URGENT HELP NEEDED RE: cca request

[joneshousehold]

Pretty much so. In fact I keep telling them they can't ring, write or anything. They still do but it's quite fun telling them to go back to their legal department. So empowering!

[noomill060]

Keep all the letters and make a note of each and every time they phone you.

 

They are breaking the law each time they contact you, each attempt to enforce an unenforcable agreement is a separate offence, and could cost them £2500 and/or six months imprisonment for each separate offence!

 

Give them enough rope and let them hang themselves.

[peterq2]

they are sods aren't they? they have rang numerous times every day despite my telling them I will only deal with them in writing and they have rang 6 times today alone!!!!

Now that I have that useful bit of info I shall quote it to them and see how they react!

Thanks guys

[joneshousehold]

I've had a very rude young lady on the phone today. I told her that her rudeness only compounded the harrassment argument. That's Cap One for you! When they ask if they can speak to me I just say they cannot speak to the person named and put the phone down. They tend to ring about twice a day. All calls logged, each another offence. As noomill says - give them enough rope....

 

There is a harrassment letter in the templates. Try sending that. It doesn't always work but at least they have been warned

[peterq2]

thanks guys, I have printed off my letter to be sent today, and will let you know what the outcome is. Joneshousehold I hope you get yours sorted out with Cap1 good luck.

[peterq2]

well have had a reply today saying

 

"THANKYOU FOR YOUR RECENT LETTER WHICH HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION I AM CURRENTLY INVESTIGATING THE POINTS YOU HAVE RAISED AND WILL ARRANGE FOR YOU TO BE CONTACTED BY THE 21 MARCH 2007.

 

hmmm they had better do their "contacting" by letter rather than by phone, what do you think will be their next ploy? I find this letter a bit ominous if I am honest and feel a bit worried as to their next course of action!!!!

[noomill060]

I suspect they will searching high and low for the documents you asked for...

[peterq2]

hmmmm so if they suddenly come up with said documents will that make the debt automatically enforceable again or do they have to go to court to re enforce the debt?

 

I dont even know what my next step is do I contact trading standards etc about their offence re the cca request? or wait and see what they do next?

 

*is confused* ...

[peterq2]

Anyone know if they now come up with the paperwork they can enforce the debt straight away or will it have to go to court seeing as they didn't comply with the cca request? Also should I have already contacted trading standards or wait until I get their response??

 

Ta guys

[joneshousehold]

If they produce the documents following a S77/78 request then the default ceases at that time. What you will need to do is check them over and see if they fully comply in respect of both the request and the CCA as a whole. If they don't comply with the request then the default continues (and so enforcement cannot recommence). If they don't comply with the Act as a whole then you are looking at whether there has ever been an enforceable agreement in place and whether they cannot take an further action at all.

 

Good luck

[peterq2]

even though they have run out of time and committed an offence by not supplying the paperwork after 12wd + 1month ? Wonders what the use of a cca request is if they can produce the paperwork at any time? should I still contact trading standards about them then or not bother?

[joneshousehold]

The default only lasts until the documents are supplied. This is according to the wording of the Act. Have a read of the relevant sections. You can look at the Act by using the links in the forum home page.

 

This means that the bank or CC provider cannot charge interest or chase you for payment whilst the default continues. If they cannot find the agreement at all then they cannot take you to court to enforce the agreement as your first statement will be that you do not accept there is any agreement, the court will require them to prove it does but they cannot do so if they have 'lost' it.

 

Also have a look at this thread. It's quite good

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/72443-sainsburys-bank-farce.html

 

Once/if you get your copies however you really need to check them over for compliance with the Act. Have a look at this posting

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-631321.html

 

More details are given in the OFT documents here

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft018.pdf

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft019.pdf

 

Many people are finding that once they start checking there are many faults in the agreements and this can render them totally unenforceable.

 

Whilst you are waiting for a reply, take some time to read around until you really begin to understand the issues. When you are feeling really brave have a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements.html

 

It's over 200 pages long but does go over some important issues especially over the supply of copies. I would give yourself a day or two to get through it. Gloss over some of the arguments, it all washes out in the end.

[peterq2]

Thanks m8 looks like i have a lot of reading to do then! I guess they will prob supply the agreement and that will be that but it has given me a much needed break from the monthly payment whilst its been goin on!

[joneshousehold]

Thanks m8 looks like i have a lot of reading to do then! I guess they will prob supply the agreement and that will be that but it has given me a much needed break from the monthly payment whilst its been goin on!

 

I thought ours would naturally supply the agreement as well but so far they have all failed to comply so perhaps your assumptions are a little misplaced!

[peterq2]

i hope so but its blackhorse and the loan is only a few years old so im not feeling too optomistic tbh! (dont want to get my hopes up only to be disappointed)!

At the very least I've earned myself a few weeks respite (interest and charges free) lol

[peterq2]

well guys, the 21st is here and no contact as promised in that letter of 8th march so what do I do now?

Do I contact them again?

Do I just sit tight and hope they forget about me indefinitely? (LOL)

Do I refer the matter to trading standards FSA OFT etc?

 

I am stumped cos I thought that judging by their previous letter (see above) they would definitely have complied with the cca request by now, any advice/comments gratefully received

[humbleman]

peterq2

 

did you actually pay the default amount(as per your first post), and if not did they put a default against your record.

[peterq2]

hi m8, no I haven't paid anything as I was waiting for them to comply with the cca request.

How do I find out if they have entered a default on my record? Wouldn't they have to inform me when/if they do such a thing?

[peterq2]

hmmm worried now that I should have paid the amount as I was under the impression that after they had defaulted under the cca 12 day rule I wouldnt have to pay until they came up with the paperwork? :/

[peterq2]

still no correspondance from them maybe I should just refer the matter to trading standards and leave it all in their hands? any advice greatly welcomed peeps

[peterq2]

Oh well the payment holiday is over guys, today I received fully executed copies of the agreement so I guess I shall just be thankful for the few weeks off and start up the direct debit again lol

Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say so I will just have to be happy that I had a payment break, good luck to all you other guys who are going down the cca route ~

[joneshousehold]

So does the agreement fully conform with the Act? It's a rare thing, a properly executed regulated agreement! I would heartily recommend a check of the paperwork before concluding that you have in your hands a valid document.

[peterq2]

yeah it is an actual photocopy of the agreement we signed, it has blackhorse representatives signatures and ours its all dated correctly all the terms and conditions are present and correct, pah! not sure what else they could have sent it all seems to be correct to my untrained eye.

It's a shame but c'est la vie!

Good luck with yours m8

[joneshousehold]

Did you trawl through the whole of the OFT document I gave you a link to earlier? There is quite a lot to it (pobably the link to the cancellable agreements is the appropriate one) The way I have done it is to go through each paragraph of the OFT document. Where it refers to an Appendix I bring that information in too. I have then noted each regulation or requirement on some pages I have prepared and each is then numbered by me. I have ended up with about 8 pages of notes with 17 items (I have written out the relevant rights boxes in full just in case). Then I crossed checked each item with the agreement and noted the position for each element on a separate paper. Every error is then highlighted in yellow. It makes it easier to write to them pointing out those errors.

 

It might also be worth pointing out to them that they have breached CCA under S77(4)(b). There was some talk on the other threads that the lenders may be unwilling to take an agreement to court if the lender has breached this section as it is a criminal offence. I do not know if this has been tested but it may be worth a letter or two

 

Did you ever challenge them on the default notice they issued? Have you checked with the credit reference agencies to see if it was registered. If it was you can also point out to them that this was equally unlawful especially if they took this step after the S77(4)(b) breach.

 

It really is your call. These are just my thought and I certainly believe in making these people work hard for their money. As was said earlier in the thread, if you prefer you can follow Gizmo's advice. If you do decide to challenge them just keep me informed and I will offer as much help as I can. If you are concerned about revealing too much on a public forum then pm me.

 

Good luck

[peterq2]

Thanks m8, well after going over the OFT documents once again I have noticed some minor discrepencies but am not sure if they are significant enough to bring to the attention of blackhorse or even if they actually make the agreement unenforceable (without a court order).

Any advice gratefully received:

 

1.the agreement they supplied has no cancellation rights at all!

in the OFT doc it states that the document must contain cancellation rights which must be placed immediately above,below,or beside the signature box.

(there is definitely no mention of cancellation rights anywhere near the signature boxes or anywhere on that page, and I can't find any mention of such rights on page 2 terms and conditions either).

 

2. There is no statement about the possibility of a rebate upon early settlement of the agreement ( the OFT document states that this must be present on the agreement ).

There is no mention of any possible early resettlement rebates at all not even in the terms and conditions.

 

3. The terms and conditions are illegible in parts (due to the photocopying I think) but the OFT doc states that the agreement supplied must be easily legible.

 

4. There are no dates in the customers signature box, the document states that "THE CUSTOMER'S SIGNATURE AND ITS DATE MUST BE INSIDE A BOX"

*However*

The box where the lender signs has a date and states signature on our behalf (where he signed) and date of signature on our behalf which is the date of this agreement. (??is confused??) - does that comply with the cca requirements? as I can find no mention of a setup such as that in the appendixes set out in the OFT documents.

 

As I said all very minor points and I may be just clutching at straws? I think the most notable discrepancy is the lack of cancellation rights as set out above, what do you think?