Angry Cat V Morgan Stanley **WON AT LONG BL**DY LAST!!!**

[angry cat]

Thanks Bookworm! and please note that MS make no mention of the suggested Retaliatory Action, or was the closure of my account sheer coincidence!!!?

 

Here is an update-

 

This morning I received a further offer of settlement from MS, which is unacceptable!

 

"WITHOUT PREJUDICE EXCEPT AS TO COSTS

 

Dear XXXXX

 

Case Number XXXXXX(The Claim)

 

Thank you for your letter dated 18 July 2006.

 

In response, Morgan Stanley are prepared to offer you £496.50 in full and final settlement of the Claim.

 

However, we do not feel that the terms on which we have asked you to accept are either unreasonable or unacceptable.

 

As you are willing to our accept our offer without admission of liability on the part of Morgan Stanley, we are simply asking for you to inform the court (and ourselves) that you are withdrawing your claim and to keep the terms of the offer made to you by Morgan Stanley confidential.

 

If you wish to accept the offer on the basis of these terms, please do so by signing and returning the enclosed copy of this letter by 2 August 2006.

 

Should you continue to find these terms unacceptable, we regrettably have no other option available to us other than to defend the claim in court.

 

Yours sincerely".

 

Okay, so MS have agreed to refund my £50.00 court issue fee now but it is blatantly clear that I cannot agree to "CONFIDENTIALITY" and...I am not prepared to inform the court, until the payment has cleared into my Bank account.

 

I am happy to settle with MS but it must be on my terms, therefore do you guy's think that I should use one of mjanet's letters? (mjanet I hope that you would not mind?)

 

Suggested reply-

 

As previously mentioned, I reject any conditional terms to the settlement of my claim against Morgan Stanley, although I am willing to accept a full final refund of £496.50 as reimbursement against the funds that Morgan Stanley unlawfully aquired from my person.

 

There can be no unilateral imposition of confidentiality in these circumstances. I would appreciate acknowledgement of such, and am willing to accept an apology for your attempted abusive deception in claiming that your settlement offer is or can be such. I will certainly pass any more disinformative correspondence from you to the Law Society who no doubt will decide whether this is a matter of discipline or merely requires more Continuing Education points.

 

In closing and again as mentioned, I am willing to accept the figure of £496.50 in full and final settlement of this claim with no other terms implied with this acceptance.

Yours

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks

Angry Cat

[surreyscouse]

Angry cat,

 

I may be mistaken (somebody tell me if i am) But don't bother threatening them with the law society as they are only there to protect members of the public who have complaints against their own solicitor, not solicitors defending somebody else. I cam accross this last year when i contacted them about a thid party solicitor and this was effectively what they told me.

 

I may be wrong, but if i am right, i just don't want you to threaten them with things that don't affect them, and then them undermining you.

[barracad]

I would add to your letter that you will inform the court of settlement as soon as you receive cleared funds - just so it's clear to them that you are willing to drop the case if it is settled in full.

[Janet-M]

I thought I would put this in here rather then answer your PM , as that way everyone sees the answer.

 

I have no objections to you using my letter or any part of it .The way I see it is we are all here to help each other and if anyone posts a letter on this forum then any other user can use it .

 

As for the law society ..then yes you can complain to them and from the advice I got from a solicitor the law society would step in where a complaint is made re disinformative corrospondence .So I would keep that part in except rereading your past few posts (I haven't got time to read them all , sorry ) it seems they are asking for confidentiality not telling you that all the letters MUST be kept confidential , correct me if I'm wrong ? so therefore I do not understand why you are putting this ?

[surreyscouse]

see, told you somebody could prove me wrong !

[angry cat]

I have no objections to you using my letter or any part of it .The way I see it is we are all here to help each other and if anyone posts a letter on this forum then any other user can use it .

 

As for the law society ..then yes you can complain to them and from the advice I got from a solicitor the law society would step in where a complaint is made re disinformative corrospondence .So I would keep that part in except rereading your past few posts (I haven't got time to read them all , sorry ) it seems they are asking for confidentiality not telling you that all the letters MUST be kept confidential , correct me if I'm wrong ? so therefore I do not understand why you are putting this ?

 

mjanet thank you but now I am not quite sure what you mean - sorry to be thick!

 

I said that "I was prepared to cancel my Court action on full UNCONDITIONAL settlement of my claim" "Whilst I would be prepared to accept full settlement of my Claim including the £50.00 County Court issue fee without admission of liability (I meant my liability) the terms and conditions sought to be imposed by your letter 05 July 2006 are unreasonable and unacceptable" "I am willing to accept the figure os £496.50 in settlemement of this Claim with no other terms implied with this acceptance"

 

MS are requesting "and to keep the terms of the offer made to you by Morgan Stanley confidential"

 

I do not wish to keep the offer confidential, that is why I posted the offers on the BAG forum, to help other consumers. How can I, it has been posted on the internet.

 

Perhaps, mjanet what you mean is to leave out the part about reporting the MS Law Divison to the Law Society? Anyhow I am most grateful that you will permit me to use part of one of your excellent letters regarding the confidentiality issue.

 

These are the MS terms:-

 

1. The offer is made without admission of liability on the part of Morgan Stanley

 

2. Morgan Stanley will make payment (by cheque) of £496.50 for the Claim being withdrawn.

 

3. You will write to the XXXX County Court within two days of accepting this offer, informing them that you would like to withdraw the Claim. A copy of the letter sent to the XXXXXCounty Court will be provided to Morgan Stanley Law Division, 25 Cabot Square London E14 4QA

 

4. The terms of this offer shall remain confidential between yourself and Morgan Stanley.

 

5. This offer is open for acceptance until 2 August 2006.

 

Can I agree to term number 1 ?

 

I cannot agree to term number 3, because I will not withdraw until I have the cleared funds in my account.

 

I will not agree to term number 4 !!! Because it is NOT fair.

 

I am not being difficult, but I do not wish to be sunk right at the end!

 

Any comments welcome

 

Thanks

 

Angry Cat

[cumbria123]

Sounds like your decisions are ok. You can agree to no 1 as they are only acting for the bank.

[Bookworm]

I personally would keep it simple:

 

"Dear Sir/Madam, I will inform the courts that I am withdrawing my claim once and not before the funds for my claim have cleared.

 

I do not accept a clause of confidentiality to be placed on MY claim against you/your clients (sorry, I have lost track whether you're talking to MS direct or their solicitors).

 

If you are prepared to proceed to court because of the confidentiality issue, so be it. I feel that a judge will take a dim view of the defendant trying to impose a condition on the claimant in what is a reasonably simple monetary claim, but it has to be your choice.

 

On the other hand, this claim could be settled very quickly if you would just send me full payment, as you've already indicated that you are prepared to do.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

AC"

 

Ignore no 1 altogether, that doesn't need even responding to.

[angry cat]

Yes, I agree Bookworm to keep the letter simple would probably be better.

 

However, I am still unsure about what to do?

 

I have and am being harassed by MS Debt Collectors all whilst I have registered my dispute with them. Please see my post on page 13 of the Debt Collectors thread.

 

I have written to MS in Glasgow complaining about their unfair business practices and complained to the OFT.

 

Also before I come to any agreement with MS, I have another question:-

 

As you know I am claiming £388.20

Plus CCA interest of 8% £ 58.2956

plus issue fee £ 50.00

 

Total £496.4956

 

What I actually stated on my particualars of claim and right at the bottom:-

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS INTEREST AT THE CONTRACTUAL RATE OF INTEREST OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, 8% PURSUANT TO SECTION 69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 A YEAR, FROM THE 06 NOVEMBER 2001 WHEN THE MONEY BECAME OWED TO ME TO 31 MAY 2006 AND ALSO INTEREST AT THE SAME RATE UP TO THE DATE OF JUDGEMENT.

 

Please bear in mind that I issued my claim on 31 May 2006. Therefore the interest that I had calcualted only took me up to 31 May 2006. Today is 25 July 2006 and a further 55 days has passed since I issued my claim!

Surely, I should be claiming these extra days at the appropriate interest rate?

 

To be honest, if MS had played ball with me and hadn't gone down the harassment route, then I would be more lenient with them. Why should I be lenient they are treating me atrociously!!!

 

Let know your thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Angry Cat

[Bookworm]

In theory, you are of course absolutely right. But is the amount worth the hassle? That's your call.

 

Send that letter asap, the sooner they settle, the sooner you can tell the DCA and MS to sod off.

[angry cat]

I am not sure that I even should give MS a centimetre....because

They are not giving me an inch-

MS are Guilty of Unfair Business Practices/Methods through their instructed :-

 

a. Solicitors / Debt Recovery Agent - Shoosmiths

 

b. DCA Agent BCW Group....who sent me a fake Telegram from their company "The Telegrame Bureau"

 

c. Now BCW are pretending to send me a letter from a solicitor/ surprise, surprise the soliciror GPBLAW also run a Debt Recovery part to their Law firm.

OH, but because they have to satisfy the Law Society Rules!!!

I am not allowed to write back to this solicitor namely Geoffrey Parker Bourne---

 

However the GPBLAW secondary address is at the top of the letter, giving the letter their authority but.....

I cannot telephone or write to this solicitor, I am informed that I must only contact the BCW Groups telephone number. Well, why are the solicitors writing me the letter- to frighten me of course.

 

Morgan Stanley, I hope that you are reading this, because your actions are shamefull and immoral!!

 

Hopefully I can complain to The Law Society, about Practice Rules and Basic Principles of a Solicitor - Geoffrey Parker Bourne i.e. The Good Repute of a Solicitor or of the profession.

I excercised my Right to Claim back Unlawful Charges. I am in 'Dispute' but that does not seem to stop my being hounded by the MS intructed lowlife DCA's-

There have been three DCA's, but Morgan Stanley say's nothing about the DCA's.

 

Morgan Stanley know full well, that I am unwell......and the debt that I am being hounded for, is made up of interest and useless PPI premiums that couldn't be used?

 

 

A very offended and Upset Angry Cat

[Bookworm]

OK.

 

Following your pms, I have now re-read your thread from start to finish. Not alwaysy easy as you had so many threads going that you got various answers to your questions, but I think I'm there.

 

You're maybe not going to like what I am about to say, but here goes anyway:

 

What I said a few days ago stands. They have offered to settle in full with conditions attached. All you have to do is reply refusing any conditions attached. Once they cave, you have WON.

 

Don't let your anger, bitterness and hurt get in the way, they are clouding your judgment. You are inches away from making them pay up. Only you are delaying now.

 

The issue of the default, retaliatory action and appalling treatment is now a separate issue. So is the missing original contract. You are, in some way, still letting them call the shots, and it's working. I told you on the 18th, one whole week ago, how to answer them. You still haven't done it because the DCAs are distracting you.

 

Once they have capitulated, and let's face it, they already have, look at the difference between their first arrogant demands and conditions to their first offer compared to the last one, and you have your claim behind you, then you can concentrate on the rest.

 

I have a suspicion that the DCAs are sabre rattling because they know that if they try to obtain a CCJ and default against you, and the contract hasn't turned up, they'll get laughed out of court, and they could end up having to write off your whole balance. But you can't do anything about it right now! Ok?

 

Deal with what you can now. Deal with the rest later.

[angry cat]

Hi Guys-

 

Well, I sent the following letter to MS on 27 July 2006 and...todate I have not heard a thing from them?

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 19 July 2006.

 

I will inform the XXXXXX County Court that I am withdrawing my Claim once and not before the funds for my Claim have cleared.

 

I do not accept a clause of confidentiality to be placed on MY Claim against Morgan Stanley.

 

If you are prepared to proceed to court because of the confidentiality issue, so be it. I feel that a judge will take a dim view of the Defendant trying to impose a condition on the Claimant in what is a reasonably simple monetary claim, but it has to be your choice.

 

On the other hand, this Claim could be settled very quickly if you would just send me the full payment, as you have already indicated that you are prepared to do.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Obviously, because I have not received the settlement or heard a peep from MS, then one must assume that the confidentialy issue, is very important to MS!

 

So, I wonder what the next move is? Court I suppose.

 

Angry Cat

[Bookworm]

Up to them, isn't it? But I doubt it.... It looks it's going to be one those staring contests now. All you have to do is sit tight until it becomes uncomfortable for them... and it will...

[angry cat]

Thanks for your wise words Bookworm!

 

Did you notice that I omitted the 'Without Prejudice' in my latest letter?

 

Well I am sitting tight and my Head is ruling my Heart:)

 

Thanks

Angry Cat

[Bookworm]

Good girl yourself!

[angry cat]

Help Please!!!

 

I am absolutely devasted

 

I applied to Experian for my Credit File, which arrived this morning and...

I cant believe it ! MS have defaulted me even though I sent them a Data Protection Act section 10 Notice. I issued my Claim against them 31 May 2006 and on the 8 June 2006 they Defaulted me.

 

It is very obvious that MS are going to Defend my Claim in Court.

 

What do I do now?

Does the MS defence require a response from me and...

should I add something to my particulars of claim about this very unfair default, which of course has now totally messed up my credit file.

 

Thanks

Angry Cat

[dave]

c. Now BCW are pretending to send me a letter from a solicitor/ surprise, surprise the soliciror GPBLAW also run a Debt Recovery part to their Law firm.

OH, but because they have to satisfy the Law Society Rules!!!

I am not allowed to write back to this solicitor namely Geoffrey Parker Bourne---

Sadly, they are not pretending (that would be VERY serious), GPB DOES exist and is a member of the law society, so sadly, they have done nothing illegal there.

 

Did they respond to your s.10 notice? They have to reply within 21 days with reasons why they disagree or the steps they are taking to comply.

 

If not, or they sent a letter and didn't mention it, then the first thing is to complain to the IC.

They'll probably be glad of something a bit more interesting, other than non-compliance for sending out lists of charges ;-)

 

I would then write back to MS stating that you have done this and that you intend to take your own legal action for non-compliance, unless they pay up in full and correct the credit register.

 

Tell them that failure to do so will result in your claim being amended to take the s.10 DPA breach into account.

[angry cat]

Hi Dave & thanks for your prompt response-

 

I initially sent my S10 Notice to MS on 27 April 2006 the same day (27/04/06) that I sent my LBA. I received a general reply "to my recent correspondence" on May 15 2006, which to my request for the repayment of charges. However the 6th para stated "We are unable to amend your credit file" but there was no mention of MS having received to S10 DPA Notice.

 

I also sent a letter of Complaint to Aileen Johnston, Customer Liaison Manager, MS on 20 July 2006, which has been ignored todate. Of course when I wrote the letter of complaint, I did not realise that MS had already defaulted me

 

I also sent a copy of the S10 Notice 6 June 2006 to the 1st DCA - Shoosmiths but I did not receive a response from Shoosmiths and still have not to this date? they just passed the debt on to BCW, who then passed it to Geoffrey Parker Bourne, who are solicitors but they also run a debt collection part of their business.

 

Angry Cat

[blackrain]

Just caught up with all the threads. You haven't received a signed copy of the CCA yet? My 12 days are also up today so once 30 go by the debt will be unenforceable as yours surely is now?

 

I'm just amazed you have anyone chasing you for a debt that they can't enforce. Good luck I will keep watching. If I get any interesting news I will let you know.

[dave]

Well if they haven't replied to a s.10 notice within 21 days they have commited an offence and you should report them to the IC firstly.

 

Then I would probably email their solicitor stating that any claim that is going in (or has done) will be amended to include their breach of the s.10 notice - which means of course, that they can no longer just buy their way out.

 

That should shake them up a bit.

 

I have just done exactly that with Abbey - and they couldn't give in fast enough - they agreed to wipe out the WHOLE O/D - not just the charges, and they agreed to amend the credit record and send me a letter stating that they WILL NOT issue a default.

[angry cat]

Hi Guys!

 

Just an update-

 

Morgan Stanley have failed to send me a signed copy of the CCA! (Consumer Credit Act Agreement between MS and myself)

They have had 12 days, plus an additional calender month to send me the requested document. The time was up on 16 August 2006, but I allowed an extra couple of days, just in case it miraculously arrived at the last minute.

 

How strange ?

and still no word from them at all!!

 

Angry Cat

[angry cat]

Hi Guys-

I have sent off my Complaint Form to the Information Commissioner, reporting MS for failing to reply to my DPA section 10 Notice and...

My letter to the MS Law Department 25 Cabot Square has gone off, advising them that my Claim will be amended to include their breach of the Section 10 Notice that I sent them 27 April 2006.

 

Naughty Morgan Stanley !

They have gone very quiet?

 

Angry Cat

[angry cat]

Anyone...

Any Thoughts?

 

I would be grateful, for ANY COMMENTS.

 

Thanks

 

Angry Cat

[andrew1]

Angrycat, your thread is guite intreaging. I was trying to catch up with MS as I have had an offer £150 on a claim of £800 so your claim was of interest - bit bitty but I got there. However, I didn't spot the refund...did you actually get it?