Angry Cat V Morgan Stanley **WON AT LONG BL**DY LAST!!!**

[angry cat]

Hi Andrew1-

Well, what a cheek to offer you £150 on an £800 Claim!!

and No, I have not yet received my refund.

 

I am still battling with MS.

 

At first, they offered me £446.50 but wouldn't refund my £50 County Court issue fee. Together with the fact that due to MS imposing so many conditions in their offer of settlement, the offer was not acceptable nor fair.

They then replied stating that they would increase the offer to £496.50 to include the County Court Issue fee, but that they still insisted on the confidentiality clause that was set out in the settlement offer.

Factually I hadn't heard a word from them since I sent my last letter, which basically stated that I could not accept their offer, because of their imposed confidentiality clause. My letter dated 27 July 2006 to MS Law department stated "Thank you for your letter dated 19 July 2006.

I will inform the County Court that I am withdrawing my Claim once and not before the funds for my Claim have been cleared.

I do not accept a clause of condfidentiality to be placed on MY Claim against Morgan Stanley. If you are prepared to proceed to court because of the confidentiality issue, so be it. I fell that a judge will take a dim view of the defendant trying to impose a condition on the claimant in what is a reasonably simple monetary claim, but it has to be your choice.

On the other hand, this claim could be settled very quickly if you would just send me full payment, as you have already indicated that you rae prepared to do" There has been no response from MS for over three weeks, that is until Monday 19 August when a letter suddenly arrived from Morgan Stanley Law Dept 25 Cabot Sq "Dear AC, Further to your letter of 27 July, we are prepared to offer you £446.50 in full and final settlement of the Claim. This offer is made without prejudice except as to costs.

Morgan Stanley is prepared to make an offer of settlement of £446.50 in respect of the Claim on the following terms:

1 The offer is made without admission of liability on the part of Morgan Stanley

2 Morgan Stanley will make a payment (by cheque) of £446.50 for the Claim being withdrawn.

3 You will write to XXXCounty Court within two days of accepting this offer, informing them that you would like to withdraw the Claim. A copy of the letter snr to the County Court will be provided to Morgan Stanley Law Devision

4 This offer is open for acceptance until 28 August 2006

Please indicate your consent to the above by signing and returning the enclosed copy of this letter by 28 August 2006"

Attached to the MS letter is an almost blank piece of MS paper:-

"Morgan Stanley

I consent and agree to the settlement of the Claim in the above terms

..........................................Sign here

Ms Angry Cat"

 

Amazing there is nothing written on this MS paper, except the I consent bit and dots to show me were I should sign, plus my name beneath. There is no date, no address, basically I would be signing an almost blank piece of paper with nothing above--Duh Doh. do I really appear to be so dumb?.

 

Okay now here is the interesting part, firstly MS offer £446.50, but the next offer increases to £496.50. However the settlement must remain confidential. As you know I then reject both offers because I will not agree to the confidentiality issue and then MS put me back to square one again, by taking out the confidentiality clause, but reducing the offer by £50!!!!!taking it back to the original offer of £446.50.

They are driving me mad and this has all been going on since the end of May when I issued my claim.

GRRRRRRrrrrr

Angry Cat

[Bookworm]

I'd say keep on ignoring them then. Sooner or later, they'll realise they can pay up or defend... Any news of a court date yet?

[angry cat]

Hi Bookworm!

 

Just to update you- No, I do not have a Court date yet....

"Sneaky Tricks" by MS (this is only my opinion)....

On the very same day that I received the latest offer of settlement from MS, which excluded my County Court Issue Fee of £50.00 (which they had already agreed to)....I received a....

General Form of Judgement or Order from the C. Court, which stated...`

"The action be stayed until further order on the basis that there is likely to be a test case to be heard before the end of the year. The result is likely to reduce the need and/or amount of litigation in these type of cases"....The Order gave me until 28 August 2006 (A Bank Holiday & the Courts are closed on the 28/08/2006) to object to the Order. If I objected to the Order, I had to make an application to the CC, to have the stay/Order set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days!......Today, Friday 25 August 2006. The court is closed on Monday 28th! I personally submitted an N244 Application Notice to the Court, requesting that the stay of my case ordered by the Judge be set aside and....my Application was accepted by the Court.

`Please Note, that the again 'unacceptable' MS settlement Offer was open for acceptance until 28 August 2006, the very same day, that my objection to the "Stay", had to be submitted to the court. I will again add, that the above wording is simply my thoughts, as a British Subject/ or EU Citizen? ...Angry Cat Hissssppptttt- GRrrrrrrr

[Bookworm]

Brilliant. Delighted to hear that the judge consented straight away to the stay being lifted.

 

So all proceeding apace for now, huh. Ah well, you might as well relax for the weekend now, hey? lol.

[angry cat]

Hi Bookworm-

No, you misunderstand me !...The Court Official simply accepted my Application Notice Form 244, which requested "That the Stay on my case, ordered by the District Judge, be set aside". My Application Notice Form 244, is yet to be viewed by the District Judge, who is apparently away on holiday. I presume that another District Judge will view my 'Application Notice' regarding my request correctly ...and that the 'stay' will be set aside, as it should be! AC

[Bookworm]

Oooohh.... Well, I did think it was awfully quick! lol

 

Ah well, nothing changed then. You can still enjoy the weekend either way!

[angry cat]

Yes, Indeed... !

I wish you also, A Happy & Peaceful Bank Holiday-

Miouw & Purrr-zzzz

AC

[angry cat]

Hi Guys- The following is a letter that I sent to Morgan Stanley by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery, the majority of which they have ignored...........................!?? Thank you for your letter dated 18 August 2006. Please refer to my letter to you dated 18 July 2006, which was in response to your letter dated 5 July 2006 "I will reiterate that I was forced to issue Court Action because Morgan Stanley failed to pay me ALL the monies that are owed to me. I will not withdraw the Action until Morgan Stanley has paid the total amount of my Claim including section 69 County Courts Act 1984 interest and the County Court issue fee of £50.00. May I remind you that my litigation was entererd into, is a result of your previous failure to enter into a sincere dialogue with me to resolve my dispute" However, I am prepared to cancel my Court Action on full unconditional settlement of my claim, including interest and my County Court fees to which I am entitled. Whilst I would be prepared to accept the full settlement of my claim including the £50.00 County Court issue fee without admission of" (my) "liability, the terms & conditions sought to be imposed by your letter dated 5 July 2006 are unreasonable and not acceptable." "Furthermore, I demand that you immediately desist with your retaliatory action in defaulting me and that if I have to go to court, I will have no hesitation in bringing your attempts at intimidation to the attention of the judge, and leave it to him/her whether the timing was sheer coincidence"...................."In closing and again as mentioned, I am willing to accept the figure of £496.50 in settlement of this claim with no other terms implied with this acceptance. No more, no less". Your response to my above quoted letter was dated 19 July 2006. Factually, this letter agreed to the amount of £496.50 however the Morgan Stanley settlement offer continued the attempt at imposing unfair conditions upon my reasonably simple monetary claim and as you are aware, I replied to your offer of settlement 27 July 2006. "I do not accept a clause of confidentiality, to be placed on MY claim against Morgan Stanley. If you are prepared to proceed to court because of the confidentialy issue, so be it. I feel that a judge will take a dim view of the defendant trying to impose a condition on the claimant in what is a reasonably simple monetary claim, but it has to be your choice. On the other hand, this Claim could be settled very quickly if you would just send me full payment, as you have already indicated that you are prepared to do". Take Notice, that I am mindful of Court 'pre-action protocols', "issuing a claim should always be your last resort. The Court will expect you to have acted reasonably such as by exchanging information and relevant documents about the dispute and to generally try to avoid the need for making a claim". I take the view, that I have given you ample opportunity to settle my Claim! Please see my letter to you dated 02 July 2006, which makes mention of my statutory "Notice Pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 that I sent by recorde delivery to Morgan Stanley 27 April 2006. I have today issued a formal complaint against Morgan Stanley to the Information Commissioner's Office about the failure of Morgan Stanley to comply with my "Notice Pursuant to Section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998". Please also take notice, that I intend to take my own Legal Action for non-compliance against Morgan Stanley, unless you pay all the monies that are owed to me in full and correct my Credit Register. Failure to do so will result in my Claim being amended to take your section 10 Data Protection Breach into account." Yours sincerely AC.................................................This morning I received the following response by return of post, However, it ignores the majority of the ablove letter !??Dear Angry Cat Further to your letter of 30 August 2006, we are prepared to offer you £496.50 in full and final settlement of the Claim. This offer is made without prejudice except as to costs. Morgan Stanley is prepared to make an offer of settlement of $496.50 in respect of the Claim on the following terms: 1. Morgan Stanley will make a payment (by cheque) of £496.50 for the Claim being withdrawn. 2. You will write to the Court within two days of accepting this offer, informing them that you would like to withdraw the Claim. A copy of the letter sent to the court will be provided to Morgan Stanley. 3. This offer is open for acceptance until 10 Septemebr 2006. Please indicate your consent to the above by signing anhd returning the enclosed copy of this letter by 10 September 2006." So, guys nearly there!! the only trouble is that MS appear to want me to write to the court within 2 days of accepting the now relatively unconditional offer and inform the court that I wish to withdraw my claim. What should I do? If I do withdraw the Claim, then they could back peddle - i.e. not pay the money but, my claim will have been withdrawn. I want to settle as this situation has gone on long enough!! However, I obviously do not wish to burn my bridges. Advice Please.....Thanks AC

[Rooster-UK]

Hi, Angry Cat.

Have been following your claim with interest.

 

I would suggest that you write back accepting the settlement in principle except that any claim withdrawal letter to the court will not be sent until you are in possession of CLEARED FUNDS to the full value of your claim.

 

In other words, when I've got the cash in my hot sticky little hand, then, and only then, will I cancel my claim.

Remember that you want the cheque cashed....... a cheque can always be cancelled.

 

Good luck.

[Bookworm]

Rooster is absolutely right.

 

No need for a long letter, short and sharp will do:

 

"Dear Ms,

 

I accept payment by cheque of £496.50 as settlement of my claim. However, I will notify the court that I withdraw my claim once the cheque has CLEARED and not before.

Yours, etc"

 

Nearly there, nearly there, wait for it.....

[angry cat]

Thanks Rooster-UK and of course, the lovely Bookworm (What happened to the glamorous Kissing Chimpanzee pic?! ) Anyhow, I agree with the suggested short business like to the point letter that makes the point clearly - "I will notify the Court that I will withdraw my Claim once the cheque has Cleared into my Bank Account and not before." However Bookworm, I am still left with the conundrum regarding the Default that MS registered with the CRAgency (my CRA file) after I had sent a statutory s10 Notice Pursuant to the Data Protection Act. Together with the fact, that MS have now committed an offence by not sending me the Requested Credit Card agreement. I requested a copy of the agreement 2 July 2006 by recorded delivery (received by MS 4/07/06) today is the 4 September 2006. Yes, Bookworm I am very focused, using my brain as opposed to my Heart. Your view, would be greatly appreciated as ever. I am quite troubled by the fact, that as soon as the financial aspect of the Claim is accepted/settled by me, then MS and it's band of DCA's are going to come after me, like some wild west posse and I'm not Annie Oakley !!! Is there a Gary Cooper out there?LOL Love AC

[angry cat]

Hi Guys.....Advice Please ! Thanks AC

[jonni2bad]

Hi Angry Cat

 

Just briefly to save some time for me!!! could you let me know

 

1. Value of default notice

2. Level of charges imposed at the date of default

[angry cat]

Hi Angry Cat

 

Just briefly to save some time for me!!! could you let me know

 

1. Value of default notice

2. Level of charges imposed at the date of default

Hi Jonni2bad, I have attached a Link that might help to explain hopefully http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/9016-angry-cat-morgan-stanley.html#post27905 IMHO the Default that MS registered against me was a retaliatory action. Basically I was left with a huge debt after my PPI Disability Insurance Claim came to an end. The Insurance policy had Unfair contract terms because it was limited by ambiguously worded 'Limitation & Exclusion' clauses, cleverly written and not Clear to a consumer. Therefore, I could not make another claim. My initial balance at the time of becoming unwell was approx £10,000 and it was my understanding that the balance would be cleared at the end of my Claim. I did not recover as my illness became long term. However, the PPI cover ran out after 24 months (I had continued to pay the monthly insurance premiums all through the Claim plus I was charged interest on the premiums, as they are treated as a purchase) The monthly insurance payments amounted to 3% monthly of the £10,000 debt, but with the constant adding of insurance premiums, interest and Fines, becasue the Ins. company were often late paying, I have been left with a debt of £5,000. After I was informed that the insurance, had come to an end, I continued to pay the minimum repayment (because I didn't want my credit ref. file ruined) but then MS hiked up the interest. I then discovere the BAG and thought "HOLD ON" this situation is wrong!!! It was at that time that I went through all of my statements and was shocked to discover that I had been penalized with the Unlawful Penalties, pushing up my 'questionable debt' even more. It was around this time that I sent my BAG preliminary letter, refusing to pay any more money, until my dispute was resolved. Of course, I was then hounded & harassed by MS. I provided them with a S10 DPA Notice, they sent me a Notice that they would Default me within 28 days on 8 May 2006. I wrote again complaining and requested MS to freeze any action against me. Basically they have ignored My Requests and IMHO their action was unwarranted and I had 'Justification for my s10 DPA Request' Todate MS are unable to provide me with my original credit card agreement, they have not provided me with a statement since July and factually did not advise me that the deafult had bee registered with Experian. I found out by checking my file - and I was Shocked!! I do not know as to whether they are still fining me? The amount of my Claim up to 31 May 2006 is £496.50 plus £65.00 for the Application notice to have the stay put aside (not sure as to whether one can claim that?) The stated amount owing on the account as of 1 May 2006 was £5,543.81 and MS required a minimum payment of £220.00 *Please note, that the above figure of £220.00 is less that the requested refund of charges. I was unfairly defaulted, because, I objected to the levied charges and demanded a refund, plus interest worked out at an average rate of 15% form the date of each fine up to issuing my Claim Plus the county courts act 8% interest. I am trying to come to come to an agreement with MS, who still continue to impose a condition, but I want the default removed also where do I stand about the fact, that MS have ignored my request for a copy of my credit card agreement. MS continue to 'Hide in the Long Grass'. Apologies, for the long reply. Thanks AC:)

[angry cat]

Jonni2bad, What is your view? Indeed, any BAG/CAG members opinion would be most welcome. Thanks Angry Cat:)

[Bookworm]

Just briefly to save some time for me!!! could you let me know

 

1. Value of default notice

2. Level of charges imposed at the date of default

 

AC, Jonni asked you 2 very specific questions. You answered with a loooooooong post and a link to your other thread, presumably expecting him to read that as well.

 

Could you please just answer his questions? Briefly and specifically, as requested? Then you might, possibly, get answers?

[angry cat]

Sorry Bookworm! The answers are- 1. £220.00 and 2. £368.20 (This figure is made up of 13 x £20 charges = £260 plus interest = £108.20 accrued over a 5 year period. Thanks AC

[jonni2bad]

Ahhh, that's better!

 

"We" tend to work on the principal that if the level of charges (at the time of the default) were equal to or above the default value then you have every right to request its removal from your credit files.

 

It could also be argued where the level of charges were slightly less too, but we don't need to go into that here.

 

My view.... the default would not have been issued had they not made unlawful charges against your account. You now have at least 2 options with regards to the default issue.

 

1. If the default is the only one you have and you can show that it has adversely affected your life or your finances in any other way (like a higher rate of APR for loans because you couldn't obtain standard credit etc etc) then you should consider the possibility of a claim for defamation of character.

 

You could decide, in this scenario, to claim for the refund of charges and the removal of the default notice as one, and a separate, later claim for defamation. Alternatively, let them all go into one claim.

 

If this is the situation you think might match yours, then you need specialist advice. Let us know.

 

2. If the default they issued is not the only one, or if you simply couldn't show that it had affected you financially, you might consider just claiming for the removal from your files, along with the charges.

 

That would be pretty much like my own case, so reading my thread v Halifax should give you an insight into the path you'll find yourself walking along!

[angry cat]

Hi Jonni Thank you ! Quote - "My view...the default would not have been issued had they not made unlawful charges against your account". Scenario number 1 applies to me because the MS default is the only one on my CRA file and yes, without a doubt it will cause me great problems plus an increase in my interest rate. Therefore scenario 1 does match my situation. I have already issue a claim for the refund of my charges. The last time I went to the court to issue an Application Notice Form N244 to get a stay put aside, I asked the court official about amending my excisting claim by adding the DPA breach & Default issue, he informed me that it would be simpler to issue another additional claim against MS for defamation. Therefore, I will need the specialist advice from the CAG on how to complete the particulars of Claim to get the Default removed. Thanks Angry Cat

[jonni2bad]

...without a doubt it will cause me great problems plus an increase in my interest rate. ....

 

We have to stress that court action for these kinds of things must be absolutely crystal clear....

 

You may indeed have experienced these already, but you cannot proceed with this on the basis of what might happen, or what is very likely to -only what has definitely happened and what you can clearly show was a direct result of the default.

 

As an example;

I applied for a loan at x% APR and was rejected. The financial adviser informed me this was solely due to the default on my file. I then had to take a loan at xx% which will cost £xxx more over the same term.

 

In other words, hard facts showing that A caused B and led to C and cost D etc etc

 

As an example of what could not be claimed;

I applied for a loan at x% APR and was rejected. I believe this was due to the default. I decided to take a different loan at XX% and I am claiming the difference...

 

Well, I'm sure you get the point. This is vital if you are going down this route.

 

As for advice on the matter, I will point someone your way, presuming that you can show the above....?

[angry cat]

Thanks Jonni, Well without a shadow of a doubt, if the charges had not been applied in the first intance, then I would not have received the Default. The Default was 'Unjustified' because the level of charges that I have and requesting a refund of, are more than the amount that was quoted on the Default Notice. Plus MS increased my monthly interest rate to 1.313% and....Factually great damage and distress has been caused by the Unwarranted Default, which has blemished my CRA. Therefore, I am fearful of making any kind of application that requires a credit check, because it (the credit check) would undoubtedly fail. Yes, I get your A B C and cost D point, I suppose that I will have to go along that path. All of this, is so unfair. AC

[jonni2bad]

... All of this, is so unfair....

 

You are not wrong...

[angry cat]

Yes indeed Jonni and I will action your Crystal Clear plan shortly! Now, I am going to return to my Claim and the problems surround it. I am not able to come to agreement with MS, because they continue to impose unnaceptable terms. Yes, they have offered the full settlement amount but is only up to 31 May and it is now September 12!? The Claim has become complicated because as you will see from above MS unjustly registered a Default against me. MS hounded me with DCA's and totally ignored my REQUEST Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a copy of the original SIGNED Credit Agreement. I wrote to MS (Glasgow Customer Assistance Dept) a letter of COMPLAINT, basically ranting about the Penalties, DCA's, the fact that my stat. Notice s10 Data Protection Act has been ignored and a demand that the Default be removed. However, I did not receive a response to my letter 20/07/06 until 7 September 2006!? Which reads as follows:- Thank you for your letters of 2 July and 20 July 2006 about your Morgan Stanley account, which I have reveiwed along with all our correspondence to you on this matter. I apologise for the delay in our response (FSA rule - complaints should be replied to within 5 days) I understand that you are requesting that we suspend our collections activity on your account whilst your dispute regarding the outstanding balance is ongoing. I note your request for a copy of the Terms and Conditions applicable to your account at the time it was opened and acknowlege receipt of your postal order payment of £1.00 for processing this request. I enclose a copy of the Terms and Condition applicable at your account open date of 27 April 2000 and return your postal order payment, as we will not make a charge in respect of your request. I can confirm that we have suspended our collections activity whilst we review your concerns although we cannot suppress the release of any standard issue letters from our Customer Assistance Department in respect of the outstanding arrears on your account. I trust this explanation concluded this matter to your satisfaction and you accept this as our full and final response to this enquiry. Thank you for taking the time to provide us with your comments. We do take customer feedback on board as an integral way to improve both our procedures and products. Yours sincerley, Karla Kenny, Customer Liaison Team Manager". Okay now Guys, What an astonishing response????!!!! What about the Default MS??and my CCA Request? I did not make a stat. CCA 1974 request for Terms & Conditions. However, I do thank you for sending back my £1 PO, which I will hold as evidence, along with the electronic proof of delivery of my Recorded Delivery CCA Request dated 2 July 2006. So Guys this is the latest update, I'm confused and feel sure that you are thinking the same Why are MS giving the impression that the left hand doesn't know, what the right hand is doing...I would be very foolish to believe that, when I have recently received letters from MS Law, 25 Cabot Sq. London 31/08/06 and then the above letter from MS Glasgow 07/09/06. I am very suspicious. Keep the Faith AC:)

[angry cat]

Okay Guys, I have just telephoned Conusmer Direct to complain about Morgan Stanley for the second time. My first complaint was logged onto their system - Consumer Direct is the consumer complaints Dept. of the OFT tel: 08454 040506 Conusumer Direct have now accepted my complaint as VALID ! and are passing the matter to my local Trading Standards for investigation. Consumer Direct informed me that I should not continue with the MS 'Offer of Settlement', until Trading Standards provide me with their view. Obviously, this is due to the complexity of my COMPLAINT which includes - PPI, Harassment form several DCA's at the same time and non compliance with my Request Under the CCA 1974. Plus there is the issue that MS ignored my s10 DPA Notice?! and just went ahead by registering an Unjustified Default against my CRA file with Experian. Anyhow, I will update this thread when TS have contacted me, apparently within the next 5 days. Love AC

[angry cat]

My local Trading Standards acted very swiftly after receiving details of my 2nd complaint made to Consumer Direct. TS emailed me today and then I spoke at length on the telephone outlining all the issues that surround my Dispute and Claim against Morgan Stanley. My next step is to provide them with all the documents and letters that I hold (that should make quite a large bundle!) and then upon receipt of my information TS will then begin their investigation. There were many areas of my dispute that obtained a 'Heads Up' from the lady at TS and I got the definate impression that she considered many aspects Unfair. Of course, my concerns involve PPI, Harassment, the Information Commissioners Office (relevant) and non compliance with my request for the signed credit agreement between MS & myself, which comes under criminal legislation. I still have to deal with the MS offer of settlement letter! However I am taking little steps...softly, softly catchee monkey. Keep the Faith and remember United we Stand, divided we fall. Love Angry Cat