*Sigh* Overcharged for trying to sort out council tax debt on the spot

[Moggylash]

Greets,

 

First post here, and I'm not really sure what to do. I probably shot myself in the foot. Anyway, I had a visit for non payment of council tax. My outstanding debt is 350 pounds from last year (I managed to pay most of the total on time). Anyway, he comes to the door and looks a little lost because my intercom is messed up. Expecting deliveries and whatnot I open the door. Big mistake It seems.

 

So he comes in and starts making his little list. 7 minutes later, by the time he left, my debt had jumped from 350 pounds to over 500 pounds. I asked him and I quote 'So if I didn't let you in, It wouldn't have cost me 150 pounds right? And I could have just called and paid it off'. He told me 'no, because you'd just get arrested'. (Exact words)

 

So I attempt to call the office feeling rather unhappy about being punished to the tune of 21 pounds per minute for trying to arrange payments instead of hiding and not answering the door, but that got me nowhere. I gave up after 15 minutes of being told 'I deal with people like you all the time', 'You should have read what you were signing, you don't sound like a very smart person not paying attention to detail like that' and 'You should have paid your council tax on time then'.

 

Is there anything to be done? Or did I shoot myself in the foot by signing the form that I was told I have to sign, or they'll take my stuff right away? (They're under no obligation to allow monthly payments they told me, and apparently I'm lucky they didn't take my stuff then and there).

 

I wouldn't be so worried but for the fact they want to take my only source of income.

 

I'm honestly shocked at being punished for wanting to sort out a debt straight away instead of hiding from the visiting guy. The message seems to be (as I read in one of the stickies) don't let them in. From now on, I won't. I don't usually complain about anything really, so I hope I don't sound whiney, but my work is at stake. I have no choice by to try and do something.

 

Is there any chance, of anything?

 

::Edit - I should also say that I got no letters or phonecalls prior to this happening. They just sent someone straight off the bat.

 

Thanks,

Mog

[mutzi]

Write (don't phone) and ask them to provide a breakdown of their charges.

 

Work out from this page what you should have been charged: National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

 

I wouldn't be so worried but for the fact they want to take my only source of income.

 

From the same page, they cannot take "such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation";

 

Good luck

[Moggylash]

Ah excellent news, it sure is a start. Thanks for that.

 

First up - I haven't heard of them not being able to take work equipment before. That's a huge weight off my shoulders. The strange thing is when the guy was in here, the first thing he asked me was 'where do you work?' I said 'right there', 'I fix sotware up' pointing to the computer. In the next breath, he lists the computer and my equipment.

 

I'm glad this forum exists, and much appreciated mutzi.

 

Just one more quick question before I get to writing the letters, I notice this says bailiffs charges, and this is the amount they are allowed to charge. Is this by law? It looks like I should be liable for about 35 pounds and not 150 in that case.

 

By reading the page it also looks like I should contact the council too. I'll give that a shot when they open tomorrow. I'm assuming they won't be as harsh as the private bailiff company. I'll attempt to call them (the council) first as the bailiffs require the first payment next week, and if that fails, get a letter to them too.

 

The signing the paper thing still worries me a bit, but still, I'll keep updating this as it progress if that's ok, just in case anyone else comes along in the same situation.

 

Thanks again for the useful information,

Mog

[martonman]

All is not lost perhaps. It appears that you signed the bailiff's paperwork 'under duress' having been intimidated by unlawful threats. The bailiff can be struck off for this. They have also overcharged, another strike against and also unlawful.

 

Write to the council and inform them of this, sending a copy to the bailiff firm and a copy to your local county court clerk (they certificate the bailiffs).

 

Next job, pay the council! Pay whatever you can afford as soon as possible and keep up regular payments. Do it online or over the automated phone service if possible, as if you attempt to do it any other way they will just try to refer you back to the bailiff.

 

Hardly surprising that the bailiff behaved in this way as he was most likely self-employed and on commission, possibly up to 40%. It's in his interest to bump up the charges as much as possible. It beggars belief but unfortunately it is true.

[tevion]

big mistake letting him in, but its done now. no you cant be arrested.

get down counciland dont let the fob you off. tell them about charges and what the baailiff saidabout you being arrested. remind them that they are legally liable for the conduct of the bailiffs they employ. kick up a fuss, ask that the warrent be returned to the council and ask to speak to a manager it you get any crap. counciltax recovery charges are set by law, check out national debtline website. 22.50 for first visit, 16.50 for second.

nothing can be charged for furthur visits or any letters sent.

[mutzi]

All is not lost perhaps. It appears that you signed the bailiff's paperwork 'under duress' having been intimidated by unlawful threats. The bailiff can be struck off for this. They have also overcharged, another strike against and also unlawful.

 

 

The problem, and the reason they get away with it, is lack of proof. There are a few threads around here where a bailiff has assaulted someone, usually trying to force their way in and when the police get involved they turn around and make out its them thats been assaulted by the debtor. He'll just deny saying any of it or with regards to listing your equipment that he didn't know it was required for your employment. It's your word against his. This however doesn't mean you can't lay it on thick with the council and try to get them to accept payment direct from you.

 

All you can really do is demand they reduce the charges to the correct level. Obviously this IS something you can prove they've done wrong so they should back down pretty quick. It's just a pity so many people never even know they're being overcharged.

[Moggylash]

Thanks guys, yeah, it doesn't surprise me after reading some of the other threads on the forum that they'll likely just deny anything. At the very least I can prove they've overcharged, because he wrote it all down on the form.

 

On the plus side, I've been working on getting the actual outstanding balance together since my post. As of Monday afternoon, I can offer to pay in full before I have to make my first payment if they can take the account back from the bailiffs, which may help if I can offer that in return. ( I called today, but their system was down)

 

So good news so far. Unfortunately that means I had to hold off on calling and the letters so I could be sure I had the money, so it's all still hanging.

 

Anyway, thanks for the assist so far, I'll let ya know what happens now I have the letters primed, a list of charges in hand, the ability to make the original payment in full to the council. I think that's about all.

 

Cheers,

Mog

[martonman]

So it seems clear in this case that the bailiffs have overcharged.

 

In my mind (though not necessarily the correct legal state) that would invalidate ALL of their charges. I would pay the council the arrears but pay the bailiff nothing.