Surfer01 vs Nationwide- ***Hardship application***

[MilkTrayMan]

Because, contrary to popular belief, I dont really drink much lol

So the rumours ARE true, that U spill most of it then??...lmao...

[Surfer01]

Last year I commenced proceedings against Nationwide to claim back charges just prior to it all being put on hold. Three months later when my overdraft was due to renewal without any warning or notification our over draft facility was cancelled overnight resulting in 2 DDs bouncing. On contacting Nationwide I was told that I needed to start reducing my £2000 overdraft. In the past year I may have only accrued 2 -3 charges for exceeding my limit by a few pounds probably less than £10 on each occasion.

I agreed to start reducing it, initally for the first 6 months at £30 per month and then increasing it to £100 per month. I was sent a letter confirming this which also stated that if I exceeded the limit the overdraft agreement payment plan could be cancelled.

No problem until last week. I was below my overdrtaft limit on 29/01/08 but then on 30/01/08 Nationwide added an interest charge from the previous month which then caused me to exceed my overdraft limit by £5-49. On the 31/01/08 my salary, bonus etc got paid into the account in excess of £1650. I drew £300 cash and used my card twice on 31/01/08

no problem. On the 01/02/08 my wifes wages also got paid into the account.

On 01/02/08 I went to draw £300 as there should have been at least £1500 available. I could not get any money from the ATM cashpoint and contacted Nationwide to be told that my overdraft had been cancelled as I had gone over the limit by £5-49 and Nationwide required immediate payment of £715 to clear the account. I advise that I did not have that type of money available and as I did not have any funds available basically I was desititute.

Eventually after a lot of grovelling Nationwide agreed to reinstate the overdraft but in the meantime they had bounced all my DDs and Standing orders due on the 01/02/08. There were 11 of these making it £330 in charges. As I had also used my card on the 31/01/08 when I thought I had funds another 2 charges, £60, were added totalling altogether £390. Also another £30 for exceeding my overdraft in the the first place.

So here I have £420 in charges for exceeding my overdraft by £5-49! These charges will be due on my account at the end of March and is basically our rental for the month. This is all due to a slight oversight by myself and not doing my Maths correctly. I think that if Nationwide had cancelled the overdraft on the 31/01/08 the day after I exceeded my limit I would have been able to cancell all the DDs and SOs that were due on the 01/02/08 before the 01/02/08 or maybe I would have had a chance to make alternative arrangements, but just to cancel the ovedraft immediately without notification and warning strikes me as odd and is extrememly worrying for us as basically we have no credit issues and all our payments are totally up to date with no arrears. It is over a third of my normal take home salary and almost as much as my wife earns in two weeks. If we don't pay it obviously more charges accummalate and a vicious circle begins.

I tried to reason with the lady on the phone regarding the charges and she was having none of it saying tough, we exceeded the overdraft limit and we now have to pay the price. We are very worried about this whole escapade due to my overlooking the fact that the interrest charge by Nationwide for December would be due on the 30/02/08 and it is giving is sleepless nights as we do not want our credit rating wrecked or go into arrears on any accounts. Can any one please advise? Thanks.

[tomterm8]

Did they cancel the overdraft without notice?

[Surfer01]

Yes on both occasions. The letter I had from Nationwide after I had agreed to the overdraft reduction over the telephone basically states the following;

 

Current limit is £2000 and we will reduce it by £30 every month until it reaches zero. You will need to credit enough money to cover any interest and charges that are due.

 

It's important that you keep to the arrangemnt as the limit will be automatically withdrawn if you:

 

1) Don't credit enough money for the monthly reduction

2) Exceed the agreed limit (their interest put me £5.49 over limit)

3) Don't credit enough money to cover interest and charges

 

If you don't keep to the arrangement the following MAY happen;

a) You will need to pay the full balance immediately

b) We'll request the return of your cheque book and /or debit card

c) You'll only be able to make withdrawals at the branch

d) Direct debits and standing Orders may be cancelled

e) We might stop any bill payments

 

It is almost as if they wanted me to accummalate all those charges knowing full well that there is no ways we will be able to pay the charges unless I never paid some of my creditors. My salary pays all the bills and my wife's pays for our food and petrol during the month. We were just starting to come right and get our bills under control when this happens. There was no other notification, just a straight cancellation of the overdraft facility on the 0/02/08..

[tomterm8]

I, personally, would consider doing the following:

 

1. Open a basic bank account somewhere else,

2. Transfering your wage payments / DD & SO's to that bank account

3. Withdrawing any money you have in the account and,

4. Starting your claim for the new charges, immediatly.

 

if you have other accounts with the bank, i would consider making sure they don't have any money they could do a right of set off with.

 

the reason I suggest this is that, frankly, if they do debit these charges you will NOT be able to fund basic living expenses. I would then contact the bank, and make a repayment proposal to cover your overdraft, in line with the normal deal (i.e. a proportion of any disposable income) etc.

 

National debt line might help, if you give them a call.

[Surfer01]

Thanks for the advice above. We have managed to open an account with Alliance & Leicester.

Do you think it is worth writing a polite letter to Nationwide asking if they will reconsider imposing all those charges as we may not be in a position to pay my rent if they all go through and if they reject the request contacting the banking Ombudsman reagrding "sharp" practice by the bank. If they do go through will we be a hardship case justifying claiming charges.

As I am not asking for a refund of charges but rather cancellation of charges maybe they will consider it due to the way the charges were imposed and the fact that it will cause us genuine hardship..

Any ideas or suggestions regarding the above would be truly appreciated as we don't want any CCJs or rent arrears at the end of February / March.

[tomterm8]

yeah, it's worth writing to your bank, as a hardship case.

 

If they were to take you to court, anyway, it is likely the case would not be heared until the entire charge argument is decided on by the high court...

[Surfer01]

Our main concern now is that although we will be able to pay some of the charges we will not be able to pay all of them resulting in us exceeding the overdraft limit and the overdraft being cancelled and then they can demand repayment of the balance immediately even though we are consistently making payments towards reducing the balance. A sort of catch 22!

If we raised a demand for back payment of charges including the current charges and it was accepted by the courts but put on hold would this effectively prevent Nationwide from pursuing us through the courts for the balance of the overdraft as this would consist mainly of charges. I have already lodged a claim through the FOS in June last year for a lower amount but this was put on hold. Could this action be regarded as in dispute? We are going grfey over these charges as we have never had so many in one go. Generally it has been the odd charge every few months but nothing on a regular basis. Thanks.

[tomterm8]

If you have raised a dispute via FOS, I think it would be an unfair practice to then terminate the account, which could be raised with both OFT, FOS and FSA as appropriate.

[MilkTrayMan]

Am sorry to remind U Surfer01, but U were given perfectly sound advice previously, way back in Oct '07, if NOT before then, of what can of worms could be opened by Nationwide!...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/118064-nationwide-hardship.html

 

Why U haven't acted to set up a 'parachute' current account elsewhere since then, only U can say??...

...Don't know why I type so much sometimes?...

 

Oh yeah...I know...to increase my typing speed!...

[Surfer01]

I did open a parachute account at the time but Nationwide refused to transfer all the DDs etc into the new account as the new account was in my name only. Considering that all the DDS`had been set up with only my signature I found this rather strange. I had to close the parachute account, wait 3 months before I could open another one in both our names. This one is now operational but there is obviously the concern of the £360 fees for the slight transgression. Also road tax due at the end of the month so it is a bit of a catch 22. Pay the one and not the other and still end up in the you know what1

[Surfer01]

Go to Nationwide Talkback It is to be held today between 6:30 and 7:30 pm. Ask a question about high charges etc.

[indebtstudent]

Hi there

 

I have some info which may be relevent here.

 

One of the situations in which Nationwide will refund charges is if you haven't been notified of the reduction in your overdraft. I wasn't sure from your post whether you incurred any charges in this period, but hey every little helps.

 

With regard to the overdraft the information given is correct, any bank or building society does not have to offer an overdraft. I agree it does seem more than a coincidence that your Od was reduced when you began your claim but unfortunately I can think of a couple of responses they could make.

 

First as someone has already said they could point out the decrease in funds going into the account. I know this is one factor in the decision making for overdrafts.

 

Secondly even if you had never exceeded the limit Nationwide could argue that, due to recent events, they have had to make adjustments to thier practices. I have heard nothing official to say this is the case but I certainly get the impression that there has been a tightening of all lending criteria.

 

In terms of what you can do now you mentioned a account with Alliance & Leicester. Which is you main current account? Would A & L offer an overdraft which may tide you over?

 

Generally speaking banks want you to use thier current account as your main one so this could mean A & L won't offer a decent sized Od. However it may be worth a shot as you said you still have your direct debits coming out of that account.

 

Another alternative is to open a brand new account somewhere else and see what Od they will offer. You may need to promise to swap all your banking to get the best deal so do a lot research.

 

Beyond that there is little else I can add.

 

In essence the argument to make to Nationwide is I have not exceeded the Od limit but it is likely that I will if you reduce it. They still have to look at hardship cases, the trouble is you are not in hardship yet, but you will be if the sitatation is not resolved.

 

The biggest barriers is going to be the fact that any overdraft is repayable in demand (even though IMO the economy would collapse if the banks actually demanded repayment of these debts).

[Sirensinger]

Hi, just adding my twopenn'orth ... I too had a Flex Account, with an overdraft of about £450, when I began to have financial difficulties I was hovering around the upper limit, with the result that their charges kept sending it over, whereupon I'd get more charges etc.... The charges I'd received in total were as much or a little more than I owed on the overdraft.

 

I wasn't using the account by that point, just trying desperately to pay enough in to keep pace with the charges. Eventually I spoke to someone about it on the phone and managed to get her to agree to knock of the charges if I agreed to pay the rest off. However, when I said I'd be doing it in instalments, she said they wouldn't knock them off after all...

 

I then received a letter saying that Nationwide was reducing my overdraft to £250. I therefore now had no hope of paying any of the money back, and Nationwide then started to charge me the increased rate of interest and to write threatening letters saying I'd exceeded my limit! How surprising.....!

 

Well, the account was closed, it went to the DCAs, I disputed the charges, but didn't pursue my claim then as they were being stayed. Nationwide chased for a while, then stopped - now, a year after, they've suddenly started again, so I'm about to file the claim. Like some others here, I've also been thinking Nationwide were really taking advantage when they reduced the overdraft knowing I was trying my very best to pay them and had already explained my financial difficulties, and I'm sure it must convene something! The OFT Guidelines say they are supposed to act FAIRLY, so do the Civil Procedure Rules, or is that just Court cases? I'm sure they are not supposed to make everything even more difficult for someone experiencing financial hardship, even though we know they do!

 

I was going to mention this in my Claim, cos some of the charges are there because of this reduction in overdraft facility - but your comments have made me wonder. It seems really relevant to me, but is the Judge just going to say well, they had the right to call in the overdraft, so they had the right to add charges to it??..........

 

Sirensinger

 

PS sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread if I have

[indebtstudent]

An overdraft is repayable on demand BUT they are supposed to be positve and proactive etc when people are in financial difficulty.. I fail to see how continuing to charge does this.

[Surfer01]

Last year I submitted claim to nationwide for bank charges to the value of about £1100. When rejected I pursued it through the FOS but then everything went onto hold. As I am now unemployed due to the comapny I worked for going bust, do you think I can get this claim for a refund moving again by pleading hardship?

Besides the rent, council tax, utilities etc, we have other debts that need to be serviced. None are in arears at present. The only cocnern is that I will be requesting statutory redundancy pay from NI contributons but I am hoping this will not affect my claim.

[MARTIN3030]

Surfer you have nothing to lose by trying.

Read up on the criteria.Then fill in the income and expenditure form and send with the letter requesting consideration.You can add in the letter that your circumstances have changed.If you need any further help to get it going feel free to ask.

 

I saw that you had lots of Nationwide threads so have merged them into one for ease of others seeking to know your progress.

Edited November 6, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[WOOD73]

I have just written to nationwide asking them to look at my claim on hardship grounds, they replied saying I did not qualify as hardship as my income is sufficient to cover my outgoings.

How they know this is a mystery as I never supplied them with financial information, but told them I would on request if they needed it.

I have stopped using my flex account because I could not afford the charges month after month when I became unemployed earlier this year.

I have now written to the FOS asking them to look into this.

[indebtstudent]

Is there any value in trying to get local press involved? Your case seems as good as any to demonstrate that the charges in now way simply cover thier costs, particularly in light of the O/d being removed then reinstated. This simple action generated a lot of charges.

[Surfer01]

We have an A & L which now has all the DDs and SOs on it however I will need to start cancelling them as no income and no redundancy pay. There are none on the Flexaccountfor obvious reasons so no charges have been accrued on either account since they nailed me in February! As my redundancy pay is coming from the government NI fund, I have absolutely no idea how long it will take the to pay me out. It could be weeks or even months.

I am paying off the NW at £50 per month and the o/d is now down to £1550 which is now about the amount they owe me in charges! My concern here is that we cannot afford to pay the £50 any longer due to my redundancy never mind council tax, rent and other debts that need to be serviced. Unfortunately it seems that we do not qualify for housing and council tax benefits as my spouse works. Apparently we are a few pounds over the limit as they do not take into account that my wife pays a pension. It is the council tax one that we are really worried about as there is no ways we can pay it by the end of the month. Other debtors we can perhaps get around with the help of CAB.

[Surfer01]

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