A+L Card Debt sold to LINK

[The Phantom]

Hi

 

have had an A&L Credit Card for many moons and just decided to claim all those late payment charges back

I have sent them a SAR with £10.- end of December recorded delivery. They received this 02.01.07 but so far no reply

How long does it take MBNA on average to reply to SAR, wondering whether a chaser is on the cards soon

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Nicole.

 

The banks have 40 days to comply with a SARs request.

Actual time depends on a lot of factors. It's not really possible to generalise.

Give them a reminder at about day 30 reminding them that they still have not complied with your request.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[The Phantom]

Yeah, it is just that Mint Credit Card replied within 1 week and had the statements with me within 2 weeks, so I was just wondering whether other people also thought Alliance & leicester CC was generally slow to respond to these.

But you are of course correct to say they have 40 days in which to respond

[Perseus]

Hi Nicole

Seems to be the luck of the draw with anything to do with MBNA.

My experience has been a struggle - Non-compliance about to expire - contacted their legal department to intervene - and during the SAR process (40+7+7 days letters) I've had DCA threats/default threats etc.

 

Looking at other posts, they've had full compliance within 2-3 weeks, and paid out in full fairly soon after prelims.

Schedule those reminder days and just wait for the postie.

 

Good luck

 

P

[The Phantom]

 

Have sent SAR to A&L Credit Card (account riddled with charges) end of December last year, 40 days are up on Monday 12.02. with no reply whatsoever

Will then send the LBA for SAR non compliance on Tuesday. If still no reply after the next 7 days I will probably have to go down the N1 route through the courts

Have however received this months statement through the post with small note on the bottom stating the account is being prepared to be sold to a third party.

When that happens, what do I have to do then ? Do I have to change everything to the purchaser of the debt or still MBNA ?

Also if the purchaser contacts me initially, is it woth to CCA them and see if they can come up with a true signed agreement to start with as I had the CC with A&L for probably 11 or 12 years and it may be interesting to test if they can find the agreement ?

[progenic7]

 

Have sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to A&L Credit Card (account riddled with charges) end of December last year, 40 days are up on Monday 12.02. with no reply whatsoever

Will then send the LBA for S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) non compliance on Tuesday. If still no reply after the next 7 days I will probably have to go down the N1 route through the courts

Have however received this months statement through the post with small note on the bottom stating the account is being prepared to be sold to a third party.

When that happens, what do I have to do then ? Do I have to change everything to the purchaser of the debt or still MBNA ?

Also if the purchaser contacts me initially, is it woth to CCA them and see if they can come up with a true signed agreement to start with as I had the CC with A&L for probably 11 or 12 years and it may be interesting to test if they can find the agreement ?

 

Hi Nicole, firstly i would send in the complaint to the information commissioner so atleast they are aware of it, and you then have leverege. Then i would write them a very snotty letter letting them know they are now in breach of the Data Protection Act and You have sent in complaint to information commissioner. State in letter they have 7 days and you will take them to court where you will be seeking compensation on top also.

Dont worry about the account being sold your issues still lie with MBNA, they are the people who levied charges on your account. They are the people you will be taking to court (if that day comes).

It wouldnt be a bad idea to send CCA request to the third party just to check all is in order. But apart from that ignore the third party for now.

Persist with MBNA and dont let up, let them know you are strong and will not under any circumstance back down from their s**t

 

Best of luck

 

pm if you need any more help ;-)

 

my current MBNA battle ensues http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/59101-progenic-mbna.html

[The Phantom]

I have just printed off the SAR non compliance letter giving them 7 more days

May also just send them a CCA request for a copy of the original agreement

They have stated in their latest letter that they may legally assign the debt to a third party and I will no longer be a customer of MBNA then. Hmmm

Strange, I never officially knew I was in the first place , as I originally took out a Credit Card with A&L,not MBNA

I was never informed they were taken over by MBNA

May not be relevant, but I thought they had to tell you ?

[seniorservice]

Ask for a copy of the deed of assignment when you send your CCA request. Don't hold your breath though.

[The Phantom]

As they are not actually threatening any court action at this time , only indicating they may sell the debt, I may wait until I hear from the purchaser and CCA them as the debt collecting agencies are usually more aggressive in their approach.

It may be a nice ace up the sleeve for that time (well at least until 2008 when the CCA changes in favour of the creditor, but I may still hold on a short while with the CCA and just wait for the DCA to contact me)

May only pursue the SAR for the time being

[Cornucopia]

As they are not actually threatening any court action at this time , only indicating they may sell the debt, I may wait until I hear from the purchaser and CCA them as the debt collecting agencies are usually more aggressive in their approach.

It may be a nice ace up the sleeve for that time (well at least until 2008 when the CCA changes in favour of the creditor, but I may still hold on a short while with the CCA and just wait for the DCA to contact me)

May only pursue the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for the time being

 

Hi Nicole,

 

Could you expand on the bit above that says the CCA changes in favour of the creditor in 2008? I haven't come across that before and it may need to be shouted out a bit?! Thanks!

[stan5131]

Just a thought, but did you send everything by recorded delivery?

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole,

 

Could you expand on the bit above that says the CCA changes in favour of the creditor in 2008? I haven't come across that before and it may need to be shouted out a bit?! Thanks!

 

Yes, it was posted by member zootscoot, the CCA ist changing in April this year but apparently this change will affect only new agreements initially (taken out after April 07), but all agreements from 2008 onwards.

 

Have a read here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/25668-curious-twist-two-cca.html

read first page to about post 16

 

And also

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/65019-cca-amendment-2006-7-a.html

 

When saying"in favour of creditor" I mean they do not necessarily have to have the original true signed copy of an agreement anymore to enforce a debt in court . At the moment they need it - without it - no debt - no enforcement. Under new law this apparently changes

8-)

[The Phantom]

Just a thought, but did you send everything by recorded delivery?

 

Of course - all correspondence has always been sent recorded

Have today lodged complaint to Information Commissioner via Website, LBA for non compliance to be posted tomorrow 1st class recorded

I am contemplating to servce them with s85 as discussed in Battleaxe's thread in the forum

but still trying to find out a bit more. Don't want to hijack her thread though by jumping in asking dumb questions there

[ladybird17]

Re serving them S85 default - go into this thread - it's been started specifically or MBNA & S85 in order to separate this issue from other MBNA and the Consumer Credit Agreements thread

 

s.85 gang vMBNA (1 2)

 

Come and join our gang!

[The Phantom]

Hi

 

decided to start a fresh thread as I am now at the beginning of a nice battle with MBNA (well A&L CC which are now MBNA)

Have had a A&L Credit Card for many, many years , the balance on this one shot through the roof due to some serious financial problems my husband had. He made in desperation a balance transfer from one of his credit cards to mine and has since declared himself bankrupt. Now I am the proud owner of part of his debts. There are about 6 K on this card, and many many charges regarding over the limit fees and late payment fees ( On my net part time income of £500.- with two children I was unable to meet their required monthly payments of over £300.-)

I have tried to communicate with MBNA in writing, but they do not tend to reply to what you have written but send pre-printed , unrelated nastygrams by the lorry load.

I have made a S.A.R which they totally ignored (no reply ever received. Deadline of 40 days expired in mid February, 7 day LBA sent afterwards but again no reply. Information Commissioner has had a complaint and has written to me to say they will include me in their mass complaint against MBNA at the end of February....) Nothing else so far on this

 

I have sent them a s85 default notice for good measure a while ago, again with no reply and also a CCA asking to see the original agreement. (Template letter and fee sent) The first 12 day deadline has come and gone with no reaction from them.

Have received instead a letter from them today stating that they will sell the debt by the end of the month unless I pay them £XXXX immediately

 

So where do I go from here, they do not react to any communication (all my letters were sent recorded and have been received) but just fire out their little nastygrams. Can they legally sell the debt despite being in breach of the SAR and in default regarding the CCA s 77/78 (and potentially s85) ?

 

If I do not hear from them but from a debt collection agency next, what should I do ?

 

I know there are some dedicated MBNA enemies here, so any ideas from the CAG MBNA forum think tank would be most welcome

[rosierose]

Hi Nicole

 

There's a reason why MBNA don't like sending out agreements - if yours is anything like the one sent to me it will be unenforceable and always will have been. Read the judgement of Wilson v First County Trust appeal to see what that might mean.

 

I don't think it can do any harm to get TS on board. From what I have read they can be a bit variable, but my local office has been a help. By trying to enforce the agreement MBNA are clearly committing offences under the Administration of Justice Act and TS should act on this if nothing else - ie the CCA information offences.

 

There is also the matter of compensation for the distress and annoyance caused by there actions. TS (civil) could quite possibly take an interest in representing you in this aswell; and for any possible defamation due to incorrect data processing.

 

I don't know whether these are policy decisions or merely incompitence but they have dug themselves quite a hole in your case and it should be fun watching them try climb out.

 

Reminds me, I must serve an s85!

[Cornucopia]

Hi

 

decided to start a fresh thread as I am now at the beginning of a nice battle with MBNA (well A&L CC which are now MBNA)

Have had a A&L Credit Card for many, many years , the balance on this one shot through the roof due to some serious financial problems my husband had. He made in desperation a balance transfer from one of his credit cards to mine and has since declared himself bankrupt. Now I am the proud owner of part of his debts. There are about 6 K on this card, and many many charges regarding over the limit fees and late payment fees ( On my net part time income of £500.- with two children I was unable to meet their required monthly payments of over £300.-)

I have tried to communicate with MBNA in writing, but they do not tend to reply to what you have written but send pre-printed , unrelated nastygrams by the lorry load.

I have made a S.A.R which they totally ignored (no reply ever received. Deadline of 40 days expired in mid February, 7 day LBA sent afterwards but again no reply. Information Commissioner has had a complaint and has written to me to say they will include me in their mass complaint against MBNA at the end of February....) Nothing else so far on this

 

I have sent them a s85 default notice for good measure a while ago, again with no reply and also a CCA asking to see the original agreement. (Template letter and fee sent) The first 12 day deadline has come and gone with no reaction from them.

Have received instead a letter from them today stating that they will sell the debt by the end of the month unless I pay them £XXXX immediately

 

So where do I go from here, they do not react to any communication (all my letters were sent recorded and have been received) but just fire out their little nastygrams. Can they legally sell the debt despite being in breach of the SAR and in default regarding the CCA s 77/78 (and potentially s85) ?

 

If I do not hear from them but from a debt collection agency next, what should I do ?

 

I know there are some dedicated MBNA enemies here, so any ideas from the CAG MBNA forum think tank would be most welcome

 

Hi Nicole,

 

What a terrible time you've had! Welcome to the MBNA Haters Club!! You will be very happy here!!

 

Right, on with business, I am 100% sure that they are not allowed to sell the debt or issue a default whilst it is in dispute and judging by the number of boulders you have put in their path, I think we can be certain that the debt is most definitely in dispute.

 

How do you feel about ringing them? Given that the situation is fairly urgent, I would call them and remind them they have ignored all your correspondence and you are therefore filing an N1 at the County Court for non-compliance of your SAR, your CCA and Sect 85. Remind them in the strongest terms that the debt is in dispute and they cannot sell under those circumstances. If you don't want to do this, I would write immediately stating this fact. Send it Special Delivery (I know this is more expensive but will guarantee next day and will hopefully call a halt to any underhand proceedings). Give them 7 or 14 days to comply, whatever you feel comfortable with. I am sure this will elicit a reaction.

 

I hope this helps and good luck, we will all support you:)

[The Phantom]

Hello and thanks for the first replies from the think tank !

I have changed my telephone number a while ago and A&L / MBNA does not have the new one, therefore they are unable to phone me, which appears to be a blessing reading some of the other posts and threads.

I don't really want to phone them, as I prefer to put everything in writing, I always think they can tell me anything on the phone and then just don't follow it up either, I am a believer in good old fashioned papertrails as the contents are difficult to dispute unlike a telephone call. I am also worried they may have a caller number display and then get my new number.

To give you a bit more information : I had an identical letter to this one approx 3 or 4 weeks ago on MBNA letterhead which triggered my s85 default notice and CCA request to MBNA - I explained to them then that I consider this debt in dispute and advised them not to sell it due to this fact and also not to continue to charge me any late payment fees as I intend to reclaim them anyway once they comply with my SAR (either voluntarily or by force)

Well, as said above - no reply whatsoever until I got the letter today which is identical apart from the fact it is now on A&L letterhead and a different name is printed below as a signature.

I guess I will reply to this letter with a copy of my previous one to MBNA to ease my workload a bit and post it tomorrow. I don't expect a reply to this one either.

It is so bizarre, you think they would at least try to enter into a meaningful dialogue ? I tried to negotiate at some point in the past reduced payments which also fell somewhat on deaf ears, so I decided myself on a small amount I can afford and pay that every month, I mean what else can you do if they don't answer ? ? But as the 12 day deadline for the CCA is up now I will now stop those payments as well until they show the agreement.

[Cornucopia]

Hi Nicole, it sounds to me like MBNA have passed you back to A&L because they can't provide your agreement. I agree with your sentiments about leaving a paper trail entirely, but my thoughts were more along the lines of preventing them from selling it and defaulting you.

 

I agree it is very odd that they would not try and negotiate but MBNA always like to play hardball.

 

I would send A&L a copy of your letter to MBNA, remind them the account is in dispute therefore they will be breaking the law if they try and sell it on. I think all you can do then is sit tight and see what happens. If it comes to Court, you have plenty available to you to prove that you made a massive effort to resolve this and they were obstructive.

 

A little tip, if you dial 141 before you dial a number, your phone number is automatically withheld, so they wouldn't be able to see it anyway. Obviously don't divulge your number to them, they will start a campaign of harassment as they have done to other claimants on this forum!

 

Keep us posted!

[The Phantom]

[The Phantom]

Hi Nicole, it sounds to me like MBNA have passed you back to A&L because they can't provide your agreement.

Aaahh ! Now there is a thought - that could be of course ! Makes you want to ask them - hey, make up your mind who has ownership of this debt .

 

You are of course correct to suggest to dial 141, but I am too much into the writing bit now. I have built up a massive paper trail with really no valid response to any of my letters from them.

I am doing all of this in preparation of a potential attempt by either A&L/MBNA or a subsequent assignor to CCJ me.

I am already building up for a potential defence. That's why at the moment I am not too concerned about their SAR non compliance, I will use that as part of a defence and potential counterclaim at the time, which is always useful as it alleges the claimed amount is wrong due to the unlawful charges.

The only thing is the invlovement of a third party assignor would complicate matters at this stage as I would have to start talking / writing to three companies (A&L, MBNA, Debt Collector) and that would really do my head in

[The Phantom]

Latest on my thread: received a letter from A&L/MBNA today with a list of all charges that were debited to my account over the years. The total comes to just under £400.-

I believe this is their reply to my SAR, but I can't be sure as their letter states they don't agree with the OFT that their charges are unfair and blah blah blah, not that it is their reply to my S.A.R. which requested information spanning my banking history with them (which of course it isn't)

(Anyway, I just take it as their reply to my SAR to make things easy at this stage)

In their letter they also say they have credited £75.- back to my account as a good will offer only and this concludes the matter for them (well, not for me it doesn't... ) as my account is in arrears it will be sold as bad debt to an assignor shortly

 

Still no reference to my CCA request (12 + 30 is up in early April) or to my default notice ref s 85

They did receive my request under the CCA as they have credited the £1.- fee to my account !

 

I will now:

 

-advise them that I will pursue the balance of the charges, as £75.- is considered part payment only (and only if it does show up on my next statement as a credit !)

 

- cease any payments until they produce the agreement and rectify the default caused by s85 non compliance

 

If I hit rocky waters I will ask for help and report any news as well

[Cornucopia]

Nicole, it appears to me that they have not complied with your SAR. Could you confirm exactly what they have provided you with? They think they are being clever at the moment by providing a few random statements and hoping nobody notices, but thanks to us beady eyed lot on here, we have seen straight through them!!! It means they can hide a lot of the charges.

 

Please do remind them that they have not complied with your CCA and it is ILLEGAL for them to sell the debt whilst they are in default under the CCA.

 

I am getting seriously fed up with them..............

[The Phantom]

Hi Cornucopia

 

I have told them in about three letters that they are in default and advised them not to sell the account, but no reaction

The 12 + 30 are up on 5th of April and I intend to report the offence should it come to that. Any ideas where I can report this offence ? (Police ? TS ? )

 

What they sent me yesterday was a letter (quite a long one) signed by Joanne Johnson explaining how incredibly fair their charges are because of the "substantial costs" they incur everytime one of their customers defaults on a payment. They say I agreed to these charges and they expect me to honour these agreed terms and conditions, because if I don't they will terminate the agreement and cancel my card (funny, as they have done that already as it is a bad debt, so I am really scared now) Then she bla blahs on that as a good will gesture they will credit £75 back to my account but due to the bad arrears I need to make another immediate payment of £XXX to prevent this being registered with a credit reference agency (they have already defaulted me anyway so I am shaking in my shoes....boo hoo) They trust this meets my expectations and if they don't hear from me again within eight weeks they will close the matter

Attached was a brief print out with charges scattered over the years 2002 -2006. The total coming to just under £300.- not £400.- as stated incorrectly in my post above. I have had this card since the mid 1990s so there may well be more charges that are not shown on this print out

 

I sent them a letter back advising them I require the full amount refunded or I will start legal proceedings during which they can demonstrate their substatial costs they incurred to a judge.

I also said as they did not comply with my SAR I reserve the right to make further claims should I discover that they did not disclose all charges levied.

I gave them 14 days in which to refund before proceedings would start

 

That was posted today - they should have it on Monday

 

I am still waiting for a reply regarding my CCA, I advised them in separate letters that I will not making any further payments until they have rectified the defaults caused by the relevant sections under the CCA. To those letters I have not had a response.

[Cornucopia]

Hi Nicole, the fact is they probably can't provide your agreement, you might get an application form but we'll have to wait and see......

 

They have obviously not complied with your SAR, this is now par for the course and I recently advised another CAG'er not to accept what they were saying in thier statements and I was proved right, they had hidden a substantial amount of the charges. Deception too? Well done MBNA!!

 

You're on th right track, keep us posted with developments!

 

Regards,

 

Corn x:)