@Currys withholding my money whilst they investigate faulty online product return supposedly "lost in transit"***Resolved PayPal***

[FightThePower]

Hi Team,

 

I would very much appreciate your help and guidance with a recent issue I have encountered with Currys PC World.

 

It's worth me noting that this is the first ever bout of shock and anguish that I've experienced with any retailer, and as such, it's fair to say that I was/am naive and did not really believe that such a huge company would treat me this poorly, to the point where I am genuinely questioning whether it is corrupt at its core.

 

I purchased a monitor on 07/02/2022 from Currys online (worth noting that this is an "online only" product which I believe Currys buy from a third party and deliver directly to me, with Currys acting as the "middle man").

 

At point of order, their website at checkout stated I would receive the item next day if ordered before 12pm. I made it just in time and paid the 'express delivery' charge, but, the Currys order confirmation email stated an expected delivery date of 09/02/2022. The monitor arrives on 09/02/2022 (a day late as far as I'm concerned, as their website promised next day before I placed the order).

 

After it is delivered I notice damage to the side of the box, a tear, about 20cm long. There was also minor damage to the polystyrene inside of the box consistent with the position of the damage to the outside of the box. It seemed most likely to me that something had been dropped on it during transit, but unfortunately I only noticed once the item had been delivered.

 

I proceed to take a few photos (nothing too comprehensive as I never imagined I would be fighting this hard for a refund). I always thought it was commonplace for a retailer to refund you or issue a replacement the moment the faulty goods are collected. Clearly not with Currys. The monitor did not appear to have any physical damage, as the side of the box that was damaged was not the screen side.

 

10/02/2022 I proceed to set the monitor up, and notice a large shadow/discolouration down one of the side of the screen when it's switched on. I call Currys Technical Department, mention the packaging damage, confirm the product to be faulty, and am transferred to the Online Team to arrange a collection. The collection is subsequently arranged by Currys through DPD for 14/02/2022. Though, I had to call back on the 11/02/2022 because the first person I spoke to did not arrange the collection properly.

 

That same day (11/02/2022) I log a complaint via Resolver tool over the situation with the delivery, damage to the packaging, webchat experience, etc, and all I really wanted at that point was a replacement to be sent out to me right away. If anyone is interested, an active e-mail address to log a complaint with Currys is: SCCCustomerSolutionsTeam@currys.co.uk.

 

DPD arrive as expected on 14/02/2022, collect the parcel, providing their own label/sticker which I assume is generated through their affiliation with Currys. He took photo evidence which clearly shows the product has been collected, which I have saved a copy of.

 

16/02/2022 the item was delivered successfully (according to DPD tracking). However, after multiple e-mails back and forth with Currys they have now advised me (on 24/02/2022) that the item is "lost in transit" and are withholding my money while an investigation is completed. I am told this can take up to 14 days. I am suspecting that the item was returned to whichever supplier they used, as opposed to Currys own warehouse/premises. Though this is purely speculation as I did not have sight of the delivery address, this was organised through DPD who labelled the return package at my door.

 

Through frustration, I went militant on Twitter and in my complaint citing The Consumer Rights Act 2015, and insisted that my contract remains with Currys PC World as the retailer. It is their responsibility to resolve my complaint in line with the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This also applies to any dispute Currys may have with the courier. Any third party supplier Currys have used is completely irrelevant to my refund, as again, my contract is with Currys. I have also made it very clear that I am now rejecting any notion of a repair/replacement and would like to exercise my right to a full refund for faulty goods returned within 30 days. In fact, the goods were returned well within 14 days.

 

I paid on a credit card, though sadly (as this a whole new world to me) it was through PayPal. So although the transaction is for the full amount of the Currys order on my bank statement, it says PayPal and not Currys (I used the credit card as a payment method through PayPal, no PayPal balance was used). I am not sure if I can use my bank to raise a "chargeback" in this instance?

 

Out of anger and frustration, I raised a PayPal dispute (24/02/2022) and submitted all evidence to them that I have (damage to box, product fault, collection pictures, return delivery confirmation, and complaint case file containing all e-mail correspondence). I think that covers everything!

 

Any advice you have for me would be greatly appreciated and I apologise if any "consumer rights" I have cited are non-factual.

 

If I get my crystal ball out and put myself in the shoes of a crook, does it really seem that farfetched that they will miraculously "find" the parcel, potentially create damage to the packaging and/or product, and try to pin that on me? I am seriously wondering what lengths they will go to as the customer service I have received from them really should be criminal.

 

Do they have the right to withhold my money whilst they "investigate"? Or is this a grey area within consumer law?

 

If PayPal fail me, can I claim through my bank against PayPal, as they are showing on my statement? If so, how long do I have to put this in motion?

 

Is there anything else I should be doing, or perhaps I have done too much too soon?

 

Thank you for your time and I hope you have a great weekend.

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

simply raise a section 75 claim with your credit card company they are equally responsible.

as its a recent transaction, since the changes to paypal, it should be a done job.

 

as you've already spotted, it matters not if its faulty or not, within 14 days you can demand a refund regardless to the item being faulty or not.

curry's should not be withholding your money, where the item actually IS, is not your problem as such, but i can see this ending in a court claim.

 

you are entitled to contact DPD as its your data and ask the delivery address too but you can also register with dpd and you should see that information too using the tracking number.

 

dx

 

 

 

 

[FightThePower]

Hi dx,

 

Cheers for coming back to me so quickly.

 

Good shout on DPD, I will dig deeper and see if I can locate this elusive delivery address.

 

Could Currys "find" the returned item after the 30 days has elapsed and then claim that I am only entitled to a replacement, as they hadn't "received it" within that time? Or do consumer rights stipulate that I would only have to return the item within this time and it doesn't actually have to "arrive" as such, as they've indirectly taken possession of the item through their chosen courier?

 

With regards Section 75, I've found contradicting information online when it comes to the use of PayPal and a credit card. In your experience, would I definitely be protected? My credit card is not with PayPal but was used as a payment option through PayPal (no PayPal wallet balance was used, as I read online that the wallet can be an eligibility factor).

 

If I am eligible to make a Section 75 claim, does it matter that I've already filed a PayPal dispute? Last thing I'd want to do is then have PayPal come after my bank and/or me (novice question). I'm not sure where the reimbursed money comes from, whether it's the bank itself, PayPal as the go-between, or Currys themselves?

 

Priority No.1 is getting my money back, but that being said, I want to do everything within my power to make sure Currys don't get to keep any of my money either (if I'm reimbursed by others for example).

 

Speculation again, but maybe that's why Currys employ such tactics: if my credit card provider were just to reimburse me and then write-off the money by not claiming it back from Currys/PayPal for example, they would keep the money that I originally paid.

 

Thanks again for all of your help.

[dx100uk]

As long as you informed with proof within 14 days you wanted to return the item, cra dictates it must happen, even without any reason. 

 

The old distance selling rules like SOGA  were rolled into cra 2015. As an online purchase removes your chance to inspect any item in person like at a shop, 14 days apply.

 

You additionally are covered by the short term right to return clause as it's faulty of 30 days 

 

The retailer has no say in either and must issue a full refund. Outside of 30 days they can choose refund/repair/replace.

 

As for section 75 and PayPal, 99% of what you will read will be old hat which did apply,

 

however, I believe, as with eBay, the PayPal payment portal is now totally transparent, the card provider will deal against the retailer and are equally responsible.

 

No harm in trying, can't hurt you .

 

Trouble is many banks as with chargeback are useless before all this change happened anyway and never did understand the rules in 1st place !!

 

Dx

[Manxman in exile]

Is the application of the law to the OP's situation necessarily as straightforward as you suggest though?

 

Yes, The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regs 2013 allows a consumer to cancel or to withdraw from a "distance sale" within 14 days of receipt of the goods, and if the consumer does so then the trader generally has to refund within 14 days, either of receiving the goods back or of receiving evidence from the consumer that the goods have been sent back  -  s34 of the regs.

 

But if the consumer wants to exercise this right, they must clearly tell the trader that they are in fact cancelling or withdrawing, and not just returning the goods for a refund because they are faulty or otherwise don't conform to contract  -  s32.

 

However, if the consumer is exercising their right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 - because the goods are unsatisfactory in some way - then the Act does say that the trader should refund without "undue delay", but it also qualifies that "undue delay" by also saying "and in any event within 14 days beginning with the day on which the trader agrees [my bold] that the consumer is entitled to a refund."  -  s20(15)

 

So without knowing whether the OP clearly told Currys that he was cancelling the contract as a distance sale rather than just returning the item for a refund because it was damaged (or whatever), it might just be possible that Currys are legitimately delaying payment of a refund until 14 days after they have agreed to make one?

 

Of course that wouldn't stop me badgering Currys to pay up now, and the OP shouldn't let it stop them either.  But the OP might want to bear in mind that it might not be as clear cut as it appears.  And if they try a s75 claim, their card provider might take the same point of view.

 

(And yes - the outcome is bonkers.  Blame the law makers... )

 

 

The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

These Regulations implement most provisions of Directive 2011/83/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 on...

 

Consumer Rights Act 2015

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

 

[FightThePower]

Thank you both,

 

This is very useful to know. In some ways, I'm glad this has happened to me because it is a learning experience I will be able to take with me and pass on to others.

 

On 24/02/2022 I did say to Currys "I would like it formally noted on the order that I am rejecting the product as faulty and exercising my right to a full refund. Returned well within 14 days, so I am entitled to "change my mind" about the idea or proposition of any exchange. This is also backed up by the fact that the product is faulty, and returned well within 30 days - again entitling me to a full refund. Both of these are as per Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013. Pease confirm once it has been formally noted on the account that I would like a full refund and not an exchange." 

 

I apologise if any of the above is non-factual, it was part of an angry rant.

 

Currys responded with: "As the item has not been confirmed as received, we would not be able to process a refund. The lost in transit investigation will allow the items location to be confirmed. The lost in transit investigation can take up to 14 working days and once this has finished a refund can be done as requested."

 

Did I cover myself well enough there or is there more I should have saying/say? I'm not entirely sure if the 14 day distance selling rule applies to goods you've opened and tried out? Regardless, it was returned and has supposedly arrived well within the 14 days.

 

At first, I wanted a replacement to be sent out without delay, but changed my mind out of principle. The first time I mentioned a refund was when I said "Yes please, if you could see what is happening for me that would be great, and yes, I think I would like it to be refunded please." This was on 21/02/2022. My issue is that I said "I think" which I'm not sure would be considered a direct instruction. Part of their response was "I have contacted the back-office team about your exchange/return..." And then proceeded to tell me the item was lost on transit. I noticed right away they had "forgotten" that I would like a refund.

 

Of course I will be reminding them of my rights daily and asking for updates on the "investigation".

 

It would be good to get your thoughts if you have time.

Edited February 26, 2022 by FightThePower

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, FightThePower said:

The lost in transit investigation can take up to 14 working days and once this has finished a refund can be done as requested

so regardless to it being lost they are going to refund anyway.., so why not now....

[FightThePower]

Good morning all,

 

Thank you very much for all of your help.

 

PayPal have awarded the dispute in my favour and have issued me a refund.

 

I hope this is now the end of it. 

 

Thanks again to you both.

[Manxman in exile]

Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

 

Just FYI, if we assume that you had* informed Currys that you were exercising your "change of mind"/cancellation rights under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Information) Regulatios 2013, then your next step would have been to provide evidence that you had returned the item to them and they would have to refund you within 14 days of providing that proof.

 

And when exercising a "change of mind" cancellation, you might be able to open the box and "try it out", but if you're trying it out exceeds  "...what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop"  then the retailer can reduce the refund to reflect any dimunition in value from you "trying it out".  (Section 34 (9) and (12) of the aforementioned Regulations.)

 

 

*And it reads like you probably did - but always best to make sure.  However, if you have tried it out and you are concerned that you may have "diminished its value", then it would be best to exercise the short term right to reject under the 2015 Act and be certain of getting a full refund

[FightThePower]

Cheers for this!

 

Again, very interesting to know and information which I would say is essential to everyone! They need to teach this in schools, seriously.

 

A month ago, I couldn't of told you (even on a basic level) what my rights are as a consumer. I foolishly trusted the "big players" to do the right thing when they are in the wrong, because I wrongly assumed that these regulations were tightly enforced.

 

In reality, the average consumer must not put up much of a fight and write off their hard-earned cash to the big corporations like Currys who turn a blind eye to these regulations as and when it suits them. This is the only conclusion I can draw, because if they weren't getting away with it or were being penalised for trying their luck, they may be less likely to do it in the first place.

 

I mean, look at the cost of this one complaint for them. This post has been viewed by approx. 400 people, my family and friends will likely never use Currys again, I've wasted hours of their customer reps time (and albeit my own time), I've pointed people on Twitter in the direction of their complaints department (a rare e-mail address that actually works), and I'm yet to write an absolute Snotogram of a review once I've finished dealing with their complaints department (who seem to have gone AWOL by the way when I confronted them about breaching the 14 day distance selling regs).

 

Surely all of the above will end up costing them more in the long run than just issuing me a replacement product straight away (which is what I wanted in the beginning). Especially as PayPal overturned the transaction in the end anyway. A real nonsensical approach to customer care and poor business acumen from Currys.

 

You guys are fantastic, so a big thank you again for your support. Thankfully my suspicious mind came in handy in the end.

 

If there's any way I can help out here as a hobbyist myself, please let me know. I'd love to learn more about the regs and help stick it to these corporations taking advantage of their customers, who like me, often don't know any better.

 

Thanks again to you all.

[BankFodder]

Currys won't care that you or your friends or relatives won't use them any more.

Currys aren't bothered that it costs them money simply to deal with you or another complainant.

Currys are only bothered that they have an easy life and that means that if you have learnt things here and if you have gained a level of confidence in dealing with these kinds of problems, then the worst thing you can do is to stop shopping with Currys.

The best thing you can do is to keep on shopping with Currys but to have zero tolerance.

Believe me, Currys PC World simply want customers who will accept mediocrity and who won't cause trouble.
That is their business model.

If you want to disrupt their business model then keep on shopping and don't stand for any nonsense

[dx100uk]

Much better to teach them that a DCA is not a bailiff with zero legal powers as I bet at least 90% of them are blindly paying a DCA on a debt they should not ever be being mugged over .  

 

Dx

[FightThePower]

Hmm, I didn't think about it like that. You make a very good point!

Edited December 11, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed