Parking Eye ANPR PCN - overstay 1hrs free - Starbucks, Windle Island, St Helens **CANC'D by Eurogarages**

[courty61]

Hi received a PCN in the post from a Starbucks car park. Apparently you can only park an hour but I met someone for a new job and we were there for 1hr 30 mins - I can't recall seeing any signs but I must be honest I don't recall seeing any. The charge is £60 which seems a little excessive. 

 

Does it matter who was actually driving the car?

 

1 04/02/20

 

2 07/02/20

 

3 10/02/20

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? Y

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

 

6 Have you appealed? N

 

7 Who is the parking company? ParkingEye

 

8. Where exactly - Starbucks, Windle Island, St Helens

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA

[honeybee13]

Is this the Starbucks? Google seems to think it's close to a Tesco Express, is that right please?

 

https://www.starbucks.fr/store-locator/store/92811/st-helens-rainford-road-dt-east-lancashire-road-windle-island-st-helens-eng-w

 

HB

[courty61]

Yep that is the one.

Well it is next door to a Tesco petrol station (could be an express too).

 

It is on the East Lancs Road

- which joins Liverpool & Manchester for those not aware

- on the junction which takes you into St Helens.

[honeybee13]

Thank you. Is the car park only for Starbucks customers or do other businesses share it?

 

HB

[courty61]

I suppose it would only be for the Tesco too (which I did use beforehand to get some fuel).

 

But it is sort of separate from the Tesco and kind of clear it is for Starbucks

- attached a pic from Google Street View

- Starbucks car park on left.

 

Tesco on right

- there are limited spaces for Tesco, probably about 15 by counting them on street view

 

 

starbuck pic.pdf

[brassnecked]

Ask Starbucks if they like Parking Eye penalising their customers, miht be an option aa bit of Social media shaming where a Parking Cowboy is harassing their customers.

 

  Could you get close up  pictures of the signs at the entrance and cameras etc  and post them as a PDF they would be better than the Street View stuff as we need to see what is written on signs at the entrance and on the site.60 minutes is a ludicrous time  limit for a cafe or place like Starbucks, Maccy "D" KFC etc.

[courty61]

Unfortunately I don't live that close to the Starbucks- well a 30 min drive - to take a decent picture of the signs

[brassnecked]

That's a shame if you can't, as the signage is usually where these fleecers mess up and shoot themselves in the foot, its all on Law of Contract, and if signs are deficient no contract can be formed, as they would merely be Invitation to Treat.  Parking Eye are owned by Capita and are really greedy.  Their Beavis case they punt like its a gospel also doesn't apply to many other cases, as it turns on its own facts.

[lookinforinfo]

First go to the local Council Planning -they often have a portal on line these days.

 

Check to see if there has been planning permission granted for the car park signs and ANPR cameras to be erected there.

Town & Country Planning [Advertisements] regulations.

 

If not, and quite often with PE they are not, then the signs should not have been erected-they are illegal rather than unlawful. 

If by some miracle they did apply, and were granted, then check to see how long motorists were allowed to park there-Councils tend to give around 3 hours.

 

Once you have found out, then complain to Starbucks head office that they have a bunch of cowboys running their parking, breaking the law and driving away their customers. Starbucks are responsible for PE observing the Law. Ask for them therefore to cancel your ticket. You would obviously point out to them if they refused that you would complain to the local newspapers, Twitter, facebook etc, etc, but best to do it asap as the earlier the complaint, the better the chance of the ticket being rescinded.

 

If that works then great.

Failing that, a trip to the car park is your best bet for avoiding payment.

Whatever you do, do not appeal to PE as you lose your protection under POFA.

[dx100uk]

def wont be limited to 1hrsfree parking and no-one bar the council have any power to vary that.

 

 

[courty61]

@lookinforinfo

Thanks. In terms of looking for the car park signs planning etc - would it be via this link -https://www.sthelens.gov.uk/planning-building-control/planning/

 

And then find the application?

I just wanted to make sure.

 

I can actually find the planning for the Coffee shop - P/2011/1031 | Erection of a drive thru' coffee shop. | Land Adjacent To Service Station Rainford Road Windle  but not much else. But wanted to make sure I am looking in right place. 

[ericsbrother]

you look for ANY application for the address and if you cant find one you ask the council about applicatiosn that cover the land. Donet go on about signs as they will tell you that they are "deemed consent" when that isnt true in this case as they are not "informational" in the way the law gives examples like " fire exit" or "bus stop".

These lazy gits can usually have planning consent for free but still dont apply becasue  the council may say no and that will mean an end to their contract for that land or they get told how big the signs must be, where they go etc.

[courty61]

Success! I couldn't find any evidence of any parking restrictions so emailed Starbucks direct.

 

In the email mentioned details as recommended above.

 

They then sent the query onto EuroGarages who run the site. They got in contact with me and asked to send a copy of the notice. They have just confirmed:

 

All our sites are operated with a parking system which helps control issues such as people leaving vehicles for prolonged times or camping out in the car park.

Unfortunately, this ends up affecting genuine paying customers like yourself which is why we have a system in place in each store.

 

For future visits, if you are going to stay over the time limit which is displayed in the car park, just let our staff on site know and they can note your car registration down.

This way you avoid any parking fines.

 

I have appealed the fine on your behalf and managed to successfully get it cancelled. If there is anything else I can help with please let me know.

 

 

So thank you for everyone's help with this, much appreciated. 

[lookinforinfo]

Great news. I expect that the fact that PE they were operating illegally with their signs and ANPR as usual was the main cause they quashed your ticket. But hey a quash is a quash.Won't stop PE from continuing to harass motorists to pay their non existent charges though mores the pity.

Keep that letter handy as PE are quite capable of coming back at you in a few years time  and demanding you pay.

Edited February 20, 2020 by lookinforinfo

[FTMDave]

Well done on your victory!

 

See EuroGarages get it wrong and call it a fine.

 

 

[brassnecked]

They all give it a pseudo legitimacy it doesn't deserve.  PE are greedy and might ignore Starbucks and Eurogarages and pursue regardless.

[dx100uk]

write back and printout that it is NOT A FINE

but merely a speculative invoice for breaking some imaginary contract by entering the private land

 

do it!

put 'em right!!

 

dx

 

[ericsbrother]

glad you got the result you deserved but bear something in mind. the person at starbucks who signed up PE knows nothing about what they have let themselves in for and fell for the sale patter of the person at PE who tells them they can cure their non-existent problems by employing them when the reality is a hidden camera cannot acr as a deterrent to peopel who abuse a syatem but can only clobber those who are unaware of its presence. That also requires peopel to breach the rules so the parking co's invent rules that suit their money grubbing rather then the clients interest in managing their land.

 

all this came out at the supreme court hearing re BEAVIS but it still went the way fo a compay that had it equipment there illegally and couldnt show a schedule of loss for any of its claims and breached consumer contract law.

 

Eurogarages are the largets forecourt owners in the world but the owners have built their emplire with a debt mountain so hurting them directly and letting the world know about it si the way to go if they dont wake up and see the damage being doen to their businesses

[courty61]

Last 1 from me on this. Received a letter from PE confirming that the PCN has been cancelled