House flooded Christmas Day - BVS already causing some issues.

[EndlessSummer]

Hello!

So Christmas Day we have the lovely present of our pipe bursting in our kitchen with flooded the lower floor of our house with  water.

 

We called out a plumber and a company to help start getting some of the water and and start with the process of preventative work - ie floors out, carpet cleaning humidifiers etc.
 

We attempted to call our insurance the day off, but as they were out of office, they couldn't help us until a few days later. When we finally spoke to AXA, they provided us with a loss adjuster (BVS) who when looked into on reviews and websites - do not give a great service and have been known to under cut people with cash/cheque offers. The phone call we just had with them confirming their visit tomorrow confirmed this as they were extremely dismissive and questioned why we had the preventative damage started (we spoke to AXA who confirmed that we should go ahead and it would be covered). When we said that the company we used were coming tomorrow as they wanted to do their own checks, we were told to not let them be in the house while they were there as they needed the rooms vacated - they also did not want to see the other companies photos or documents of everything.

 

The issue we are worried about is we need pretty much all the bottom floor redone and the kitchen looked into - the water came from under the sink in a cabinet where the water may have ruined underneath or the cabinet itself (we are unable to get the kickboard off as it's stuck in). 

 

We are extremely worried about this visit tomorrow - are we within our rights to look at our own loss adjuster and what would be the process of this? We are just in a grey area and not really sure how to really proceed. 

 

We are based in Yorkshire, and the house was purchased newly built (it's less than 4 years old)

 

Would anyone who has experience be able to give us some advice that we can look into and keep in mind - I will update this tomorrow once the visit has concluded.

 

Thanks in advance!

[BankFodder]

Please monitor this thread for a full reply later or probably tomorrow.

However, you certainly shouldn't accept the first offer that the insurers make. Yes you are fully within your rights to obtain your own independent reports as a basis for challenging anything that the insurer says.

No need to apologise for living in Yorkshire. It's quite a nice place.

It would be a good idea to have a telephone recorder going during the visit. No need to disclose this.

Also, in respect of telephone conversations, read our customer services guide

[unclebulgaria67]

Remember, however BVS behave, it is your Insurers AXA who are responsible for ensuring that your claim is dealt with properly and your house restored to pre-burst pipe condition.

 

As Bankfodder says, you can have your own assessors to provide information for your purposes, but these do not replace BVS.  AXA appointed BVS and under your Insurance contract, you must allow BVS to conduct their loss adjusting services.  If you are not happy with the way BVS deal with your claim, than you need to register a complaint with AXA claims department.

 

Remember that BVS and Insurance company staff dealing with claims, will be handling large volumes of burst pipe claims as well as other claims.  Therefore sometimes the way they communicate can be partly driven by the level of stress they are trying to cope with.  Insurance companies and loss adjusting companies tend to place work volumes on their staff that lead to problems.  So please be friendly and courteous to those who will be wanting to help you, but are under high levels of pressure.  

[EndlessSummer]

Thank you both, I will keep that in mind for tomorrow

As soon as I get more information I will update on the post. I think I'm just worried as it's our first house. 

Thanks again for your time

[EndlessSummer]

Hello

 

So just thought I would post an update to help us a bit further. BVS have been and gone and we really are just astounded by the process with them. We also had another company in at the same time who were looking under the floors to help dry out and they were asked to stay of our BVSs way. 

 

So the other company has looked and under the floor is soaked - 4 inches of polystyrene and the membrane have water which they are recommending that it would all need to be replaced throughout. They are saying we may have to move out as the work can be intensive but they will give their inspection tomorrow to give us a full scope. 

 

BVS however have expressed that the underfloor is wet "due to the concrete being cold and the floor lifting has caused condensation" (through 4 inches of polystyrene) and only a few chip boards will need replacing. The overall quote they have given us is less than £2000 for the new floors (minus the carpet as that counts under contents apparently) sideboards and repainting. Honestly we just amazed as they didn't even really look at the kitchen or bathroom and we feel that it's really bad. When we asked questions about drying or work, we got "I've done this for x years and drying companies like X just like to find extra damage to charge". 

 

We haven't accepted the offer and are looking at other quotes now - who would be best to contact? Builders, Loss Adjusters, Surveyors? 

 

Would we also have to pay out of pocket for these also? BVS said they will accept them if we give a full breakdown but we are just worried that we will be out of pocket in the end. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

[honeybee13]

Just a quick point, UB is the expert of course. Given what BVS said about carpets being part of the contents, do you have separate buildings and contents policies or are they both with the same company?

 

HB

[EndlessSummer]

They are both with the same company.

I believe they are under the same policy from what my partner said but I will double check. 

[BankFodder]

Write to the insurer immediately and formally reject the offer on the basis that you consider that it is inadequate. Propose to them that they might like to appoint some completely unrelated loss adjuster to visit again and carry out an additional inspection.

Put them on notice that you are going to commission your own inspections and if eventually it transpires that there is a discrepancy, you will be coming to them not only for the full cost of repairs but also any ancillary costs incurred in respect of inspections et cetera.

You need to do that straightaway.

Then you need to get some inspections carried out.
You may as well start quickly with a couple of competent building companies to come along and have a look. But you are going to need written reports or quotations for the work.
When you get an idea of how different the prices are, then you can consider employing a proper surveyor for a full structural report. That will cost you money but at least by that time you will know whether or not it is worth the candle.

You are going to do anything without proper independent reports and quotations.

You need to put in hand straightaway.

Keep detailed list of what you are doing and of any expenses.

If there are any emergency measures to be taken then you should make sure that you get proper quotations for that work and inform your insurer in writing in advance of putting the work in hand.

 

[EndlessSummer]

looking at BVS,

they have said that any quotations for other companies would need to be passed through them to be looked into.

They are expecting the report from the drying company to be sent to them tomorrow. AXA are just expressing that we should work with BVS first and then they can look into it further.

We already expressed to BVS that we were not proceeding until we looked into other companies first but again they want it all passed to them before proceeding - does this sound right?

The only emergency measure that we have had to deal with was the initial leak (which AXA said we needed to pay for the plumber which we did as we weren't going to argue on Christmas Day) and the drying company as the floors and carpets were drenched. 

We have kept photos, emails and today had a phone recording the conversations my partner has with them to ensure we had some references. 

I'll look into companies in my local area to come have a look and provide estimates - hopefully they maybe able to help us more. 

This is the document they provided us with - they said that this is their standard practice. 

 

their standard practice.pdf

[BankFodder]

Well of course they are going to want to see what quotations you get because it is they who are going to be paying the money.

This is consistent with everything I've said above, that you to start getting your own inspections and quotations. Get a couple of ordinary builders quotations 1st to see whether you are wrong or you are right about what has happened and the cost of repairs.
If you then become confident that you are right then start getting more authoritative inspections – at least one with a written report.

Don't expect the insurer to be your friend. If you do then get yourself some personal help quickly

[unclebulgaria67]

Agree that it is up to @EndlessSummerto provide quotations and reports to BVS to confirm the detailed work/costs that are required to put the property back into the condition it was before the burst pipe.

 

BVS of course are expected by AXA to ensure the value of the claim is kept as low as possible. But sometimes, where water damage is hidden, the true extent of what work needs to be completed in not known.   BVS have their view on what is required and now it is critical that @EndlessSummerfully documents what work their own contractors believe is necessary.  BVS are correct that some companies see claim events as opportunity to make money from unnecessary work and if this were to happen, then BVS/AXA might not pay excessive amounts.

 

Buildings Insurance will include anything that is fitted, so including damage to kitchen. Contents includes loose fitted items like carpets. So there will be two claims at the same time. 

 

AXA/BVS are correct that the pipe that burst e.g. plumbing work would be at the policyholders expense. The cost of putting right the water damage would be down to BVS/AXA to pay. 

 

AXA have delegated the claim to BVS, but at any point if you are not happy, you can raise complaint with AXA.

[EndlessSummer]

So following the information you guys provided we are still struggling. I've called several builders around my area however express that they do not provide insurance quotes for repair. 

 

I've tried 8-10 different companies but no luck at all. 

 

What else can I do? 

 

[BankFodder]

Sorry, we should have warned you that this would happen .

 

I'm afraid that you need to get them round on the basis that you are looking for a quote for a job .

Don't mention insurance and don't mention the dispute.

 

 

[EndlessSummer]

No problems, I will ask my partner to call them and discuss it with them. 

Can I ask if they do provide quotes and BVS calls them are we liable for any problems? 

[BankFodder]

No. Strange question. Why should you be?

[EndlessSummer]

Well. One my partner just spoke to basically said that if the quote is used for insurance and they haven't been made aware it would be "extremely problematic" as they don't do them. 

So we just ended the call. 

[BankFodder]

They are talking completely nonsense .

There any quotes you can but you need in writing to identify the problem and the proposed remedial measures

 

Obviously your partner referred to the insurance And we have already said that you should not do this

[EndlessSummer]

He never mentioned it was for insurance. Just the general conversation was about people having to have quotes for insurance but we never specifically specified we were. We just asked for work quotes. 

 

[EndlessSummer]

 

Hey all, 

So this is a follow on from the nightmare with BVS and AXA. Here are the updates 

BVS decided to finally allocate someone to start the tear out of our property on the 20th May 2023. This was after much fighting and back and forth u TIL they finally agreed. 

On the 20th May we also had to leave our home for the work to start and move into temporary accommodation. Note, they only paid for one month of this with no update on how long it would take to complete. 

The tear out was done in parts and the house has been left to dry until the 23rd June where it will be reassessed to see the cost of repair. 

Now, here are some fun parts. 

AXA only just paid for the call out on Christmas day for the out of hours drying. It took them this long as they believed to be out of pocket for ourselves, despite telephone calls and emails confirming that the work should proceed. We had to paid for it at just shy of 5K and lost out on our wedding for this expense.

As of today we received the message that the assessor will come back but that we may need to outsource the work ourselves for it to be completed quicker. They have expressed that they can get someone to start but it would take 6-8 weeks before they will enter to start work on the property. 

We have also been told as the drying work is done, BVS no longer will be covering temporary accommodation and that after the 7TH July we will need to sort that ourselves. Speaking with AXA, they are looking into this but in under two weeks out temporary accommodation runs out and we have no back up. 

We have been to the FOS but due to AXAs meddling, they won't look at the complaint for 8 weeks as AXA expresses that the date we gave was incorrect and that the complaint was ongoing - I have a telephone recording from them telling us to go to FOS. 

 

What is our stand point and where do we go from here? 

My partner wants to look into legal proceedings as this has caused a lot of financial issue and emotional - during this time I was injured and broke a tooth on the floor due to its unevenness and our dog had a seizure due to the stress. 

Is there anything that we can do? 

 

Help is appreciated! 

[unclebulgaria67]

The Home Insurance policy schedule, should confirm how much they will cover alternative accommodation costs for.

If you go down the legal route, the FOS won't touch any complaint.  And I am not sure issuing Court claims is going to speed up the claim works.  It might be worth contacting newspaper consumer rights journalists, as I suspect this will  encourage Axa  to become much more energetic in dealing with your claim, if they look like they will get bad publicity, causing them loss of business.

Daily Mail/This is Money.co.uk have a financial page, where they will take a look at interesting consumer problems, to see if they can resolve.

helen.crane@thisismoney.co.uk

You could get your own Independent loss assessor involved.  It may be worth finding local assessors and having a conversation about the current situation.

Home - The Institute of Public Loss Assessors

LOSSASSESSORS.ORG

---

A Loss Assessor represents policyholders when they need to submit an insurance claim, and our members have experience in dealing with all types of claim.

And speak to Axa about the date your complaint was registered on their system.

Tel no. 0300 024 1277  Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm

 

Or email  

HouseholdComplaints.INS@axa.co.uk 

 

 

 

 

[EndlessSummer]

11 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

The Home Insurance policy schedule, should confirm how much they will cover alternative accommodation costs for.

If you go down the legal route, the FOS won't touch any complaint.  And I am not sure issuing Court claims is going to speed up the claim works.  It might be worth contacting newspaper consumer rights journalists, as I suspect this will  encourage Axa  to become much more energetic in dealing with your claim, if they look like they will get bad publicity, causing them loss of business.

Daily Mail/This is Money.co.uk have a financial page, where they will take a look at interesting consumer problems, to see if they can resolve.

helen.crane@thisismoney.co.uk

You could get your own Independent loss assessor involved.  It may be worth finding local assessors and having a conversation about the current situation.

Home - The Institute of Public Loss Assessors

LOSSASSESSORS.ORG

---

A Loss Assessor represents policyholders when they need to submit an insurance claim, and our members have experience in dealing with all types of claim.

And speak to Axa about the date your complaint was registered on their system.

Tel no. 0300 024 1277  Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm

 

Or email  

HouseholdComplaints.INS@axa.co.uk 

 

 

 

 

Hey, thank you for your insight - I will look into speaking with columnists - we did consider it but thought it might slow the claim then speed it up. 

We have had a message after I posted this that AXA have forwarded it to their senior team so if we don't hear anything positive back then we will proceed with contacting news etc

Thanks!