Lowell Claimform - Old Lloyds Credit Card Debt

[hitback]

OK Thanks,

 

Do we write to them and tell them we wrote to them at their po box address in 2016 asking them for proof of their claims and they didnt reply??

[Andyorch]

OK Thanks,

 

Do we write to them and tell them we wrote to them at their po box address in 2016 asking them for proof of their claims and they didnt reply??

 

No...read post #25 again

[hitback]

Just printed the cpr letter for posting but noticed that certain things are asked for but it also says delete if not on the particualr of claims.

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: Notice of Assignment*

 

3: The Default Notice*

 

4: The Termination Notice*(if applicable for loans/HP/)

 

5: Statement of Account*

 

6: [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

Can I add things I want them to supply or what ones do I delete?

 

[Andyorch]

No you cant add anything and you delete the ones not mentioned in the claimants particulars.

[hitback]

Thanks Andyorch

 

Speaking about this. It just says on the claim

 

3) The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on 4/11/2015 and written notice given to the Defendant.

 

What we received was a letter from this company (introducing) themselves saying that they now own the debt. Should I ask for notice of assigment and deed of assignment that I'm led to believe is an agreement/contract showing what (if this is true) they paid for the debt??

[Andyorch]

You can ask for the agreement...but you also ask for that separate by way of a CCA1974 request and the Notice of Assignment.

 

You cant ask for the Deed of Assignment...that is a confidential transaction between the original creditor and assignee...a bit like asking to see your neighbours invoice for their new car.

[hitback]

That's really interesting but what if you were to turn that on its head.

 

In this case the entire credit card, the amount oustanding, the interest and other exhoribitant charges were in dispute.

Morever the bank had agreed and said they would refund but they never did.

 

Instead more dcas came and went all claiming to act for the oc or claiming ownership.

Under duress more payments were made as so much pressure was being applied.

Its not as though settlement wasnt sought?

 

So it begs the question:

WHY CANT YOU ASK for the Deed of Assigment for if the OC was prepared to sell a debt at a particular price point, then why wouldn't it be offered first to the alleged debtor as a full and final payment?

 

I'm not experianced enough but I think there is a case here and if anyone else agrees couldnt it be worthwhile trying to add this to the armory to help others that will inevitably end up in this predicament?

 

Just throwing this out there...

[Andyorch]

Because you are the debtor and only third party to the sale of the debt between the Assignor and Assignee as per the terms and conditions of the agreement that you agreed to at the the time of inception.

 

We know how much they sold it for around 10p in the £....as for the mechanics of assignment of debts your better reading the Law of Property Act to fully understand.

[hitback]

Just a thought

but would love it to in some way be actionable and get rid of these DCA bottom feeders.

 

When I see first hand the misery they cause and how these constant threats and aggressive telephone calls damage peoples health

[dx100uk]

it might be worthy for us and you and p'haps for latter use in your witness statement

to do a time line of the DCA's involved name them and what was paid and went etc

then we can explain things better to you.

 

most of your questions I think stem from incorrectly reading and p'haps not now, but when you were

believing in that stupid freemen of the land twaddle.

[hitback]

Andyorch: Isn't it the case that a deed of assignment is forced upon the 'defaulter' and in that respect 'all parties' are not in agreement. Or because something is implied or stated in an agreement that we are reduced to a third party detached position.

 

I can understand why they would not want to show a deed of assignment if they only paid 10p in the pound yet they are now demanding every penny of the alleged debt plus innordinate additional charges!

 

I've read, dont know if its true but they dont have a deed of assignment and the reason is a dca cannot acquire full right, title or interest as the banks cannot assign that. That the dca can only acquire assignment of one side of the ledger under certain right's, title, interest to that ledger?

 

dx100uk: Thats partly true as I always thought the whole - family of and dont call me Mr/Mrs/Miss was a bit daft but I know it still goes on.

 

When does a witness statement have to be written up?

[hitback]

Anyway I'll say no more about that as I want to get on with this but this whole thing is a minefield!!

[renegadeimp]

Not a minefield at all. Youve just read too much fotl crap which is deigned to confuse you and make you think their advice has validity.

 

Youve been given the info already that you need to progress a defense. take some time and read the replies you have been given.

[hitback]

I think youre probably right but I only posted that to find out if it had any vaildity and on the chance that it did it might help others.

 

Nuff said really - All I want to do is help get a result and not mess things up.

 

Thanks everyone...

[Andyorch]

Andyorch: Isn't it the case that a deed of assignment is forced upon the 'defaulter' and in that respect 'all parties' are not in agreement. Or because something is implied or stated in an agreement that we are reduced to a third party detached position.

 

I can understand why they would not want to show a deed of assignment if they only paid 10p in the pound yet they are now demanding every penny of the alleged debt plus innordinate additional charges!

 

I've read, dont know if its true but they dont have a deed of assignment and the reason is a dca cannot acquire full right, title or interest as the banks cannot assign that. That the dca can only acquire assignment of one side of the ledger under certain right's, title, interest to that ledger?

 

dx100uk: Thats partly true as I always thought the whole - family of and dont call me Mr/Mrs/Miss was a bit daft but I know it still goes on.

 

When does a witness statement have to be written up?

 

The Deed of Assignment is merely a legal document that is required to fulfil the transaction between seller and buyer....how can a document be forced on you ?

The reason they are not required to disclose it to you is because your not party to the transaction ...think of it another way...your renting a house your landlord sells it to new landlord...would you want to see the new landlords conveyancing file ?

 

All DCAs have a deed of assignment...if the debts been assigned to them...only if a DCA is acting for its client (the original creditor) is there no deed...obviously because they have not bought the debt and are only collecting on it for a comission ...a DCA can only issue a court claim if it owns the debt....it would be fraudulent to litigate a claim without ownership.

 

My last words .....as this has been posted and argued 1000,s of times here on CAG.

 

Andy

[hitback]

No...read post #25 again

 

OK all done

 

Re the quote: NO?

Even when they say in their claim that we didnt answer their letters and we might rely on this for part of the defence?

 

That being said I dont know what a defence looks like yet or what is in it. Maybe if someone can point me to a good CAG template I'll know better?

[hitback]

Sorry the question was:

 

Do we write to them and tell them we wrote to them at their po box address in 2016 asking them for proof of their claims and they didnt reply??

[jon8214]

No you don't remind them

 

as DX says you actually don't want a reply from them

[jon8214]

if you search for lowells credit card claim in the search box at the top of the page

 

there will examples of claims that have been won

 

check theses threads for examples of defences

[Andyorch]

OK all done

 

Re the quote: NO?

Even when they say in their claim that we didnt answer their letters and we might rely on this for part of the defence?

 

That being said I dont know what a defence looks like yet or what is in it. Maybe if someone can point me to a good CAG template I'll know better?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?190-Legal-Successes

[dx100uk]

post it up here 1st!!

 

defence is due till/by Friday 19th jan.

 

id get reading up NOW

so you don't make the silly mistakes on things you have to date by NOT READING THINGS PROPERLY...

[hitback]

Hi All,

 

I sent the cpr and cca letters but have received no reply. I now want to get this defence in.

 

I found this one on cag and while it looks good there are a couple of things I'm not sure about.

 

2. .... I am unaware of what alleged debt the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim.

As in their claim they did particularise, they mention the bank, they quote the account number and they show the amount in their POC this is what I posted earlier in the string:

 

1)The defendant opened a Lloyds (Credit Card) regulated consumer crediticon account under reference **************** on 17/05/2004 ('the Agreement’).

2) In breach of the Agreement, the Defendant failed to maintain the required payments and the Agreement was terminated.

3) The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on 24/112015 and written notice given to the Defendant.

4) Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of £4,908.00 remains due and outstanding.

 

And the Claimant claims The said sum of £4,908.00

Interest pursuant to s69 Count Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £1.076, but limited to one year, being £329.59

Costs

This is the one I found on CAG and I don’t know what to do or what to put in and I don’t want to get it wrong. Can anyone help?

 

Defence

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds. I am unaware of what alleged debt the claimant refers to and have requested further information by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request which the claimant has failed to respond to and is in breach of the section 78 request.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted and await further information with regards to service of a Default Notice.

 

4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I do not recall receiving any Notice of Assignment from either assignor or assignee pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have declined to comply to my section 78 request and remain in default and with regards to my CPR 31.14 request. The claimant with their none compliance to my requests have frustrated my attempts to clarify their claim.

 

6. Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show and evidence that a Default Notice was issued pursuant to sec87.1 CCA1974;

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

7.. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Andyorch
Edited

[hitback]

Hope this helps as I need to get this in tomorrow.

 

My friend DID send them a letter in 2016 asking them to confirm certain things but they ignored that.

 

*Aslo this account was always in dispute and Lloyds promised to reimburse and freeze the account for 28-days but then 13-days later they instructed yet another DCA.

 

Can any of this of this be put in the defence?

[dx100uk]

due Friday by 4pm

did he get pre action protocol letter and the reply form as in post 6 attachment here:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481827-The-Pre-Action-Protocol-for-Debt-Claims-is-made-by-the-Master-of-the-Rolls-as-Head-of-Civil-Justice.-1st-Oct-2017

 

and did he reply?

[Andyorch]

Defence edited.....awaiting response to PaP letter above.

 

 

Andy