Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!

[Celicaman]

Help.

 

Ive just been reading this thread, (slap my wrist ive not read it before) and now I am worried.

 

Been on the phone today to Halifax re claim over 6 yrs, I was offered less than I claimed for ,(money put in bank infact)

 

Cut a long story short Ive told them I know theyhavent gon to 1999 wit charges only reimbursing me from 2001. Told them to take money back and Ill carry on with claim.

They said not their policy to pay over 6 yrs, Me and my big mouth said Ive seen cases on here that have been paid out.

 

Have I just dropped a big fat WHOOPSIE

 

Think general concensus of opinion is carry on with your pre 6 years claim, they will just have to up their ex gratia offer by £300, as long as its not for CI but charges over 6 years charges only.

They will be hoping that you just give up as they tell you they dont pay up on old charges, I think you already sent a rejection letter, so you could always follow up with a second one stating that whilst you accept the figure of £**** as part payment, you are still going to court for the balance, you should probably quote some of the s32 limitations arguments, just to show you are serious and know your stuff

They will cave in eventually if you do it right, Im sure PM can advise as he just won 12 years worth.

 

CM

[Celicaman]

Oh and no whoopsee lol, why should it be, let them know you know that it is claimable

CM

[overflow]

Thanks Celicaman

 

Tryed to click but told to spread out more, LOL.

 

Youve set my mind at rest , Thank you for all your help and advice:)

[photoman]

I have a question about CI:

 

If the original claim is say 2.5k and the CI brings it to 45k (pre- 6 years) can you enter a court papers with the balance as 2.5k and say inn the POCs you want the CI - I'm trying basically to keep it in the small claims.

 

Cheers.

 

In a word, NO !

 

The total you must enter when you file your N1 must be the total of the claim including any interest.

This is the figure (amongst other things) that is used in determining track allocation. Such attempts to manipulate track allocation will be seen through by the courts.

Only Statutory 8% interest is not included in track allocation consideration.

 

On what basis are you attempting to go for CI?

 

It is generally now considered that claims for Ci based upon implied or explicit terms of Mutuality and Reciprocity of contract are not winnable arguments, and in fact there have been cases lost on this basis (look up Halliday v's HBOS 2007).

 

it is also not adviseable to claim the charges, recieve this element of the claim (either through a court or out of court settlement) and then go onto claim Ci as a seperate claim. Without a basis for claiming the Ci in a court (ie a charges claim), such a claim will be thrown out. The two elements must be kept linked and intact.

 

You should think very carefully about pursuing a Ci claim. It is not a matter of just submitting a template and claiming it in a POC.

You must be very sure of the reasonings (which do not include mutuality and reciprocity), and prepared to present them in court.

[photoman]

Congratulations!!!

 

Which bank was this?

 

 

It was Lloyds.

 

Cheque arrived this morning.

 

Details will be posted soon as cleared.

 

Donation will similarly be on way too.

 

Thanks to all on site for the help, support and confidence I have gained, and watch this space for the next phases.

[patrickq1]

We think that claimants should consider claiming beyond 6 yrs.

 

Firstly, the charges campaign has been in full swing now for a good year. The banks were well aware of it a year ago and also the OFT report highlighted the law and the bank's obligations - just in case any of them were at all in doubt.

 

To my mind this is good evidence that any bank which continued its charges regime after the date of the first OFT report has been concealing its charges regime and therefore has lost the protection of the Limitation Act.

 

I do not believe that the Limitation Act offers any long-stop mechanism so that if you concealed the facts one year ago then you do not merely accrue an additional year of liability. I think that a single instance of concealment invokes s.32 and the limitation barrier falls away completely.

 

Concealment amounts to a question of the morality of the defendant's action. Once this is established then I do not believe that the courts will strive to give them any help.

I understand from Zootscoot that this view is also confirmed by case-law.

 

In fact it seems even if a concealment has occurred even after the breach in question has occurred, the limitation period still falls away.

 

If the banks want to challenge this then it is up to the claimant to respond at least with the arguments above and then if the bank want to rebut this, they can rebut it with a statement of truth.

I doubt whether any of them would dare. They are already getting in too deep as it is.

A statement of truth which is made knowing that it is false or reckless as to its truth is a contempt of court. I do not believe that the banks would go this far

 

We would urge all claimants to claim as far back as they can.

In the case of the Yorkshire and Clydesdale banks we would suggest that even where claimants have accepted full and final settlements or have accepted compromise settlements that they should now go back for anything outstanding on the basis that the Whistleblower disclosures show that there has been concealment and that any full and final agreements are now vitiated by that concealment.

 

We expect to be giving the same advice in respect of other banks as more information surfaces - as it surely will.

 

However, we consider that beyond 6 years is now just a basic claim.

 

We will be amending templates and so forth in the coming days

thanks bankfodder this means i can now resurect the nat west claim 1992 and also i like the STATEMENT OF TRUTH as i shall ask them for such a statement thanks

patrickq

[groovycaz]

I have just won a claim consisting of 12 years of charges, this was the most recent 6 years, plus the 6 years prior to that.

 

My next claims will consist of charges that are ALL pre 6 years, some as far back as 1984.

 

I will not let up and let them get away with this !

 

This is an interesting post by Bankfodder.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-727697.html

 

 

PHOTOMAN

YOU DARK HORSE, HOW UNDERSTATED IS THIS ANNOUNCEMENT,

IVE BEEN WAITING AGES TO HEAR YOUR NEWS, I JUST KNEW YOU WOULD DO IT CONGRATULATIONS ITS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING,WELL DONE YOU DESERVE IT, CANT WAIT TO READ ALL ABOUT IT:D GC

[noomill060]

Charges + Interest levied thereon+ court fee= principal of claim

 

County Court interest is at the discretion of the Court.

[TANZARELLI]

Congratulations!!!

 

Which bank was this?

 

LTSB

[TUTTSI]

It was Lloyds.

 

Cheque arrived this morning.

 

Details will be posted soon as cleared.

 

Donation will similarly be on way too.

 

Thanks to all on site for the help, support and confidence I have gained, and watch this space for the next phases.

 

 

CONGRATULATIONS ON A JOB WELL DONE...

DS

[hayes]

if you have accepted post six years in "full and final settlement", is it still possible to put in a further claim for pre six years, I have all my statements from 1991, with a now closed HSBC account, can I still put in a further claim, I would really like to do this as the HSBC local manager took personal pleasure in trying to put me out of business by applying massive charges every day, and taking away my pdq facilities - making life in my business exceeding difficult

[oneofakind]

If you accepted 'in full and final settlement of this claim' then you should have no problem. If not, it may still be possible.

 

The whole basis of claiming 6+ years is the fact that the banks concealed, and continue to conceal, the unlawful nature of their charges, and thus lose the protection of the Limitation Act. Therefore, would they want to try to enforce these settlement conditions in court, to attempt to stop you claiming charges you couldn't have known were unlawful at the time you agreed to the conditions?

 

I think not.

 

(JMHO)

 

[Celicaman]

Hayes, in you offer letter it usually says in relation to claim from (date) to (Date) and as long as you sent the acceptance form this forum, there is no problem in putting a second claim in.

Worth checking on your copy of offer letter & what you signed, if different, just as double check, but should not pose problem

 

CM

[hayes]

what it actually states is; in full and final settlement of my claim against hsbc for the charges applied to my account to date. i agree not to make any other claims relating to these charges. in the letter it also stated they reject my claim for charges older than six years.

[oneofakind]

change 'charges applied to my account to date' to 'charges applied to my account between dd/mm/yy and dd/mm/yy' inserting the dates of the first and last charges on your SOC.

 

[Surfer01]

I would be intereste in tackling HSBC or Midlands as they were know in the old days but I no longer have an account number. How can i go about obtaining the account number for a SAR? Thanks.

[sallysas]

Unless you have moved house just write with your address. If they have known you at different addresses put that in your letter. If you know approx how long the account was open - and dates - give that info also.

[Muffintop]

Congratulations!!!

 

Which bank was this?

zoot did you do it in one foul swoop, ie all the 12 years in one claim... or did you do post six years then go back for pre six years, this is my problem with nationwide, iv already done the post six years and its buggered up the pre six year claim.skeggsy

[lizzydripping1]

I am hoping hoping someone can me advice on what to do, I have calculated on the spreadsheets, got that far (the halifax did not comply with the Data Protection Act so I informed the ICO and put in a complaint form to the Financial Ombudsmanwho is investigation the complaint - the total of the unfair charges was around £2800 and the Halifax wrote me a letter which was dated the 6th July (I did not get it until the 10th July(but that is really irrelevant)) offering me what they call a goodwill gesture of 1120.00 . I wrote back on the 11th July saying that I was not going to accept any less than what was on the spreadsheets which was £2,800 and enclosed it. I told them that their offer of goodwill was less than half and their was no way I would accept their "Goodwil" gesture. In the letter from them offering me th 1120 pounds they said that if they did not hear from me within 14 days they would assume that the offer was accept and pay this money into my bank account.

 

But now I look at my bank account and they money has been paid in anyway even though I have written a letter and have a receipt for the letter.

 

What do you think I should do (or do you think I should just contact the FSO on Monday as they have given me a reference no.)

[MacBoy]

Lizzy

 

Go here and read up - there is detailed information and guidance on making the correct response - there are several template letters to cover the likely scenarios. Just because they have part-paid, it needn't prejudice your claim for the rest. Don't worry about it

[TUTTSI]

I am hoping hoping someone can me advice on what to do, I have calculated on the spreadsheets, got that far (the halifax did not comply with the Data Protection Act so I informed the Information Commissioners Office and put in a complaint form to the Financial Ombudsmanwho is investigation the complaint - the total of the unfair charges was around £2800 and the Halifax wrote me a letter which was dated the 6th July (I did not get it until the 10th July(but that is really irrelevant)) offering me what they call a goodwill gesture of 1120.00 . I wrote back on the 11th July saying that I was not going to accept any less than what was on the spreadsheets which was £2,800 and enclosed it. I told them that their offer of goodwill was less than half and their was no way I would accept their "Goodwil" gesture. In the letter from them offering me th 1120 pounds they said that if they did not hear from me within 14 days they would assume that the offer was accept and pay this money into my bank account.

 

But now I look at my bank account and they money has been paid in anyway even though I have written a letter and have a receipt for the letter.

 

What do you think I should do (or do you think I should just contact the FSO on Monday as they have given me a reference no.)

 

Hi Lizzy

IMHO, as they have paid the monies into your account on GGOW, I would on your spreadie deduct this amount you do this by putting a minus in front of the figure that they paid you, put the date they paid it and what it was for (GGOW) this will reduce your claim. So when you go to make a claim against them your spreadie would have taken into account the amount you have be given. I suspect the amount they have given you relates to the current 6 year period and probs 8% interest.

 

Have a look and see is this figure relates to the current period only as if it does you can off set it against the earlier periods with interest by inserting a line on the spreadie where the figures add up to what you have received, leaving the balance in the current period.

DS

[Jeff2000]

Hello lizzy,

 

 

You could, if you like, send this letter. It accepts an offer as part payment only and reserves the right to continue your claim for the remaining balance!

 

Hope it helps!

 

 

 

 

YOUR Street

Town

City

Postcode

Date

BANK NAME

Address

Address

Postcode

Re: Account number XXXXXXXX

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear [named sender or Sirs]

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed on this account, totalling £xxxx

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim if necessary.

 

My letter before action sent previously indicates that you have until xx/xx/xx to respond before Court action commences. You are reminded that there will be no extension to this timescale.

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[signature]

[print name]

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, you may change the content of the letter to fit your own circumstances!

 

 

Good luck, Jeff.

[MacBoy]

Lizzy

I think it's best that you read carefully the section I showed you and base your decision on the template that most closely fits your circumstances. these offer letters come with differing strings and conditions attached and I think that Jonni2bad has done an excellent and diligent piece of work on this subject.

[Jeff2000]

Hi,

 

 

Yes, make it clear in your reply, that any offer that you accept is unconditional!!!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[jubaxt]

bankfodder-could we have a beyond 6 yrs success sticky