I need your help! Do you have any old T&Cs?

[stax68]

Hello all. Well as I stated in an earlier post, I wasn't holding my breath, and sure enough, HSBC didn't deliver. Here's a scan of the letter I got in return.

...

Sorry they weren't more useful! Feel free to pester the phone number at the bottom of it and see if you can get better results though!

 

r-t-v

 

RTV - may I suggest you write to HSBC head office and ask them to supply the T&Cs, referring to the reply you have had from the call centre manager, and asking whether they would like to comment on the claim that it is impossible to supply them.

If they refuse a second time - and at the top level - then the story might be of interest to the media. Even if they don't get back to you, they would look pretty bad with one refusal already on record...

stax

[Audreygreeneyes]

Hi Rob,

 

Funny that I got exactly the same letter telling me that the T & C for 1995 are no longer ava and here is the most uptodate!!!!!

 

suppose Have no option but to include them in my court bundle as they are the only ones I have:!:

[Audreygreeneyes]

CM would the freedom of information act cover? dont know enough about it to be sure............

[Celicaman]

CM would the freedom of information act cover? dont know enough about it to be sure............

 

To be honest i dont know anything about that, but surely somewhere there has to be records of all the T & C's. Dont expect help from the banks.

 

CM

[mellymum]

Does anyone know when the collected T&Cs will be made available, I have to submit my witness statement and supporting evidence (so Im just sending the whole court bundle) in for the 11th June. I opened my account in April 2002. Unfortunately Ive moved 3 times and lost track of old paper work so Im having to rely on you guys that someone else out there has a copy!

[welshbaba]

Has anyone come across t/c's for 1989? Rang bank like others have done andtold the same (not keeping them). Have requested copy of my "contract" i signed when I opened account - just in case anything stated on that.

Thank

Sha

[freakyleaky]

I have been told these t &c's are from 94 Personal banking terms and conditions (PDF, 143kb) thats the best I can find so far.

[stax68]

I have been told these t &c's are from 94

 

As the ragged sheepshank said - I'm afraid not!

 

Those are the new ones from December 2006 - containing the new story about informal overdraft requests and, er, 'overdraft review fees'.

 

Hi Rob,

 

Funny that I got exactly the same letter telling me that the T & C for 1995 are no longer ava and here is the most uptodate!!!!!

 

suppose Have no option but to include them in my court bundle as they are the only ones I have:!:

 

NO! you must get some older ones - even if not from the time you opened your account!

 

Here's what is available so far, pending the CAG admins getting some up on the forum. They are all relevant and you may as well include them all:

 

1997 (extract sent by DG on behalf of HSBC):

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/55086-stax68-hsbc.html#post846275

 

2004,2005:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/90721-i-need-your-help.html#post840881

 

cheers, stax

[Cash_back]

I'm digging around in the attic to see if I've kept my old T&C from 1995.

A quick question: If the T & C are amended during the life of an account, are these changes also applicable to the operation of the account. For example do the T & C say somewhere that they are "subject to change without notice". In which case would one need to include every revision in any legal documentation supporting a claim?

Nick D Mymoney

[stax68]

I've been trying to get an answer to this, but in the meantime everything points towards the fact that all the T&Cs are relevant.

 

First, the agreements are open-ended and either side can terminate on giving the appropriate notice - so it's not obviously totally unjust to vary the T&Cs.

 

Second, the T&Cs I have say that HSBC may vary the T&Cs with 30 day's notice, and you may terminate without any extra charges or interest within 60 days of being informed of disadvantageous changes. There might be some reason why this is invalid or inapplicable, but I haven't found one.

 

Third, this interesting thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/27632-phoenix-hsbc.html#post325256 has an account of a district judge's opinion on the matter.

 

So in general, I think it's fairly clear that - as you would expect - changes to the T&Cs do have effect during the relevant period.

 

There might be a kind of 'exception' to this, if the Unfair Terms in Consumer contracts Regulations (UTCCRs) apply only to the T&Cs in operation at the start of the contract. But they apply to terms, rather than only to whole contracts (the clue's in the name!), so I'd have thought that they apply to any new or amended terms introduced after mid-1995, when the first lot of UTCCRs took effect.

 

There's then also the question of whether the first introduction of a new set of T&Cs after mid-95 could mean that the UTCCRs would start to apply to all terms in the new T&Cs, including those that are unchanged - perhaps because the revised terms mean that technically speaking, a new contract is entered into? I have no good information on this, but I suspect the answer is the regs would apply only to new or amended terms.

 

Perhaps a suitably well-informed mod could help us out?

[freakyleaky]

Right then, am I right in thinking that the t&c's I have printed out are not good enough for the bundle? Should I remove them and add others or leave them in and add others? Please tell me very quickly as I am sending them tomorrow!

[freakyleaky]

Is anyone speaking to me tonight????

[freakyleaky]

I'll sulk in a minute!

[Catlover64]

Is anyone speaking to me tonight????

 

Hi Freaky

 

I wouldn't worry chuck - No-one's speaking to me either!

[Turboman]

Hi

Does above posts mean that we T/C's for every period in the 6 yr span--my Barclaycard was from 1999 but 1999 T/C's didn't charge then-not till mid 2001-does that mean charges are unlawful!!

 

Chelsea

[Catlover64]

Has anyone managed to find T &C's for 2000 as yet?

 

Thanks!

[Michael Browne]

See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html

[Catlover64]

See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html

 

A BIG thank you Michael as always

[alanalana]

Hi all,

 

I have another link for you I have not checked all the previous posts to see if you already have as it seemed urgentish hope it helps.

 

http://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/PA_1_5_S5/content/uk/pdfs/en/personalbankingterms_conditions.pdf;jsessionid=0000Vubrqb_8pvQNOpzopP1u1Xs:11j5bfvdu

[jojo1974]

I dont Know if it is any use but i have a letter of terms and conditions from an overdraft that we took out in 1996 when it was midland

 

Terms and conditions for overdraft 27 November 1996

1 Your facility, like all overdraft facilities, is an on-demand form of borrowing. This means that we have the right, at any time ,even befor the review date , to withdraw your facility and/or write to you demanding immediate repayment of the overdrawn balance of your account,together with accrued interest,fees and any charges

 

2 Because your facility is a variable rate overdraft, we may,at our discretion, change any of our interest rates by notice in the national press and our branches or by writing to you. The changes will apply from the date given in the notice.

 

3 You may cancel your overdraft facility at any time by repaying the overdrawn balance of your account together with accrued interest and any charges, and writing to us telling us you wish to cancel. There is no fee for cancelling the facility

 

4 If we renew your facility in future, a renewal fee may be payable. we will tell you the amount of this fee, if any,before we deduct it from your account.

 

5 Interest will be calculated daily on the cleared balance of your account. Interest and fees will be deducted from your account 14 days after your monthly charges calculation date which we will set or agree with you. A statement of the interest and fees if any to be deducted will be sent to you on your monthly charges calculation date

 

6 In this letter, to calculate whether any fees are payable, 'month' means the period between one monthly charges calculation date and the next.

 

7 If your overdraft limit is exceeded, interest will be charged at Midland's standard debit interest rate which is currently 24.6% a year on any amount over your limit. An extra fee of £10 will also be charged for any month when the balance of your account exceeds your limit, whether for one day or more.

 

8 We reserve the right to return unpaid, or refuse authorisation of, any items which would cause the balance of your account to exceed the agreed limit.

 

9If we ever have to call for repayment, interest will contine to be charged at the rates set out in this letter on the amount you owe us, including any other sums deducted from your account, until you have repaid us in full. Interest, fees and charges will continueto be deducted from your account 14 days after your monthly charges calculation date. we may also change this date

 

10 Our personal customer terms and conditions also appy to your orchard account. If you do not have a copy. please ask us for one

 

11 We may change the charges, the terms of this letter, these terms and conditions and our personal customer terms and conditions by giving at least one calender month's notice in our branches, in the national press or by writing to you. the changes will apply from the date given in the notice.

[Celicaman]

Well done JoJo, im sure we can use that somewhere.

Point 7.

Interesting, 24.6%, now what would that look like in a compound spreadsheet.

also note that it says nothing for what the £10 is for, its just an ' extra fee' or unjustified penalty, at least now they try to disguise it as a service

 

Keep looking, you just never know what else you may find

 

CM

[Celicaman]

JoJo, do the same as you probably have done previous & send to a mod, or there is a email address somewhere to send to but i cant find the link.

 

Cm

[jojo1974]

JoJo, do the same as you probably have done previous & send to a mod, or there is a email address somewhere to send to but i cant find the link.

 

Cm

sorry dont understand what you mean???

[Celicaman]

sorry dont understand what you mean???

 

Hi JOJO, did i read on one of the earlier posts that you had found account T & C's and this was a second lot. ( It might be me confsing things lol, too many late nights. ) What i meant was if you had found a second lot to send them same place as first ones.

 

CM

[jojo1974]

Ah right yes i also have T & C from current account from 1996 but have seen that they are already on here