HSBC CC Claimform

[FANTASY CHARGES]

HSBC - Review - The World's Worst Employer? (HFC Beneficial Finance)

[PriorityOne]

Just subscribing....

 

I have just been told something similar by A & L. I had paid their in-house DCA a reduced monthly payment for 4 years. Just before Xmas, they informed me that they were going for a property charge. I sent a CCA to the in-house DCA and SAR to A & L. I then sent a CCA to A & L plc because the original creditor was A & L Personal Finance, but it was A & L plc who were threatening court action.

 

To cut a very long story short, everyone defaulted on the CCA, so I will now pay them nothing !! They have just informed me that they do not retain this doc. for more than 6 years.

 

Moral of the story : Do not try and bully your customers into finding huge sums of money before Xmas, ignore their previous commitments to make regular payments over a period of several years.... and then threaten them with a property charge, or they may just discover that you cannot actually enforce the debt in court and you will end up with nothing !

 

What a shame.... ... there was several thousand still outstanding

[zubo]

P1

 

Good for you... me too, my DCA started hassling me... bad move... what was a nice small earner is £6k written off... tough!

[m55dlc]

What ever happened to HSBC and the not keeping agreement for more than SIX YEARS?

 

ANy chance of an update?

[ladybird17]

thanks m55 - I've just ploughed through this thread....and thought the same as you!

[The Lantana]

Well I've had what First Direct call an 'agreement'. It's illegible. Even if they can make it legible by trying again it is, IMHO, very unlikely to reveal the key prescribed terms - and I haven't signed it.

 

First Direct used a form that was white lettering on a black background (to keep consistent with brand image!) so it's going to be very difficult for them.

 

They had sent my account to Moorcroft who I quickly saw off. They now tell me they're sending the account to Metropolitan who are, as I understand it, in-house to HSBC.

 

But like you m55 and LB, I'm still dying to know what happened with the case under discussion on this thread too.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[sequenci]

They now tell me they're sending the account to Metropolitan who are, as I understand it, in-house to HSBC.

correct!

 

very interesting, as we have two agreements that are FD, i think we will endeavour to issue a CCA.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Well I've had what First Direct call an 'agreement'. It's illegible. Even if they can make it legible by trying again it is, IMHO, very unlikely to reveal the key prescribed terms - and I haven't signed it.

 

First Direct used a form that was white lettering on a black background (to keep consistent with brand image!) so it's going to be very difficult for them.

 

They had sent my account to Moorcroft who I quickly saw off. They now tell me they're sending the account to Metropolitan who are, as I understand it, in-house to HSBC.

 

But like you m55 and LB, I'm still dying to know what happened with the case under discussion on this thread too.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

lant

 

i was reading some act of parliament today Criminal Justice Bill (from say 1998) something to do with music not being allowed to be played on a demonstation march or something and seriously it was suggested that on any demo the demonstrators have a solicitor with musical knowledge

music was defined as a repetitive series of notes or something similar ....

so they would play non repetitive notes !!!!

 

---- the point i am trying to make is what is the definition of writing --- text -- or whatever ???

 

-- traditionally it is on on a white background but never what i call "inverse writing" (black on a white background) so it could be argued there is no writing there ????

 

move your cursor below between the dollar signs then copy the text you can't see!

$ is this writing ????? $

 

reCriminal Justice Bill

When the legislation was still under debate, the Advance Party coordinated a campaign of resistance against what was then the Criminal Justice Bill. The group was composed of an alliance of sound systems and civil liberties groups.Two demonstrations were organised in London on July 24 and October 9 1994. The latter took the form of a march which ended up as a party at Hyde Park and turned into a riot

 

In response to the introduction of the Act, the electronic music group Autechre released the Anti EP, which satirised the Act's definition of music by including a track which was advertised as containing no repetitive beats, making it suitable for playing at raves. The fifth mix on the Internal version of Orbital's Are We Here? EP was titled "Criminal Justice Bill?"; it consisted of about four minutes of silence.

 

 

 

In response to the proposed bill, UK electronica band Autechre released the three-track "Anti EP" on Warp Records, stating:

“Warning. 'Lost' and 'Djarum' contain repetitive beats. We advise you not to play these tracks if the Criminal Justice Bill becomes law. 'Flutter' has been programmed in such a way that no bars contain identical beats and can therefore be played under the proposed new law. However, we advise DJs to have a lawyer and a musicologist present at all times to confirm the non repetitive nature of the music in the event of police harrassment.

[m55dlc]

lant

 

i was reading some act of parliament today (from say 1998) something to do with music not being allowed to be played on a demonstation march or something and seriously it was suggested that on any demo the demonstrators have a solicitor with musical knowledge

music was defined as a repetitive series of notes or something similar ....

so they would play non repetitive notes !!!!

 

---- the point i am trying to make is what is the definition of writing --- text -- or whatever ???

 

-- traditionally it is on on a white background but never what i call "inverse writing" (black on a white background) so it could be argued there is no writing there ????

 

move your cursor below between the dollar signs then copy the text you can't see!

$ is this writing ????? $

 

Fantasy, canI have some of what you're smoking, cos thats the best stoned quote I've heard in years!

[The Lantana]

Yes, I think if they're claiming 'invisible ink' agreements FC they've no hope.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[FANTASY CHARGES]

dear m55dlc vbmenu_register("postmenu_706039", true); "another pointless post " YOU MADE

see above ---provenance added to earlier post.

you have to learn what "OTHERS TELL YOU IS THE TRUTH"

REMEMBER WE ARE NOT ON HERE FOR TOTAL PERSONAL GAIN

[Isiris]

I meant to post on here but never got round to it. I do appologies.

 

When the court ruled against me regarding the CCA request, i then provided my court bundle.

 

In the court bundle was the normal stuff but there was also about 15 pages regarding CCA. I sent this to the solicitors 3 weeks before not the 2 when it would have been due.

 

After 6 days I received a cheque for the full value of the charges plus contractual compounded interest and a Notice of Discontinuance to sign.

 

I would point out that this was NOT DG Solicitors who normally represent HSBC on a claim but Geoffery Parker Bourne who were representing them as they initially claimed from me.

[m55dlc]

dear m55dlc vbmenu_register("postmenu_706039", true); "another pointless post " YOU MADE

see above ---provenance added to earlier post.

you have to learn what "OTHERS TELL YOU IS THE TRUTH"

REMEMBER WE ARE NOT ON HERE FOR TOTAL PERSONAL GAIN

 

Read again what I quoted and come back to me with why you think what I posted was pointless. You can add all of the provenance you want to attempt to change your post, but it remains in the realms of 'fantasy'. Have you ever heard of a blackboard? Early computers with white writing on black screens? As I said before, what had you been smoking?

[wobbles1914]

I meant to post on here but never got round to it. I do appologies.

 

When the court ruled against me regarding the CCA request, i then provided my court bundle.

 

In the court bundle was the normal stuff but there was also about 15 pages regarding CCA. I sent this to the solicitors 3 weeks before not the 2 when it would have been due.

 

After 6 days I received a cheque for the full value of the charges plus contractual compounded interest and a Notice of Discontinuance to sign.

 

I would point out that this was NOT DG Solicitors who normally represent HSBC on a claim but Geoffery Parker Bourne who were representing them as they initially claimed from me.

 

Hi Isiris, thanks for the update!

 

It seems that your post has been taken over and gone of on a tangent...

 

But getting back to the original theme...

 

1. Are you saying that the court rejected your argument that the CCJ claim could not proceed without a CCA from HSBC? The judge was going to allow the case to proceed?

 

2. Was a counter claim for charges the only way you managed to stop this?

 

Sorry for questions - just trying to fill in the gaps

 

Cheers

 

Wobbles

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

If a judge granted an order despite being told at the time that no signed agreement existed then they erred in law.

 

If however the party claiming so was not present in court on the day to argue the point then the judge cannot be blaimed for his decision.

 

Please remember he's not there to act for one side or the other & it is very very important that the members on this site are fully aware that your best chance of winning is by being in court ready to put your case & answer any questions the DJ may have

[Movingon]

As far as I can see he only ruled not to strike out their claim on the basis that you were not present. However it is entirely possible that HSBC would have "found" the agreement in time for the court hearing having been told they had to actually attend a hearing...

 

Don't forget - the lack of an agreement is a complete defence - however it is NOT a reason to strike out a claim. It simply means that when you get to court, and they have no agreement to which they can refer, the Judge will automatically find in your favour.

 

Reasons to strike out would include such things as a case with no merit, incorrect POC which has not been rememdied despite an Order... procedural stuff like that. Having a complete defence merely means that you're going to win on court day...

 

Hope this helps.

[Isiris]

Firstly, they could not find it as they admited they had destroyed it

 

When I was issued with the N1, I counterclaimed for all my charges on my bank account.

 

AFTER I had counterclaimed, I did the CCA request. They admitted that they had destroyed it.

 

I received a date for the hearing, I was on holiday but submitted my legal arguements that the Judge said he acknowledged but dismissed. Their arguement was while no contract was available, me maintaining payments proved an agreement was in place.

 

HSBC, just before they were due to submitt their court bundle and after digesting mine for a week, Paid ALL my counter claim and cancelled their initial claim.

[wobbles1914]

Isiris,

 

Thanks alot for the summary which answers my questions.

 

I'm puzzled by the judge's reasoning on your payments being a substitute for a true, original credit agreement, but I am sure that he knows much more about this than me.

 

Great strategy and well done on the result!

 

Cheers

 

Wobbles

[Movingon]

Yes - I understand that they said they had destroyed it... but I get the feeling they may have turned up to court on the day looking sheepish (good acting, see) and said "We actually hadn't - here it is...". I really believe that they would stoop so low as to try ANYTHING to get you to stop claiming.

 

The BANKS argument was that you were making payments which proved an agreement was in place; however I doubt that that argument swayed the Judge one bit; making payments simply proves that you were making payments - nothing else. I think he dismissed your argument because you weren't there for him to ask about it.

 

Of course this is just my opinion and I'm not judging you for not being there; you can't be expected to cancel expensive holidays to attend a court hearing and I don't think he would have expected that either. However he would NEVER have struck out a claim or defence simply because the agreement didn't exist - you would simply have won on the day of the full hearing. HSBC paid up because they (as usual) knew that they couldn't win.

[Glenn UK]

Even if he did take the payments as evidence to show and agreement was in place, unless the argument was set out to include the payments were made under a mistake then the Court would not have been able to consider this as an explanation.

 

All in all there is every reason to attend court for hearings of all type IMHO to make sure your claim can be explained as fully as possible and the court can see you are serious about your claim.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Isiris]

Yes - I understand that they said they had destroyed it... but I get the feeling they may have turned up to court on the day looking sheepish (good acting, see) and said "We actually hadn't - here it is...". I really believe that they would stoop so low as to try ANYTHING to get you to stop claiming.

 

The BANKS argument was that you were making payments which proved an agreement was in place; however I doubt that that argument swayed the Judge one bit; making payments simply proves that you were making payments - nothing else. I think he dismissed your argument because you weren't there for him to ask about it.

 

Of course this is just my opinion and I'm not judging you for not being there; you can't be expected to cancel expensive holidays to attend a court hearing and I don't think he would have expected that either. However he would NEVER have struck out a claim or defence simply because the agreement didn't exist - you would simply have won on the day of the full hearing. HSBC paid up because they (as usual) knew that they couldn't win.

 

 

Stone, they said they had destroyed it in a witness statement to the court. Dont think they are that stupid

 

Plus not being funny, it was a 7,000 holiday to Disney Land for 3 weeks. I phoned the court and they said to put all the information in a witness statement before a judge. I did ask for a postponement.

[Movingon]

Like I said - I am not judging you. I meant it.

[Isiris]

Actually Stone, that didnt come out as it should The 7k holiday was aimed at Glen and again not in a bad way. Just to say there was nothing I could do except cancel a 7k holiday for a 400 civil hearing

[Pen]

Hi sorry to highjack this thread a little as i am interested in the HFC agreement part. HFC sold on my debt but i have sent a CCA request and they do not have it apparently they gave it to the company they sold on the debt too. I am in proceedings with HFC for the return of my data info what can i do about the CCA or is it irrelevant now that they have sold on the debt. I am sorry and i hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread but i am interested in the rules relating to CCAs and selling on debts, it was just over 6yrs by the way. but the amount i owed befor they sold on my debt was less then they owed me in chargers now i am facing a hugh debt because of them