STATUE BARRED 3 YEARS AGO

[Multay]

Hiya,

 

You are entitled to SAR whenever you feel the need - or when you have a spare tenner...

 

M

[SHELBELLE]

M

 

Thanks I will get the SAR off tomorrow.

 

 

Update as and when.

 

 

Cheers

 

S.B.

[bobogosing]

Hi S.B.

 

I only can give you moral support aswell, as I m still learning and it seems like we are on the same level with our creditors too.

I will subscribe and read your updates.

Go girl;)

 

bobogosing

[Guest dvdriley]

Sainsburys have also ignored all my letters for a cca and harrassement letters. My question is : If they are committing a summary criminal offence by not complying with cca why does no one try to prosecute them?

[SHELBELLE]

DVD

 

Yes I agree, but unfortunately would not know where to start and what the costs involved would be!!

 

S.B.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Sainsburys have also ignored all my letters for a cca and harrassement letters. My question is : If they are committing a summary criminal offence by not complying with cca why does no one try to prosecute them?

 

Sainsburys will ignore you they are one of the worst.

 

They did it with me issued proceedings then withdrew.

 

I think they work on the attitutde that people do not no there rights.

 

Well you are with CAG now:)

 

HAK

[Multay]

Sainsburys have also ignored all my letters for a cca and harrassement letters. My question is : If they are committing a summary criminal offence by not complying with cca why does no one try to prosecute them?

 

Hi, it's not a criminal offence any more - That was repealed in the 2008 regs update. The 30 days no longer apply unfortunately - it's just the 2 + 12 working days now.

 

The account is in dispute for all of the time they do not provide the true copy - and until they do they may not enforce the agreement.

 

You would probably have a hard time trying to take them to court for not complying.

 

Cheers,

 

M

[cashins]

Hi, it's not a criminal offence any more - That was repealed in the 2008 regs update. The 30 days no longer apply unfortunately - it's just the 2 + 12 working days now.

 

 

Not really a loss, I don't think anyone was ever taken to court for it.

 

David

[SHELBELLE]

Hav, m & Cashins

 

Thanks for your posts, they had my CCA back in June so are well outside the 12 + 2 so can't really see that the 30 days matter with this one.

 

Haven' had time to SAR today, funds low so maybe at end of the month but I will definately be sending it!!!

 

 

S.B.XX

[SHELBELLE]

Hi an update

 

Received the attached from Sains yesterday, a week after date on their letter. In response to my letter that was sent see post 8.

 

Suppose I just sit and wait then??

 

S.B.

[Guest dvdriley]

I received the same letter in July. In august they wrote again confirming they would respond in 4 weeks. On sept 12th they wrote confirming theyt would respond in another 4 weeks!!!!

[SHELBELLE]

Dvd

 

Thanks.

 

I am guessing you have not had a sniff of your CCA then?

 

S.B.

[Guest dvdriley]

i have but half my signiture was missing!!!

[SHELBELLE]

Ok, so it is unenforceable then? Are yo still paying them?

 

 

S.B.

[SHELBELLE]

Hi guys

 

Received a letter and a so called CCA yesterday, I will post the tosh on Monday when I am back at work. I am 99.99% sure it is unenforceable as no signature on it, virtually illegible, no terms etc etc. Looks like an application form and doesn't bear any of my hand writing at all!! In fact I know I applied on line for this CC so wouldn't of necessarily filled out an a written application. I'll let the experts decide on Monday.

 

The following letter came with the so called CCA, I will type and be brief:

 

Thank you for your letter dated 03rd Sept 2008 concerning the above credit card agreement, which is governed by both English Law and the Laws of Scotland and regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I have enclosed the required documentation to demonstrate a fully executed agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This constitutes a copy of the credit card agreement, which complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Acy 1974 ("The Act") and the relevant regulations made pursant to that Act, in particular the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) (As ameneded;

 

The executed credit agreement fulfils your request for a copy of the contract binding both parties.

 

As you are aware, this account was opened on 28th July 2003 on your application, a copy of which we provided to you previously. ( ERM, NO YOU DIDN'T!) You are the main card holder and responsible for the account. The total sum outstanding on this account at the moment is £xxx.

 

I have not seen any record of you querying any transaction on this account at any stage. I have not seen any record of you querying the agreement you entered into on 28th July 2003, at any stage, until the present round of correspondence.(CCA request sent 10.06.08) Further I note that you made regular payments to the account generally in accordance with the terms of the agreement you entered into, until present. ( I have been on DMP with CCCS for more than 18 months).This is a period of approximately 5 years.

 

FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT DOES NOT PROHIBIT COLLECTION ACTIVITY OR DEFAULTS WHEN AN ACCOUNT IS IN DISPUTE (Am I wrong then??)

They then rattle on about enclosing complaints leaflet etc and the FOS all general stuff.

 

 

 

I have highlighted the bits that I feel are incorrect, and obioulsy will post the CCA(yeah right!!) on Monday, but in the mean time I would really appreciate any comments from anyone on the content of the above letter and indeed where I can go from here. A bit of help with my next step would be most appreciated.

 

 

Thnaks in advance.

 

S.B.

[Guest dvdriley]

i have had the same letter today. They did send me a cca 3 weeks with part of my signature missing. I wrote to them telling them this. Their response was the reply you received, above.

They have also sent 2 further agreements with t and c,s. All the sheets are stapled togetherr, undates, unsigned and they SPELT MY NAME WRONG. EWhat should i do now.?

[cashins]

FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT DOES NOT PROHIBIT COLLECTION ACTIVITY OR DEFAULTS WHEN AN ACCOUNT IS IN DISPUTE (Am I wrong then??)

 

 

The OFT guidelines do.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Deceptive and Unfair Methods

2.8(k). Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

Examples of unfair practises

2.6(h). Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

[SHELBELLE]

Hi all

 

Many thanks for your posts.

 

I have uploaded the so called CCA attached here. Would really like confirmation that this is not enforceable. It is a poor copy and right at the bottom it looks like some kind of signature but it definately isn't mine. Also cannot see any proper terms etc on here.

 

Advice needed as to it's enforceablility as well as help with what letter I send next.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

S.B.X

 

 

Edited January 21, 2009 by SHELBELLE
personal details

[robcag]

Hi SB

 

I'm not an expert but IMHO what you have posted is unenforceable if it is as illegible as what we can see from your scan. The illegibility on its own will make it unenforceable if that is the quality of the only copy which Sainsburys have.

 

I agree with you regarding no prescribed terms being present. From what I can see there is also nothing to link the alleged signature document with any other page by any reference to it, although as I said, I cannot actually read it.

 

There is a letter on the forums somewhere which you can use if you wish to reply regarding what you have been sent (although I am not advising you either way, others may say don't reply).

 

An extract of the letter and the part which refers to the relevant regulations contained within the letter is;

 

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XX/XX/2008

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

 

 

Also the document you have supplied is in the most part illegible. To which I bring your attention section - Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

(3) Any such footnote shall not be treated as part of any Form prescribed by these Regulations and may be reproduced

in addition to any such Form.

(4) Where any such footnote requires any words to be omitted, those words shall be omitted or deleted.

 

You could use this as a basis for any reply.

 

HTH

 

Cheers

Rob

[SHELBELLE]

Hi Rob

 

Thanks for you help.

 

Yes it is mainly illegible as per the scanned copy.

 

I also thought that it would be unenforceable due to my signature not being included on it.

 

Thanks for your letter template, I think it covers it all.

 

One more thing, is that further up in the thread, Cashins, kindly posted that it was against OFT guidelines to issue a Default when the account was in dispute: Can I edit your template to remind them of this and to get them to remove the default on my credit report??

 

 

Thanks

 

S.B.X

[robcag]

Hi SB

 

Hi Rob

 

Thanks for you help.

 

Yes it is mainly illegible as per the scanned copy.

 

I also thought that it would be unenforceable due to my signature not being included on it. They do not have to supply a document with a signature on it to comply with your CCA request, but as you say, if they do not have a copy (also has to be legible) with your signature on to produce in court then they cannot enforce i.e. win any court case.

 

Thanks for your letter template, I think it covers it all. It's not actually my template, I copied it from elsewhere on the forums.

 

One more thing, is that further up in the thread, Cashins, kindly posted that it was against OFT guidelines to issue a Default when the account was in dispute: Can I edit your template to remind them of this and to get them to remove the default on my credit report?? Probably not as simple as that but you can try. I'd save that for another day!

 

 

Thanks

 

S.B.X

 

Good luck

Rob

[SHELBELLE]

Rob

 

Ok, all understood, thanks.

 

Will get the letter off tomorrow, unless anyone advises me not too!!!

 

 

Cheers

 

S.B.X

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Is there some part missing as like you say there is no signature box?

 

As it stands it is totally unenforcable.

 

If you have not already done so you need to send an offical complaint letter off regarding the breach of section 78(1). This might help you at a later date.

 

HAK

[SHELBELLE]

HAK

 

Thanks for your post.

 

If you have a look at the scanned copy of teh "cca" then there is a "principal cardholder" signature box on the rigt hand side which is unsigned, but I believe, courtesey of Robcag, that they do not have to provided a signed copy but would have to produce it if they took me to court. I am thinking that they don't have it otherwise, I assume, they would hit me with it straight away. We will see...

 

On another note, I did previously send a formal complaint advising them they were in breach of CCA 78, so I think I have that covered.

 

Lastly, as per your previous post no 48 are you referring to CCA or OFT regs as per Cashins post no 47? I am getting a bit confused with all these sections etc, so would like to get clarification if I may.

 

Would really appreciate some guidance, can I slip these in to Robcag's(courtesey of this site) recommended letter?? (not doubting you rob just want to make sure i have covered it all!!)

 

Thanks for everything.

 

S.B.