Darren v The Clydesdale Bank

[digitalantichrist]

Hi all,

 

This is my first time here and I thought I'd let you know how I'm getting on with getting a refund of bank charges.

 

I first heard about the issue of getting your money back from the evil banks when my girlfriend's mother told me about a snippet she'd seen on GMTV. The links and research online led me to another online legal service which provided templates for letters to be sent to the bank.

 

On the 17th June I sent out a Data Protection Act request for information relating to charges applied to my account. I didn't hear from them within the statutory 40 day time limit, so I wrote to them again and informed them that I was going to seek enforcement with the Info Commissioner, which I did. On the 9th August I finally got the information I requested.

 

On the 10th I sent out a letter asking for a refund of £643.96, and received a standard foboff letter from the Clydesdale on the 17th August.

 

So, I wrote again on the 19th regarding their refusal to refund, the unlawfullness of their actions and a further request for my money back.

 

They sent a letter back again saying no. So, on the 29th August I sent a letter informing them that I was going to take court action within 7 days if I didnt hear from them. Within 7 days a letter arrived informing me that they would review the complaint and that if I wasnt happy that I could take the matter up with the FSO.

 

Today I received a letter from the Clydesdale in which they said that their position remained the same as it had been on the 17th August, and that they accepted no liability, but enclosed a cheque for £322.50, so they've offered roughly half.

 

I intend to reject their offer, tell them that they have 14 days to settle this out of court by refunding the full amount or I'll be taking legal action. If I get a refund I will be satisfied, if not then I intend to take them to court.

 

thanks

darren

[HSBCrusher]

Hello Darren, welcome aboard!

 

Good to see your claim!

 

Keep us posted!

 

Crusher:D

[MARTIN3030]

Nice work Darren.

You could drop them a line saying you will accept this as a partial settlement and give them a further 7 days to refund the rest,sending them an ammended charges schedule.

 

It is likely that they will withdraw their offer on your refusal to settle as full and final with a partial refund.

There is no need to give them a further 14 days since you have already been reasonable in your timescale with them.

[digitalantichrist]

So, I wrote the bank this on the 13th

 

"Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your letter dated 11th September, 2006.

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, totaling £643.96

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a Sheriff Court claim if necessary.

 

This letter before action being taken is to inform you that you have until the 27th September, 2006 to respond with a full refund of the requested amount before court action commences. You are reminded that there will be no extension to this timescale.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully"

 

 

 

And I got this in today from them.

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 13th September 200 advising that you have accepted the cheque tendered by the Bank as "payment to account" only and not as full and final settlement as indicated in the acompanying letter.

 

I would advise that the Bank's position remains unchanged from that mhich was stated in our final response dated 11th September 2006, a copy of which is enclosed for ease of reference (which it wasn't, ha!). I would therefore reiterate that encashment of the cheque, which was tendered in full and final settlement of your claim against the Bank, will be taken as acceptance of this.

 

Yours" yadda yadda...

 

 

So, what to do?

I'm not cashing the cheque.

I want the full amount levied against me returned.

Do I send out a final letter telling them that if I dont get a full refund by the 27th I will be taking court action, do start proceedings now, or do I wait until the due date and see what happens?

[MARTIN3030]

If the deadlines are all up then there are a couple of options open to you.

 

If this were me though I would return the cheque with a covering letter and start the moneyclaim.If only to keep things straightforward.

 

If you keep the cheque it means making ammendments and also goes with their terms.

 

You have been clear in your instructions that you want nothing less than a FULL refund.

 

If you decide to keep the cheque and ammend the partics of the claim,then my gut feeling is they will use this as stalling tac

[digitalantichrist]

thanks for the advice.

I'll write the covering letter and post it and the cheque back to them on Monday.

[digitalantichrist]

So, no cheque arrived today. I guess its off to my local court now.

[digitalantichrist]

Hi there. I was hoping maybe any of you guys could help.

 

I'm taking the Clydesdale Bank to the small claims court in Scotland and have lodged my summons with the local sheriff court. A week or so later I received in the post copies of Farm 1 and Form 1b, stamped and dated with the return and hearing date.

 

What I want to know is how will I know if my summons have been served (delivered) on the bank?

 

Also, what is this 'Particulars of Claim' document I've seen posted in the forum, how does it relate to the process I'm involved with, can I still use it and if so, how?

 

sorry if that's a lot to ask of you guys, but I'm three or so weeks from the court date and starting to get angsty.

 

D.

[digitalantichrist]

So. Here's an update. The return date is on Friday 3rd August, with the hearing set for the 10th. However, today I received a letter from the Clydesdale which states that the bank will be applying for an order to sist my claim until the resolution of the OFT case. I guess I'm both OK with this, and also a tad miffed that i didn't haul my finger out of my ass and get them to court much sooner.

 

However, in the letter the bank outline their position with regard to my case:

 

a) the charges levied on your account are in concordance with the terms and conditions of the account which you accepted when you opened the account;

 

b) the charges have been levied as a result of your failure to adhere to the limits in place on your account and are, therefore, for the service provided by the bank in extending facilities to you; and

 

c) the charges levied are a genuine pre-estimate of the cost incurred by the bank given the time and resources that are required to deal with such actions by customers.

 

 

What I am wondering, with regard to point B, is how they can justify that statement. There were no extension of facilities. For example, Scottish Gas attempt to DD my account of 25 quid, there's no money in the account on that day, so the DD bounces and the gas bill goes unpaid, however I'm charged 30 quid as a penalty. My account is now 30 quid in debt. A few days later the same thing happens and continues to happen until I have money enough in my account, by which time I've racked up 90 quid worth of penalties. So, where is the extension of facilities the bank are suggesting exists?

[MARTIN3030]

Darren about time you had a thread in the Clydesdale bank.

Have moved here for you.

You can object to their application to have the hearing stayed.

Have a look in the bank temps library for advice on this.

As regards the lates approach to Clydesdale claims and any recent updated advice have a read in the Clydesdale forums.

[digitalantichrist]

So. Today was the return day and I called the court today to find out if the Clydesdale are putting in a defence. They are. This means I have to go to court for a hearing on Friday the 10th August. I believe that this is the preliminary hearing.

 

So, today I bought two reams of paper and a new ink spool for my printer and will be printing up the court bundle amended to fit my case. What I want to know is will this have to be presented to the court before the preliminary hearing, or is it ok to just turn up with the copies of it and hand them to the parties involved? Also, is there anything else that I need to get filled out and returned before the preliminary hearing?

 

I have a strange mix of trepidation and excitement. lol

[caro]

I'm going try and find you someone with more knowledge of the Scottish system than me, but you must fight the application for a stay as Martin3030 has said.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html#post131900

[digitalantichrist]

hi, thanks for the advice, and for taking an interest!

[Bigmac versus]

Hi digitlantichrist thats some name that,lol.

The court bundle need not be handed in before your hearing, supplying a copy to their sol. at the time of hearing is fine.

[Bigmac versus]

Prelim hearing will be to see if both parties wish to proceed and that there are no objections etc, the sherif will then decide if it can proceed to hearing and decide what time allocated etc.

[Bigmac versus]

Assuming your an Aberdeeen supporter not a good day for you today eh.

[digitalantichrist]

heh, yeah. the name gets some amusing reactions at times

Thanks for the info about the prelim hearing, I'm still hoping that the bank wont show up, but from what I've been reading here it seems that the Clydesdale will put in an appearance. I was speaking to a frien last night whose parents and sister had managed to get a refund from the Royal Bank of Scotland without going to court, which is great.

 

As for fitba, I'm a dirty hun, I'm afraid, but my wee brother is a sheep, heh

[digitalantichrist]

Update!

Two really nice man arrived en my doorstep this morning with a citation from the Clydesdale bank. They've served me with an incidental application to sist my action against the bank. Amusingly, these guys were also of the opinion that whatever the outcome of the case in England, it could not be used as a legal precedent in Scotland

Obviously I didnt sign their application. I guess this means that we will all be going to court!

[Bigmac versus]

It cant be used in Scotland but the OFT have cross border interest here so suppose its up to the sheriff.

[digitalantichrist]

OK.

 

So, I'm going to print up the court bundle tomorrow, after I get a final (ha!) bit of advice/info.

 

I've come to the section where I have to put in the Latest Schedule of Charges and the tally including interest is £854.

 

I know that the limit for a small claim is £750, so do I just list the penalties (plus interest) up until the date it hits the £750 mark, or do I list the full amount? I don't want to fall foul of any rules at this stage!

[digitalantichrist]

The above questions still remain.

 

Also, the postie arrived with not one, but two further copies of the incidental application to sist from the bank. They are rather persistent!

[caro]

I'm not a Scot, so can only give my opinion. You should use your original schedule of charges, which I assume was below the £750 limit, but it should be acceptable to add on the interest to date.

 

I can't help you on the sist issue, but you seem ok with that.

 

If you need further clarification, check it out with the court office.

[digitalantichrist]

Excellent advice, thanks muchly, Caro!

 

I have to say, that my experiences here with all the responses, help and advice I've received, and seen others also get, has been top notch and greatly appreciated. You guys do a great job! I'm just hoping that I can do the same tomorrow!!!

[caro]

Thanks from all of us. I can't take any credit cos anything I've learnt has been from CAG too. Just try to spread the word a bit.

[digitalantichrist]

Well, that was fun

 

The court decided to sist the case. A guy had been up just a few minutes before me with a similar case against the NatWest and the same solicitor represented both banks. In both cases sists were granted. Later, when I was leaving the court, another solicitor who had been sitting in on the hearing told me that I had put up a good argument and it showed that I'd done my homework, heh. I'm surprisingly upbeat about it all. So, to everyone who has posted material here and helped me along the way, I give my very deepest thanks.

 

Prior to the session the court officials were gossiping with the solicitors and one official happily berated the bank's solicitor for 'sticking it to the little man', so there is support for us out there, even if the judgements go against us for now.

 

Keep on fighting!