Housing benefit query

[marlow]

I don't know if this site is appropriate for this kind of thing, but wonder if anyone knows of any sites that can offer free info as quality as this site does on other issues? Any help gratefully received.

[installspark]

You might find this document to be useful although there is a lot in it.

[marlow]

My council are trying to get £880 out of me stating that they overpaid me housing benefit. This benefit ran from May 2005 to August 2005. Now, bearing in mind communicating with these idiots is PURE HELL, their first reason was saying I'd phoned them in September to say I'd actually gone back to work in May!! This resulted in me having to attend a fraud administration hearing type thing, where the fraud guys came to a solid conclusion that the whole system was balls, I never made any such call etc.. The job centre ahve gone on to say they have the recorded phone call so I've said according to data protection, I am entitled to hear it...I think I'm right about that aren't I?? Why on earth would I phone and say that when I have given them proof time after time from the Jobcentre that I was receiving JSA all along??? So their next weak attempt at reasoning why I was overpaid was because my job seekers was contributions based and not income based. So then I said well this is an error on their part, you see on the application form for housing benefit, you don't state what type of job seekers you are getting, which is rather stupid if there is such a big difference between the two!! Of course you have to provide evidence of the job seekers with the application which obviously I did otherwise I wouldn't have been paid housing benefit thereafter, so bascially any errors have been totally on their part. I've sent lots of letters telling them to provide me with proof that I owe this money back, and they keep going round in circles, first saying I phoned them to say I was working..."LIKE DUH!! WE'VE BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD!!", then again saying about the income based/contributions based stuff. Now their on about taking me to court. Is it worth my while creating a case collecting all the info I need? The main thing would be getting yet more confirmation from Jobcentre that I was in receipt of this benefit, which isn't easy to get from them. Could I send them a letter saying they have to provide this info according to Data Protection? The problem also is that apparently job centre wipe all their records 18 months after claims, which leaves me about 2 or 3 months left before this would happen to my records. Have I got a case here please anyone?

[ukdickie31]

You will be able to get confirmation. The Jobcentre records are just local records on a different computer system (called LMS) to the Benefit Records. The benefit system is called JSAPs. This keeps all data for quite a long time.

 

You will be able to get this letter quite easily, whether by Data Protection Printout or by just going along and asking.

 

I really can't see how they can say this is a problem. They should have access to the JSAP's database which will confirm whether you were paid JSA(Conts) or JSA(Income Based).

 

If they still don't give you the info. PM me.

[Guest S J]

You should have appealed against the decision. It seems that you have let them lead you on which has taken you over your one month time limit in which to appeal. You can still appeal late provided that you are within 1 year of the original decision letter.

 

Also, if the decision letter does not comply with the regulations then they are taken not to have issued a written decision and must do so before they recover the overpayment. If this is the case then your time limit for appealing startes from the date of the decision letter.

 

You need to seek advice from someone who can look at the documents.

[marlow]

Very helpful ukdickie, thanks.

 

About the appealing part, I'll elaborate on what else happened. I was called for a fraud adiministration meeting in the first place because they thought I had failed to tell them of a change in my circumstances. Jobseekers had informed them that my benefit had stopped in May or June. Well the reason jobseekers had informed council this was simply because there was a one week break in my benefit, for what reason I can't remember now, but it was a cock up of some sort, so because I was back on benefit a week later, I'm hardly going to know to tell the coucnil about this. So fraud guys said I'd get a caution if I was unlucky, as it happened just had a letter saying don't do it again, naughty boy! The fraud guy told me to then make a back dated claim as I was entitled to the benefit of which I'd already had (getting chuffin confusing now, lol). So I did, and the back dated claim was accepted, only for them to reply saying I'm entitled to £0.00 of benefit!!!

 

I have been appealing all along ever since and have sent many a letter written similarly to how template letters are written on this forum, for example the bit about me being entitled to hear this so called recorded conversation that I never had!! Hmmm, funny that they've ignored this!

 

Right well I'd better collect the paper work I'll be needing in court then, if you think they haven't got a right to take my money.

[marlow]

Despite me sending them letters asking them to provide evidence that I owe this money, I have now had a notification of legal action to pay up. Are they obliged by law to show me the evidence or can they just keep it to themsleves for court time? Because if there is some very unlikely looohole that I've missed which they don't tellme about then I'll lose at court. Can anybody help?

[Jhawc24]

Information about the data protection act is here. As you have already made a request for this information they have to provide it to you with 40 days.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/dwp/2006/cat1/DPAA5JP%20-DataProtectionAct1998.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

[marlow]

I sent a letter saying I have the right to hear this so called recorded telephone conversation quoting Data Protection, but didn't mention DPA again. However I am going to reply saying I can't wait for them to take me to court as I will turn up to make sure it is thrown out after you have failed to bide by law and show me the information which shows I owe this money, in accordance with the DPA. Hope it works.

[marlow]

I've been told of the website entitledto.com to calculate what you're entitled to regarding tax credits and more importantly in my situation housing benefit. I am basically lodging in a private house. The house owner also lives here with her 2 kids, and her sister has a room too. It's a privately rented place in her name only, no joint tenancy. Now entering all the details into the site AND into plenty of other benefit calculator sites too, it says she will get a good chunk of housing benefit, taking into account EVERYTHING, the hours she works, her tax credit allowance, declaring everyone who lives there and how much rent they pay. AND YET...she had a meeting with a councellor today who has pretty much told her she'll get bugger all!!! This now states that all these calculator websites are completely wrong and lying!! No claim has yet been processed so nothing has come back to say precisely what she's entitled to so I'm thinking this council woman has got a few rules wrong in her quick judgment, saying things like even though I'm there paying no rent, I don't get job seekers and I don't even work (yet), this still brings her benefit down yet the calculators say it puts her benefit up?!?! Any help please?

[davethorp]

The entitled to website is a rough estimate. HB calculations are tricky at best and seem to use some complex mathematical formulae that Pythagoras himself couldn't solve.

 

The simple answer is to sod what she was told and just apply anyway and see what happens

[marlow]

Ok thanks. I can only hope the process they use is a computer software one similar to that of the calculator sites themselves.

[Joa]

marlow; would you be able to keep us posted on the developments? I have used entitledto since its begining and whilst it is not 100% accurate, it's never that far from the reality if the details are entered correctly.

As davethorp says; apply anyway. The rule of thums should be: if unsure, always apply.

[marlow]

I understand that the sites can't be 100% accurate but we were told that with me being there she would hardly get anything compared to the site saying she'll get hundreds, so I think she's talking complete ****e. ...as they all do! Sure I'll post how things go. The house owner is currently in the process of getting together the 101 million things that the council require to process the claim. Some of it's a total joke man. I was claiming for stuff like this 10 years ago and it was pip squeek done in days...not anymore!

[marlow]

Hi all. Have had to drag this back up again. As you can see it's 3 years old!

 

Leaving where I left off, nothing at all came of this, they didn't take me to court or anything. Altho I moved around alot thereafter they always knew of my whereabouts cos I told them so!! So in the past few months I've had to start claiming for housing benefit again. Been claiming for a good few months now. Today I get a letter saying I still owe them £700 from that time and it will be getting deducted from my current claim!!! They didn't provide proof as to any overpayments back then and they think they can just TAKE money that I don't owe now!! What can I do about this???? Surely being so old their claim against me must be null and void!!! Do I have to take them to court? I can't get legal aid can I? How can I stop them making deductions? I'm absolutely livid!!!

[marlow]

Anyone?

[Kentish Lass]

Hi Marlow. I have been reading through your postings and picking out the salient points.

 

You need someone in authority to be looking into this for you. The best way for this to happen is for you to write to your MP. This letter should be short, factual, to the point. No ramblings, no slagging off the benefit people etc. etc.

 

I am going to try to put something together for you. If you have any paperwork or evidence to back up anything you say, dig it out. A few dates (e.g. date of fraud administration hearing).would be helpful.

 

My expertise is not related to dealing with data disclosure, but I believe one of the previous posters gave you a link regarding how to do this - else I think it is on the CAG site somewhere. As things stand, I believe you are entitled to know EXACTLY how the council came to their decision.

[Kentish Lass]

Have sent you a PM

[marlow]

Hey, have answered the pm.

 

Ya know, I kept everything for years, letters, receipts of letters to prove I'd sent them. Everytime it came to a paperwork clear out I said to myself "nope, keep this stuff, no matter HOW LONG it goes hearing nothing more about it, KEEP THIS STUFF!" So the last clearout I had it had been 3 yrs, thought that would be it, and I think I chucked it all! Unbelievable, just my luck!