Devere Windscreen PCN claimform - residential parking - Bournemouth

[Janus]

hi all

 

I received a PCN just before xmas, I forgot to display my parking permit where I live, just one flipping day

 

I wrote to the parking company and explained to them that it was just a moment of forgetfulness 

 

they have now taken this to small claims court

 

I have some questions

 

they  issued the court claim in wrong name (correct address, and reg)

 

plus the original fine and what they put on court claim is different amount

 

fine = 108

 

they put 116 on court claim form?

 

how do I stand from these incorrect details?

 

should I defend?

 

 

 

all advice welcome, thanks

[FTMDave]

Yes, you should definitely defend.  From a legal point of view these "residential parking" claims are the easiest to see off.  Not displaying the permit just one day when they should know you & the car is "de minimis".  You almost certainly have Supremacy of Contract too if the parking space comes with your accommodation.

 

BTW, it's not a fine, a private company can't fine you, it's an invoice.

 

How "wrong" is the name?

 

If they've made up extra charges then yes, that is more ammo against them.

 

Pity you appealed as you probably outed yourself as the driver and lost POFA protection, but you still have enough to easily see off the fleecers.

 

DId they send you a Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action before starting the court claim?

Edited January 11, 2021 by FTMDave

[dx100uk]

please complete this

Received a Court Claim From A Private parking Speculative invoice?? - How To Deal With It HERE***Updated Aug 2016*** - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

 

and scan up to one multipage PDF every letter/email you have bar the claimform in/out since day one 

read upload carefully

[Janus]

many thanks for replies 

 

I have started new job, so will try to find time to scan, upload, just a bit manic at mo

 

please can you explain POFA?

 

I did get letter before claim

 

I told them I live here and 99.9% of time remember to display parking permit (this is issued by management agency)

 

they have first and surname name wrong on claim form 

 

 

[dx100uk]

Doesn't matter what they have wrong for now

do the questionnaire please ....scans  can be later

[FTMDave]

1 hour ago, Janus said:

please can you explain POFA?

Yes.  The fleecers have got the keeper's details from the DVLA - but they don't know who the driver was.  Lots of people drive other people's cars.  My son often drives mine.  Therefore appealing is never a good idea given (a) the PPCs never, ever accept appeals and (b) invariably the motorist outs themselves as the driver.

 

The PPCs got parliament to pass Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 where liability can be passed from the driver to the keeper, but only if they respect certain timescales in which to send out their documentation and only if the documentation is phrased in a certain way, but the PPCs hardly ever bother with this as they're not interested in the law, they're interested in bullying and lying so as to get motorists to pay monies that aren't owed.

 

I didn't mention POFA to be critical or negative, more as a note to learn from the experience in the future, especially as lots of other motorists will read your thread.

 

You're still in an excellent position as explained in post 2 re "de minimis" and Supremacy of Contract, plus I bet the fleecers signage is rubbish and they'll have invented extra fees too.

 

When you get a minute, please post up what dx requested.

 

 

[Janus]

thanks for updated replies

 

I will try to upload requested data today

 

FTMDave, thanks too. 

 

the date of the court letter is 7th Jan, so I have until the 21st Jan to submit defense is that correct?

 

does this time period also account for how long one has to acknowledge the claim?

 

I will do this by end of this week anyhow, just want to clarify time scales

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

The forum sticky gives you a timetable of what to submit when.

 

 

HB

 

[Janus]

thanks honeybee

 

here is detail (I dont have time to scan today, new job on go as mentioned) :

 

 

Name of the Claimant : Devere Parking

 

Claimants Solicitors: none

 

Date of issue – 7th Jan 2021

 

Date for AOS - 25th Jan

 

Date to submit Defence - Wednesday, 3 February 2021

 

 

 

What is the claim for – This concerns the issue of a parking notice in the private car park at ***** (address), Bournemouth on the 29th Oct 2020 to a car **** (my reg)
that parked in breach of the T and Cs is that no parking permit was displayed as requird. Signs at the location state the T and cs and that failure to adhere will result in the issue of said pcn. That the driver in the first instance will be liable to accept and pat contractually

the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per year from 29/10/2020 to 6/1/2021 on £116 

(Particulars of Claim are in the box to the left of the N1 page 1)

 

 

 

What is the value of the claim? £108 on ticket, £116 on claim?

 

 

Amount Claimed £116

court fees £25

legal rep fees 

Total Amount £141

[dx100uk]

Can you make sure that poc is correct please re:pat contractually

And back in the location

[Janus]

On 12/01/2021 at 13:35, dx100uk said:

Can you make sure that poc is correct please re:pat contractually

And back in the location

hi dx, how do you mean? What have I missed?

 

I will process the defense of your guys advice and what I have seen in these forums, as you rightly state I live at the address for goodness sakes and they got the details wrong, they are notoriously incompetent bunch and well known for it in around our area

[dx100uk]

can you please put the location back in the poc or put it here and i'll insert it

 

also the line 

On 12/01/2021 at 13:20, Janus said:

That the driver in the first instance will be liable to accept and pat contractually

 

dosn't look right

please make sure bar you reg number that what you have typed out it exactly what it says.

as we put in the guide, these exact details and how it is written and worded is very important to your defence and later witness statement.

 

if you give us the info properly then its easy to defend and win this by the correct methods.

[brassnecked]

Also look at your Lease agreement for the property, especially around allocation and use of Parking spaces, this is often where the fleecer messes up, with stuff like Supremacy of Contract.

[Janus]

4 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Also look at your Lease agreement for the property, especially around allocation and use of Parking spaces, this is often where the fleecer messes up, with stuff like Supremacy of Contract.

thanks brass. I will look into that

I have now rechecked the detail on the claim form :

 

 

Name of the Claimant : Devere Parking

 

Claimants Solicitors: none
 

Date of issue – 7th Jan 2021
 

Date for AOS - 25th Jan
 

Date to submit Defence -  7 February 2021 (edit - dx)
 

What is the claim for –

 

1.This concerns the issue of a parking notice in the private car park at *****, Bournemouth on the 29th Oct 2020 to a car **** that parked in breach of the T and Cs is that no parking permit was displayed as required.

 

2.Signs at the location state the T and cs and that failure to adhere will result in the issue of said pcn. That the driver in the first instance will be liable to accept and pay contractually.

 

3.The pcn was affixed to car on date of event.
Letters have been sent seeking payment but no further response was received

 

4.the claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per year from 29/10/2020 to 6/1/2021 on £116 

 

What is the value of the claim? £108 on ticket, £116 on claim?

  

Amount Claimed £116

court fees £25

legal rep fees 

Total Amount £141

[dx100uk]

please note your corrected date for defence filing

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

[lookinforinfo]

In order to give you as much ammunition as possible could you please complete the following 

I see you got a windscreen ticket first so there may be problems with their timingsthat can help your case.

[Janus]

lookinforinfo

 

how do you mean, can you please explain more?

thanks dx, I will register first on MCOL

[brassnecked]

There are strict time limits applicable to various parts of the collection process, so they must wait for a certain time after a windscreen ticket before sending a Notice To keeper, a different time limit applies where it was a carpy ANPR capture, and they often mess up and confuse the two thereby potentially making any court case unviable..

[lookinforinfo]

Yes- the Protection of Freedoms Act allows parking companies to pursue the keeper if the driver does not pay the PCN.

 

however in order to do that the parking companies have to comply with the Act. If they don't they can only pursue the driver not the keeper and PoFA will not apply.

 

Also if their wording of their Notice to Keeper and Driver fail to comply with the Act, PoFA may not apply. So by answering the questionnaire more revelations may be discovered that could make your case stronger which may mean that they will not turn up in Court and/or may enable you to claim a breach of your GDPR

 

  thus turning the tables on them as you  are then able to claim money from them and more than they are claiming from you.

[dx100uk]

Get that cpr running today else itll be monday before you do it

[Janus]

On 15/01/2021 at 14:55, dx100uk said:

Get that cpr running today else itll be monday before you do it

dx, have completed the MCOl, aos service

 

I will get the cpr done tonight, and in post to claimant tomorrow

 

thanks

[dx100uk]

another 5 days lost...you only have 33 days from the date on the claimform to file your defence.

the info from that CPR could be important to what is filed as your defence which is why i said do it friday..

 

 

[Janus]

sorry dx, but I am up to my eyes in new job. I will work on cpr tonight. 

 

 

[brassnecked]

CPR  must be prioritised it cannot be delayed sorry but thats the situation.