Bifolds fitted at incorrect floor level *** Judgment plus Costs***

[conflyer]

But still be aware that you have a time limit to respond the defendant CC...14 days as you become the part 20 defendant.

 

Have a read of the following which explains the process in detail

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part20

 

I presume the time limit for part 20 Defence to the CC will start after fee is paid and paperwork from a local court is sent out?

 

There are no particulars of CC or list of the costs claimed. It does not really raise any points to defend so the response will be on the basis of how the claim came about and the endless time they wasted on my end.

[conflyer]

Status now moved to "transfer" therefore the other party has put forward a somewhat vexatious and unreasonable CC.

 

I am working on my Part 20 Defence and reply to Defence. I believe the Defence points were addressed pretty thoroughly in PoC already but in order to be pedantic their points can be easily addressed.

 

Am I inclined to respond to anything further than the handwritten points raised and the "nature of claim" stated for CC? The "enclosed" documents referred to the defence were not served with the filing...

[AndyOrch]

If not already uploaded can you scan and redact their defence and counter claim and post here to your thread.?

[conflyer]

Defence and counterclaim attached with redacted information.

 

Documents referred in the last line as enclosed were not served with Defence filing.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]74118[/ATTACH]

[conflyer]

Also may I clarify time limits in post #75 for part 20 defence to CC.

I find the court letter unclear to that part because this is like a staggered Defence/CC.

 

Does the 14 day period still count from the date of "service" of the original form? In which case p20 defence has to be filed by 3 Dec, or is the local court going to send out papers with instructions?

[AndyOrch]

http://guide2law.com/how-defend-counterclaim

 

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/part-20-survival-guide/36576.article

[conflyer]

http://guide2law.com/how-defend-counterclaim

 

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/part-20-survival-guide/36576.article

 

Thank you for the links!

 

I find this a bit confusing but I cannot see why it has to be,

the gazette article is a little more advanced. First focusing on the time limit, there is some contradiction between the two articles.

 

The law gazette says:

A counterclaim against a claimant is not served with a response pack.However, the consequence of not filing a defence within 14 days is judgment in default (rule 20.3(3)).

The claimant cannot buy time to file a defence to the counterclaim by filing an acknowledgement of service as this procedure is not available.

 

I don't understand why the claimant is not entitled to instructions of how to respond to a counterclaim.

 

the guide2law says:

If you need more time to prepare counterclaim defence then you should file Acknowledgment of Service(county court form N213) within 14 days. After that you have totally 28 days to prepare reply to counterclaim.

 

So which one applies? Can Acknoledgement be filed?

 

If to be on safe side defence to CC must be filed by 14 days of "service" (is it deemed "served" even though not paid).

 

Further questionmarks,

Which court do I file the defence CC to?

CC has no particulars or cost breakdown. Would denial to all claims suffice in that case?

Defence can be filed separatrly with DQ when sent out.

[AndyOrch]

Yes it can be rather confusing and its not clearly laid out....I would simply submit a response to the defence and cc (all in one document) and submit it with your DQ within 14 days...irrespective of whether they have paid the CC fee or not.

 

It was interesting to read in the above links that a set off CC requires no fee...and what is determined as a set off CC rather than a part 20 CC.

 

Andy

[conflyer]

Yes it can be rather confusing and its not clearly laid out....I would simply submit a response to the defence and cc (all in one document) and submit it with your DQ within 14 days...irrespective of whether they have paid the CC fee or not.

 

It was interesting to read in the above links that a set off CC requires no fee...and what is determined as a set off CC rather than a part 20 CC.

 

Andy

 

Thank you.

 

I contacted the local court and confirmed they have the case. I can only work on assumption the fee was paid (they did not pull file to give specifics).

 

They advised to file a reply soon to be on the safe side but not necessarily DQ if not instructed.

It is disappointing the claimant is expected to do all this guesswork without information or forms from the court.

 

Because time is tight and quite a few things to complete, forgive the list of practical questions,

1. Reply to defence is almost done, I need to check no new points are raised from PoC. Most of it is already addressed in my PoC, would it suffice to only Defend the points they raise and what are your thoughts on the PDF?

2. Can I "refer" to the Expert report? I did with my PoC as it forms the basis of my claim?

3. What defence could be entered to the CC, since there are no particulars or costs breakdown? How significant is the CC Defence and how is it possible without any info?

4. To be pedantic, does my date calculation stand correct? 3-Dec / 14 days after deemed service of Defence - (in case this becomes an issue later)

5. If you believe I should submit a DQ - questions follow in other post below

[conflyer]

If a DQ need to be submitted with CC defence (this is quite a lot of information expected in very short time)

 

• Should I tick mediation?
  
• Can I attach the report and a cover letter explaining the reasons it should be considered for the DJ consideration?
  
• Should I attach the fees already paid for the report? / new hourly rate (post report) quoted by the Expert now?
  
• it is almost impossible to enter dates of witness availability...
  

[AndyOrch]

1. Reply to defence is almost done, I need to check no new points are raised from POC. Most of it is already addressed in my PoC, would it suffice to only Defend the points they raise and what are your thoughts on the PDF? A must you only respond to points raised in the defence...with regards to their defence/CC...my grandson could respond more professionally.

 

2. Can I "refer" to the Expert report? I did with my PoC as it forms the basis of my claim? No need to unless they have referred to it in their defence CC

 

3. What defence could be entered to the CC, since there are no particulars or costs breakdown? How significant is the CC Defence and how is it possible without any info? Simply respond as the CC contains not statement of case or quantifies its losses the part20 claimant is put to strict proof to disclose and evidence its losses.(Have a read of CPR 16 responses to claims..defence..statement of case )

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16

 

4. To be pedantic, does my date calculation stand correct? 3-Dec / 14 days after deemed service of Defence - (in case this becomes an issue later) Whats the 3rd of December ?

Simply calculate the 14 days from receipt of their response

 

5. If you believe I should submit a DQ - questions follow in other post below The Court issues the DQ you have little control and the process is a little different when a Part20 CC is involved

 

 

 

 

If a DQ need to be submitted with CC defence (this is quite a lot of information expected in very short time) See above

 

Should I tick Mediation? Yes

 

Can I attach the report and a cover letter explaining the reasons it should be considered for the DJ consideration? No

Should I attach the fees already paid for the report? / new hourly rate (post report) quoted by the Expert now? No

it is almost impossible to enter dates of witness availability...

[conflyer]

4. The Defence was served on 19-Nov (filed 16-Nov with MCOL), "within" 14 days would then be Sunday 2 Dec. I assume this allows up to serve next business day 3 Dec?

 

5. This concept is a little unclear, sorry to clarify again. How does the court issue DQ to parties and at the same time I have to file "with it" within 14 days from defence service?

submit a response to the defence and cc (all in one document) and submit it with your DQ within 14 days...irrespective of whether they have paid the CC fee or not.

 

Unless you meant to submit the response to the defendant first and then submit it with DQ 14 days after DQs are issued by the court.

[AndyOrch]

No just submit your response now...forget the DQ...your response will trigger the DQ

[conflyer]

Thank you this all makes sense now.

 

I got a little confused with the previous points and CPR 15 (3.2A).

[conflyer]

When a 3rd party to the case is addressed in Defence, what would be the best way to reply to such statement

a) if the claimant witnesses something but cannot be responsible for a 3rd party

b) if the claimant replies to the best of their knowledge but are unable to verify what e.g was discussed between other parties

 

I also found this article interesting,

https://civillitigationbrief.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/pleading-a-defence-properly-the-difference-between-an-non-admission-a-denial-explored/

[AndyOrch]

You are only submitting a defence to the counter claim...not their defence.

 

https://civillitigationbrief.wordpress.com/2016/07/19/replies-and-defence-to-counterclaim-a-primer/

 

Andy

[conflyer]

Great, I seem to have confused myself with the earlier post #83 to submit a reply and defence to CC with DQ. And also read "response" as an overall point.

 

Things now falling into place with Practice Direction 15/3.2A. I was trying to complete a reply to defence at the same time!

I wish the court could issued a better letter direction regarding CC...

 

The defence to CC can only be short due to absence of any statements or cost schedule. I wonder if "non-admission" should be used in the wording...

https://civillitigationbrief.wordpress.com/2016/07/17/if-you-are-going-to-draft-pleadings-then-do-it-properly-a-reply-and-defence-to-counterclaim-is-not-a-mere-formality/

[conflyer]

Country Court Business Centre have just sent Notice of Transfer

 

• Notice of Transfer of Proceedings
  
• Notice of Proposed Allocation to Small Claims Track
  
• DQ N180 - to be filed by 10 Dec to local County Court.
  

 

Notice of Transfer:

The defendant has filed a defence and counterclaim, therefore the claim has been transferred to the County Court

Hearing Centre listed below.

TO ALL PARTIES - You are required to complete a Directions Questionnaire, as per the enclosed notice. Please

note the Directions Questionnaire should be sent to the relevant local County Court Hearing Centre and not to

the County Court Business Centre.

TO THE CLAIMANT - Please note, as the defendant has filed a counterclaim you are also required to file

a response using the enclosed response pack. Please be aware that if you do not dispute the counterclaim the

defendant may be able to obtain Judgment against you for the amount they are claiming. As you will be responding

as the defendant to the counterclaim, please read and complete the response forms listing yourself as the defendant.

 

There is a N9B Defence and Counterclaim form enclosed. No time limits are mentioned.

 

I am planning to serve a separate Defence to CC letter first thing tomorrow to both the Defendant and Court. Any thoughts?

[conflyer]

ME (Claimant/Part 20 Defendant)

-and-

COMPANY (Defendant/Part 20 Claimant)

 

_______________________

 

DEFENCE TO COUNTERCLAIM

_______________________

 

 

DEFENCE TO COUNTERCLAIM

 

1. The sum counterclaimed by the Defendant/Part 20 Claimant is completely denied. The figure of £XX,XXX is unsubstantiated and vexatious and the Claimant/Part 20 Defendant challenges the Defendant/Part 20 Claimant to properly detail the exaggerated costs claimed for loss of business time and correspondence. Further the counterclaim enclosed no statements of case or a schedule of costs quantifying the losses claimed by the Defendant/Part 20 Claimant. As such they are required to be put to strict proof to disclose and evidence their losses. The Claimant/Part 20 Defendant has further been in contact with the Country Court Business Centre on 21/11/2018 confirming that no other documents were filed with the Court.

 

The Defendant is unable to plead a response in the absence of any particulars of the allegation.

 

It is denied that the Defendant has suffered any loss/costs at all

 

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

Edited November 29, 2018 by Andyorch
edited

[AndyOrch]

I would remove the words in blue and make the changes in bold.

 

Rest is fine.

 

Andy

[conflyer]

Thank you Andy!

 

Sent to both defendant and local court with brief cover letter stating this is Defence to CC and attached a copy of the Defendant's N9B.

[conflyer]

Thank you Andy!

 

Sent to both defendant and local court with brief cover letter stating this is Defence to CC and attached a copy of the Defendant's N9B.

 

Just to cover all bases, is it a mandatory requirement to serve the Defence to CC with a N9B or a letter would suffice?

[AndyOrch]

Simply submit your response...you did add the County court name and claim number ?

[conflyer]

Yes, of course. All the details are included in my letters (added in the header of the Defence above) and sent to local County Court where the case was transferred, plus defendant.

 

The reason it is confusing is the Notice of Transfer from the CCBC above, asking to use attached forms (N9B). Well, their instructions are too late and do not suggest a time limit or a submission with DQ. In the absence of clear instructions I definitely opted for the safest option of Practice 15(3.2A) as discussed.

[conflyer]

I am working on the reply to defence for the DQ submission which is 1 week away.

 

On the previous question, what is the best approach to points where 3rd party is mentioned?

I witnessed events that statements attempt to distort i.e "dimensions were provided by your builder", this is simply untrue. The company brought in their own surveyor.

The builder just provided a finished floor guideline but I cannot know what they discussed between them beyond the site survey.

 

 

Some questions regarding the DQ,

It says parties are expected to contact each other and agree track and possible settlement before submission.

I wonder how is that possible when they refused everything for 10 months and now try to counterclaim an excessive amount?

 

Particulars of claim:

When sending in N215 to CCBC I attached the particulars of claim. Is the court going to have my detailed particulars of claim during DQ/track consideration?

 

Expert Witness:

The box asks "what is the likely cost if appointed". Am I required to submit a rate in this case? I was considering to add a summary description of the report and reasons to be submitted.