Hi,

My Aunt took out a wfs loan and secured it against her property, she then retired from workinglife and came upon some difficulties repaying the loan amount.

She then entered into an arrangement to pay £50 a week over the phone, this didn't cover the default nor did it cover what was actually required to pay the normal installment. So she continued to rack up charges and arrears.

I did an SAR and they kindly sent a pack of stuff through, here are the bits that jump off the page so to speak:

Insurance Suitability Document:

Already has Insurance in place for Homecare24, PAP and Lifecare24, so PPI was circled NO. Yet in her statement of account that was sent, there is a PPI refund to the acc for the sum of £982.07 PPI roll up adjustment of £471.35

CCA:

Total amount of credit £15000 over a term of 60 months, monthly payment of £422.51 with a variable APR of 23.5%

Underneath section is the charge for credit section:

Total charge for credit £10350.50

Acceptance Fee £235.00

Monthly Indemnity Fee £0.00

Interest charge £10115.50

Rate of interest £24.6%

On her statement it has missed direct debit fees of £105.00

It also has a debit listed as BR SUSPENSE TRANSFER, with 96 individual transactions coming out on a single day, some for £50.00 and some for £105.00

CAPITALISATION changes from one wek to the next, sometimes as high as £240.47 or as low as £20.00

At the end of her statement it has the following entries:

25/10/2010 SETT O/C REVERSAL SASNOTONK DEBIT £235.00

25/10/2010 CAPITALISATION SASNOTONK DEBIT £51.01

25/10/2010 PPI ROLL UP ADJUSTMENT CREDIT £471.35

25/10/2010 PAYOFF - CANCELATION CREDIT £14528.65

BALANCE 0.00

Now I'm no expert but am i correct in believing that she now owes them nothing and the account can be closed?

As I write this she has just called to say that a letter arrived explaing that if she wanted to settle her account the final redemption figure is:

Total Amount Outstanding £12391.98

Rebate of fees and charges (66.04)

Default Interest £30.57

Interest to settlement £377.08

Settlement figure to pay £12733.59

Can anyone help me help her... thanks in advance.

Eoghan.

Do you have a copy of the original agreement?

Do you have a copy of the original agreement?

I do not have the original just a copy that wfs supplied, some parts are not fully legible though... does this matter?

I have also noticed a few other things, there is a cummulative amount of over £9500 under the BR SUSPENSE TRANSFER heading and there are also FEE ASSESSMENT amounts of £0.92 every month that are not declared anywhere on the paperwork present...

I've also noticed another document titled "Statement of Price - payment breakdown

These are the full repayment details for your loan. Please make sure you understand them, can afford them and feel comfortable with them before you sign and return your loan aggreement. If there's anything you're unsure about, just call your loan advisor.

Amount of Credit/Cash Advance £15000.00

Then there is a table of the Insurance Loan Breakdown, all blank.

Then a summary table as follows:

Monthly Payments £415.99

Credit/Cash Advance £6.52

Insurance £0.00

Total per month £422.51

Then it has this:

Rate of Interest 1.85%

Number of monthly payments 60

Acceptance fee £235.00

Quote valid at date

then signed.

The figures for the loan seem to add up with only minor differences but i cant get the figure for the acceptance fee to balance. Am not sure if they charged you interest on the acceptance fee or not - if they have they could be in trouble - as that is not allowed.

Would appreciate someone else looking at them.

Have you sent Welcome a CCA or an SAR request?

Did your Auntie arrange this loan herself or did someone else such a broker do it for her?

The figures for the loan seem to add up with only minor differences but i cant get the figure for the acceptance fee to balance. Am not sure if they charged you interest on the acceptance fee or not - if they have they could be in trouble - as that is not allowed.

 

Would appreciate someone else looking at them.

 

Have you sent Welcome a CCA or an SAR request?

 

Did your Auntie arrange this loan herself or did someone else such a broker do it for her?

I did the SAR on her behalf and they sent through a large pack including a photocopy of a CCA, terms which can hardly be read, statement, the quote as outlined in my previous reply above.

She did this through a welcome finance office in N. Ireland (Belfast) I think.

Are you able to scan and upload the documents removing any personal info - account numbers etc?

Also are they phoneing her or visiting her home to chase this debt or just writing.

There is a huge amount of paperwork here... what in particular would you like to see and I'll get them up.

I have written on her behalf asking them to ensure that whilst this account is on dispute, that any communication should be in writing as all phone calls and door callers will not be engaged with.

Since that letter they have called twice on the phone, no door callers and she is no longer making any payments to them until we get this sorted.

Amend and send the letter template found by clicking on the following link. It will stop them telephoning as they can become a pain.

Send it to

Complaints Department

Welcome Finance

Mere Way

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

As for the documents - the agreement, the statement of price for now - but if you can also the statements.

You will need to make 20 posts before you can upload the docs - you have made 18 so far - just do another 2 posts with the word BUMP or something similar.

Amend and send the letter template found by clicking on the following link. It will stop them telephoning as they can become a pain.

 

Send it to

 

Complaints Department

Welcome Finance

Mere Way

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

___.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

As for the documents - the agreement, the statement of price for now - but if you can also the statements.

Thanks for that...

Can you let me know what docs you need to see, I think that's 20 now too ;-)

The agreement

Statement of price

Statements (if possible)

The settelement Offer

Leave the statements untill last.

Have to pop out but will be back on either tonight or tomorrow evening.

I'll convert them to pdf tomorrow and reload.

Thanks for all your help, its appreciated.

cheers.

Sorry - the documents are too small for me to read.

 

You can open a photobucket account (its free) just google it - upload them to there and then when posting here copy and paste the IMG code.

 

There is a way to do it by converting the docs to PDF files - but im not sure how its done.

 

Here is a how to link for photobucket - you have done most of the hard work by scanning and editing out the personal info.

 

Here is link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?115-How-to-open-a-PhotoBucket-account-and-use-it-to-post-pictures-on-the-Consumer-Action-Group

Have just found on another thread instructions on uploading and posting PDF files. - hope it helps.

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

Thanks to dx100uk of the site team for these.

eogfiles.pdf

i have merged all files into one multipage pdf

dx

Hi

Thanks for that - give me day or so to have a good look through to see what i can find - maybe others can have a look too.

Will come back to you as soon as.

cheers, thank you very much.

Quick Glance it looks like it may be unenforceable but will contact someone for second opinion.

They state that the acceptance fee is £235 but that the monthly amount payable for this fee is £6.52 x 60 months = £391.20 So it looks like they added the acceptance BEFORE calculating the interest. Thats Illegal see

WILSON V FIRST COUNTY TRUST 2001 3 A11 ER 229

This high court judgement stipulates that any document or acceptance fee added to the amount of credit before calculating interest is unlawful. This stipulates that the amount of credit is then misstated, the agreement is unexecuted as it does not contain all of the prescribed terms.

 

Either that or they have simply overcharged her for the acceptance fee or miscalculated the statement of price..

The agreement should also contain the total amout payable - which i can not see on the agreement.

need to have a second opinion though as this is not my area - will have a look at other elements over next day or so.

dx100uk are you around to have a look at figures?

Hi,

Have you had any luck confirming the unenforcibility...

I've sent the account in dispute letter along with the amended bit about stop calling etc. So hopefully that should keep them off her back until I know what way to take this.

Chalkiex.

No confirmation as yet - was hoping someone would have popped in - will send a PM to couple of people.

No confirmation as yet - was hoping someone would have popped in - will send a PM to couple of people.

Cheers, I'm off today because of the snow so am available if you need any further info.

Chalkiex.

well certainly un-en due to the int on acceptance fee!

nothign unusual though for these fleecers.

pers

i'd hit them with a charges reclaim and all ins reclaim inc that PPI claim.

disregard the refund bit thats mentioned for now.

you should get a few £k's out of this back by the looks of things.

dx

well certainly un-en due to the int on acceptance fee!

nothign unusual though for these fleecers.

 

pers

i'd hit them with a charges reclaim and all ins reclaim inc that PPI claim.

 

disregard the refund bit thats mentioned for now.

 

you should get a few £k's out of this back by the looks of things.

 

dx

Excellent news, any idea how to kick start this process? Is there any chance she would get back the money she has already paid if it's unenforceable? Anything to point me in the right direction very much appreciated

Thanks,

Chalkiex.

i have megred all the docs and tidied this thread

dx

Please post a link to the agreement and statement of price please