P2P Loan CCJ - claimant now has 3rd party order freezing my account - help

[HP Mum]

I haven't had anything yet...I'm just assuming I may.

 

One pays to defend ?

I don't have any £s to pay for court fees.

 

If the bank succeeds with making me B in the next few months - would a ccj be wiped out / struck from my records too?

[Andyorch]

You pay if you lose anyway so may as well try and incur some fixed costs trying///you may win and pay nothing.....but no defending you will pay anyway.

 

Yes if you were to include in your Bankruptcy.

[HP Mum]

The £s owed are large.  If claim is issued, then the claimant wiould pay a % of the sum to file the claim (£000s).

Would that also mean that I would have to pay just to acknowledge the claim?

 

[Andyorch]

No...you pay nothing to defend.....you simply incur costs if you lose.

[HP Mum]

So - perhaps if claim comes - it is better to just ignore? 

Just let them get a ccj as I have no defence, other than the bank took everything before i could repay, and that i haven no current means of repayment?  And then if the bank makes me B, it will be wiped out anyway?  And both off my file within 1 year - rather than the normal 6y a ccj sits on one's file?

[Andyorch]

Correct....

[HP Mum]

thanks Andy

 

[HP Mum]

I've been worrying about things today.  But this helps me.  If I can do nothing, I just need to push to one side and instead focus on how to move on with life....

[Andyorch]

There is the old adage ..." You cant get blood out of a stone "

[HP Mum]

Yes!!

Sad as that may be in my case.... 

[HP Mum]

A brief update on this:

A claim did arrive.  But the post was so bad during lockdown that the period in which to apply had already expired!!

Is there some way of checking on-line if a ccj has been entered against me?   

I haven't yet had any court notification of a ccj by default of no response to the claim.

 

As a reminder to this thread - I do owe but have no assets; no income so can't repay.    I had already mentally decided that if I got a Claim that I would not respond.   

If they have now got a ccj - by default of no reply - they obviously can't get a charging order - which is what they suggested they'd try - as the property was repo-ed.

Where does this leave them and me?

 

Just as a little aside - I did a statutory free check of my credit file, equifax.  It didn't let me see everything (ie couldn't see if there's a ccj) but it did show me that in the last year+ there have been 17 soft searches - "trace enquiry" or "beneficiary trace enquiry" from companies I have no idea about.   Is that possible?   I thought only companies I have given permission to could run a credit check/ search via the credit agencies ???

Edited July 20, 2020 by HP Mum

[HP Mum]

If someone only receives a Govt benefit - ie working tax credit - and barely has enough money to pay for food, utilities, public transport and general essentials

 

- what happens if their bank receives a 3rd party order to freeze the account because of an unpaid debt and a mistaken assumption that account holder has hidden funds/savings ? 

 

Does the bank allow the account holder access to the bank to pay for life essentials?  Or does the bank literally freeze the account so nothing can be bought, no bills paid for ?   

[stu007]

Hi

 

Are you asking this on behalf of someone and if so we would need more details?

 

When you say 3rd party order for an unpaid debt exactly what is the debt and by who?

[HP Mum]

Me

Borrowed a large sum from someone. 

Was unsecured. 

Couldn't repay.

they got a ccj.

Can't pay that either. 

 

they applied to my bank with an interim 3rd party court order to "freeze" account.  

 

 Assume they think I'm hiding a ton of £s - which I am not. 

 

 I have no savings and barely any £s per month. 

 

just am curious what will happen next?

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[stu007]

Hi

 

This is not my specific are so please wait for others to advise you on this

 

According to the below link  if they have applied for a 3rd Party Debt Order you should get Copies of an interim third party debt order, the application notice and any documents filed in support of it must be served on the third party (you are the third party), not less than 21 days before the date fixed for the court hearing. (others in the know will advise so please be patient)

 

PART 72 - THIRD PARTY DEBT ORDERS - Civil Procedure Rules

WWW.JUSTICE.GOV.UK

 

Please have a good read of the link above 

[unclebulgaria67]

Normally, if a Bank account only has incoming benefit money, which is to cover essential living costs, then the Bank should allow access to the benefit amounts.

 

You need to go back to the Court, make an application to look at your financial position to pay the debt and establish that the account frozen only contains benefit money for essential living costs.

 

 

[HP Mum]

Will the bank report back to the person/ lawyers with the details of the account? 

 

Will the bank provide that transparency ?  That regular outgoing of £s are only basic essentials.  And regular incoming of £s are very low - and during covid almost non-existent.  And no savings accounts either?

 

If bank provides that kind of transparency and it's obvious there's no £ to repay the debt - what happens next?

is it likely the person/ lawyers will then apply to court to check if there are any other bank accounts with different banks?

 

It seems bizarre that someone would take this action unless they assume there's £s hidden -which there isn't. 

What would a judge likely say/ do next when it's obvious there's no ability to repay the debt?

Could a judge suggest bankruptcy?  

 

I've had a read of the part 72 above.

I'm not sure if to cry or laugh? 

As I don't even have enough £s to pay for the Court fee. 

 

The person has been so misguided by lawyers to even take such action.  They think I have assets - I don't.  

[theberengersniper]

Understand that I'm nowhere near being competent to answer this, so take my comment with a pinch of salt until someone more experienced has answered, but reading a little more about your situation reveals this article:
 

Creditor takes money from your bank account

WWW.CITIZENSADVICE.ORG.UK

---

Information on third party debt orders to take money owed to you to pay creditors, how they affect your bank account and what to do if a frozen bank account leads to hardship.

 

Which appears to suggest, at the bottom, under the section "What happens if a 3rd Party Debt Order is Made Final", that the order can only affect money in your account when the order is made, and not money paid in later. So does that mean that when your next benefit amount is paid in, that isn't frozen, only what's in there now is?

Mods - that's obviously a link to a different site above, which you might choose to remove if it's not allowed or advisable. In fact, just remove the whole post if that's the case.

[HP Mum]

I read that on a different site too. 

I also read that bank knows about the order 7 days before account holder.   

 

I know about it and have still been able to continue using debit card to make small purchases via the account so it's not frozen - yet. 

 

Looking over my account balance - recent and the last year - it will be blatantly obvious to the bank that I can't live without the tiny funds in their bank. 

 

On any day recently that could have been the "fixed day" for freezing - we are talking about a few hundred £s and the bank can see that every month expenditures are only essentials. 

 

Surely the bank must allow direct debits for utilities, insurance, phone etc to still be paid?

Edited December 22, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[HP Mum]

It seems the bank has taken no action as the account has not been frozen.

 

Have continued to use it as normal - which is to pay direct debits and for daily essentials, as in food, phone, wi-fi access, transport.  I have no spare £s at all and actually currently no income either.

 

The debt owed is currently incapable of being repaid - irrespective of the person getting a ccj.

 

There is an alleged hearing in a few weeks time regarding the 3rd party debt order.   

 

I assume the bank has advised the claimant / their lawyers that there are no hidden funds that they can grab?   

 

The claimant got the ccj  as an attempt to make their unsecured debt a secured debt (second charge) on a known property asset. 

The claimant does not know that the property is part of a much larger/ wider (legal) dispute - which is too complicated to go into now as it has been going on for years.

 

I can not access any value attributed to the property until the other dispute is resolved.    But - as far as the claimant is concerned - in essence their old unsecured debt is now secured. 

 

They consider - most likely and probably - there is enough equity that they would be able to get reimbursed at some point...   

 

 I am confused as to why they tried to also freeze my bank account? 

 

Now I assume the bank has informed the claimant that there are no hidden funds,

 

is it most probable that a judge - at the imminent hearing - would advise them to sit and wait because their £s are secured against a property asset?

 

I can not do anything until the much larger dispute is resolved. 

 

 I have never communicated with the claimant or their lawyer - as their claim is so very secondary to the other dispute.  

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[dx100uk]

Why dont you open a parachute account and get all income paid there??

 

on a small screen so cant scroll back at present.

 

Dx

[HP Mum]

I have no income at present.   Unfortunately.

But I do have an alternative bank account to the one listed on the 3rd party debt order.

 

I would be surprised if the current bank that receives the small amount of government benefit would be allowed to take that and give it to the claimant?

[HP Mum]

So...

I had a small amount in my account. And that was removed by the courts last week. I was left with £0. Couldn't / can't even buy food. As in I'm hungry.  And now can't honour direct debits - for essential bills - due start of the month

 

However the bank also allowed money in a kids account to be taken.

The nature of a kids account is that the bank demands it is set up in both the parent's name and the kids name - but the funds are the kids.  In this case earned income by the kid. Furthermore the kid isn't a kid anymore but the account remained open with funds in it.   Can the 3rd party debt order cover money in a kids account?  Have proof the £s are kids

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by HP Mum

[unclebulgaria67]

You need to go back to the Court, as what has happened i.e taking money from benefits and kids accounts is not correct.  They need to leave you the benefits amount, so you have a minimum amount to cover basics.

 

Contact your local council authority tomorrow and ask for an urgent welfare grant for essentials.

[HP Mum]

Thank you.

I had recently removed 1k from a pension fund - the last amount of total tax-free allowance - into a separate bank.   

 

I can't survive off the monthly benefit so accessing the last allowable sum from the pension fund was the only way I could try stand on own feet to help pay for essentials for the next 3months. 

 

I had just transferred 500 into my normal bank before the court took the lot. This means all my direct debits - utilities, phone, internet, road tax, insurance etc - will bounce tomorrow.   

 

I read that a judge had allowed a creditor to take the tax-free pension sums from a debtor.   Will they be allowed to retain this 500?

 

Just trying to understand what will be a judge's next steps?

 

I did borrow a large sum from a personal contact which I haven't repaid.   They subsequently got a ccj secured against an asset - but only as a 2nd charge. 

 

There are on-going legal disputes with the 1st charge which is preventing any kind of financial resolution.  Been going on for years. 

 

Very complicated - the 1st charge did things they shouldn't have.  The 2nd charge may or may not know about the other legal disputes... But they do stand behind the 1st charge in the pecking order for £s.   (I'm not paying legal costs in those disputes).

 

In the meantime - I don't have any £s and no income.  I'm waiting for resolution too.

 

So what will a judge likely do next, given the sum owed is secured against an asset that - as far as 2nd charge creditor and judge could surmise - would potentially be capable of paying the debt....

 

Should I write a statement to judge simply saying the asset is subject to a wider dispute against a separate entity with a 1st charge and this 2nd charge creditor must wait?

Will the judge say the creditor has to wait?

Can judge switch the claim to bankruptcy? 

I don't see any benefit to that - but am obviously nervous.

 

 

.