this would have provided you with the information that you require:grin:

 

Get on to them asap, you can only accept their offer on a part settlement basis, until they supply you with this information. If they will not, tell them you will take them to court:grin:

[marshallka]

This is the way that I was taught on how to work out how much is due back if MISSOLD

 

You first take the amount of the PPI and interest, then you take off whatever payments you have made against the PPI and then take off the REBATE received when you settled the loan. This figure is then added back to the payments made and then the 8% statutory interest is added on.

 

I have a complaint in with the FOS about the co-op at the moment and the wording of my redress is completely different to the wording of the redress that Pompey is getting.

 

Mine goes like this

 

· Calculate the amount the customer paid in total in respect of their overall loan, including any fees and penalties, as well as interest and repayments and reflecting any premium rebates allowed on cancellation of the PPI policy;

· Calculate the amount the customers would have paid in total had the original loan been taken without the additional borrowing to fund the PPI, but assuming it was settled on the same date (including any fees and penalties, as well as interest and repayments);

 

 

Pay the customer the difference between the two plus interest at 8% per annum simple from the date the loan was redeemed to the redress payment date

 

 

I hope this helps you pompey!!!

 

I note that you are not putting in your calculations the rebates you received against the PPI. These amounts are on the statements that usually come in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

Edit

 

 

 

Just had my redress figures from the Ombudsman and mine are totally wrong too. They have failed to address the interest charged on the PPI at settlement. I have written back to the adjudicator and done a complete breakdown using the rule 78 calculator as if we never had the PPI at all and it works back to within £10 difference. I have noted to the Ombudsman that these firms are NOT redressing the loans correctly at all. I will let you know my outcome here.

Edited November 26, 2008 by marshallka

[pompeyfaith]

Hello marshallka and welcome

 

Thank you for your imput any i can get is much appriciated, they failed to redress my S.A.R correctly as i did ask for a breakdown of the figures.

 

I think this claim is going to be ongoing for quiet a while because ive had 8 loans with this company some settle into another some do not.

 

I am also not interested in 8% simple im going for contractual at the rates they charged me on every PPI payment i made.

 

I am in the process of making a complaint letter to the executive director as im getting no joy from the customer feedback team.

 

If i get no answers there im taking it straight to court as i feel this is the best route for a claim that could of been easily resolved by the co-op.

 

Regards

 

Leon

[marshallka]

I have today written to the adjudicator about my redress amounts. There were 4 loans and they have redressed on 3 or the 4 as myself or them do not have the details of the 4th one.

 

They have supposedly put me back into the position as if I never had the PPI and put 8% simple interest onto the amount from the date of settlement to date now. (which I know is not the best method but I do accept)

 

I have received the amounts they are redressing on these loans today and find them all wrong. I have worked these back and taken the actual loan and whatever repayments were made against the loan (taking the repayments of the PPI off the repayments!!) and then calculated on the rule of 78 calculator and I get the difference being the amounts that I wanted from them and what they are offering me so from what I can tell they actually charge the PPI interest in the settlement of the accounts. I have had a chance to prove my figures to which I have done today and will let you know the outcome. The FOS did agree with the co-op but after sending them my figures they have said they have sent them onto the co-op for them to look into and that "they were just what they needed". Lets hope the FOS agree with me here and I will keep you posted.

[pompeyfaith]

Thank you for that and please do let me know how you get on.

 

If you want to know all the directors at the Co-op you can find them here as i believe the more people that take this up with them the better i for one will send him all my letters and replys with a strong worded letter.

 

Co-operative Financial Services (CFS) - Directors

 

Regards

 

Leon