m62 smart motorway speeding fine

[billy bob66]

hello people and thank you in advance for any help you may give. so here is my problem.

 

on Monday the 10th of august i entered the M62 motorway at junction 20 Oldham Rochdale and was traveling westbound.

the overhead gantry sign was showing a speed limit of 50mph, i don't think i had hit this speed yet.

i then carried on driving at under 50 mph until the next sign came into view this was showing a speed of 30 mph

i took my foot of the accelerator reducing my speed to just below the limit.

 

now here is the real problem,

just over a week later i get a speeding fine letter on the door mat telling me i was doing an average speed of 41mph between the two signs, one showing 50 the other showing 30?

 

how on earth can this be right?

was i supposed to know the second speed limit before i can see it?

 

the worst part of all this is i do have a dashcam in my car but the whole thing has been written over or that date and there is no way of getting the footage back to prove the speeds on display.

 

is there a way i can get from central ticket office the times and speeds showing on them gantry's and should i appeal if i cant as its my word against theirs and i am the little man.

 

i just don't think its right that all the drivers on that stretch of motorway ( and let me tell you it was empty so no need for any restrictions at all but i only went one junction) should be getting fines and points from this money making road for doing nothing wrong at all.

 

again thanks in advance for any help given and please if anything like this has happened to you please let me and all other readers know what happened and what the outcome was.

 

billybob66

  

 

 

[Man in the middle]

First of all you haven’t got a speeding fine at this stage.

What you have is a “Notice of Intended Prosecution” (a “NIP”) and a notice under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act requiring you to provide the driver’s details.

 

Regardless of any issues you may have with the speeding allegation you must respond to the S172 notice within the 28 days allowed. Failure to do so sees you commit a separate offence which carries a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code (MS90) which will see your insurance premiums rocket.

 

Does the NIP say your speed was measured as an average between those two points?

I’ll try to find out what system is in place there.

 

As far as gaining evidence goes you are not entitled to any evidence at this stage.

If the allegation remains as it is you will receive the offer of a course for that speed (provided you have not done one for an offence that occurred in the last three years).

 

Failing that a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points) will be offered.

If you decline either of those you will face court action and it is only then that you are entitled to see the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you.

 

What you can do before you name yourself as driver is to ask for “photographs to help identify the driver”.

Do not ask for “evidence” as you are entitled to none at the moment and they may interpret your request as a refusal to accept any offers that may be made.

 

The photographs may help you determine how and where the speed was measured and also you may see photographs of the gantries displaying the limits. Note that such a request does not stop the 28 day clock you must reply by.

[Man in the middle]

OK, I've made some enquiries.

 

I understand that the cameras used on that stretch of the M62 are of the "HADEC3" type.

These are not average speed cameras (I would be surprised if an average speed system operated between just two gantries).

HADEC cameras operate by measuring your speed at a specific point (i.e. at the gantry) and not as an average over a distance.

 

If you ask for the photos as I suggested you should get a photo of your vehicle and another of the gantry display taken at the same time so that you can confirm the speed limit displayed. There may also be some figures superimposed on the photo showing your recorded speed.

 

If my information about the camera type is correct it means you could not have slowed sufficiently in time for the "30" limit.

But have a look on the NIP and let us know what it says.

[billy bob66]

hi man in the middle,

 

thanks for your replies regarding this matter, just had a look at the pictures online and it says i was doing 41 in the 30 and it shows a picture of the gantry sign showing 30.

i am sure i had slowed down to just under 30 but this i cannot prove so it looks like i will be getting slapped wrists.

not even the my ford app shows the speed but shows i did brake harshly when i joined the motorway and seen the first 50mph sign.

the thing that pees me off the most is that the motorway was empty even after the next junction from where i left and looked down the carriageway. 

so even though i know i was not speeding it now tells me to stay off the smart money making machine and clog the streets up at night.

 

thanks again billybob

 

 

[Man in the middle]

The HADEC3 cameras (and the associated measuring equipment) are particularly accurate and it would be very unusual if your measurement was wrong.

 

The consolation is that you should be offered a course for that offence. Cost will be about £90 but no points. Hope I've been able to help.

 

MitM