Accused of benefit fraud (undeclared work) scared i'm going to prison

[Cat780]

Please help, I'm so scared that i'm going to prison

 

I'm on ESA and have been for the past 3/4 years.

In that time, i've have 3 part time jobs all 16 hours and under and i've declared all of them with a permitted work form.

 

The only reason i can think this has come about is that at the beginning of July this year i was offered a job for 16 hours but was told i'd have at least 1 day extra as overtime.

I rang up ESA and told them i wanted to stop my ESA claim.

 

A few days later my mental health went to crap and i told my new boss that i wouldn't be able to do it.

She then agreed to me doing only 16 hours and i thought i could handle that

(i hadn't even started the job when i told her i couldn't do it).

 

I then did an ESA rapid reclaim and was told that everything would be the same as my old claim, Income related ESA in the support group.

 

Turns out that i'm now contribution based ESA in the support group, i didn't even know until my housing benefit stopped a few weeks ago.

 

I'd also started a claim for working tax credits as originally i'd be working 25 hours a week on average.

i sent in my permitted work form for 16 hours a week and started my new job at the end of July.

 

By this time my mental health was getting worse again and i didn't realize it, i was getting all these letters from people for changes in income, the dwp health assessment letter for my esa and i just couldn't cope.

 

About 4 weeks after i'd started work, i realized i hadn't even stopped the WTC

i spoke to an online adviser and told them that i needed to stop my tax credits and thought nothing of it as at the beginning esa was deducting the WTC amount from my ESA and i had to wait for a letter to come through to send to ESA to prove i had ended WTC. I didn't think anymore of it.

 

On October the 1st, i had to send in a sick note to work because i just couldn't cope anymore, i couldn't leave the house, someone knocking at the door or the phone ringing terrified me and i had to go back onto anti depressants and anti anxiety medication, and on October the 12th (i think) i was dismissed from work.

 

I went to the post office to get my money for my child tax credits on the 10th or the 11th of October, i normally get it out on a wednesday but i was short on money so i got it out on the tuesday instead, and i realise that there's too much money.

 

I thought that because i was getting my money out on the Wednesdays every 2 weeks and the amounts were the same, that WTC had informed ESA about me stopping WTC and ESA were paying the amount they said they would when they had notification of my WTC stopping.

 

 

i logged onto my online tax credits account, and there was a live claim for WTC!

I immediately stopped it online and as the end date i put the 12th of October as this was my dismissal date.

 

I've sent them a letter about over payments (my phone and internet were cut off) because i wasn't entitled to that money, but i've not heard anything. Will they get back to me about it or am i going to have to call them or speak to them instead?

 

The payments i received for my job was £380 at the beginning of September, about the same at the end of September, £250 at the end of October and £150 holiday pay at the end of November.

 

I'm so scared that i'm going to prison.

I have a partner that i have to care for and a 3 year old.

I didn't mean for any of this to happen.

 

I sent in my permitted work form and told WTC to stop my WTC, then ended it myself when i saw it was still a live claim.

I really don't know what to do

 

That's the only reason i can think of as to why they think i didn't declare my employment status, but i thought that if it was under 16 hours a week and less than £100 a month, then it's classed as permitted work.

 

 

Now i'm wondering if it was either of the other jobs i did.

I don't even know anymore as the letter only states undeclared work and nothing else.

 

 

My interview is the 21st of December and i've told them that i'm going to attend.

I'm too scared of police turning up to my door if i don't go.

 

I'm really scared as i've never been to court, i don't even have a criminal record!

I've never done anything illegal let alone got in trouble for a crime.

 

What happens now?

I've messaged a few people at the local solicitors but not heard anything yet and the CAB in my area is only open for about 5-6 hours every Thursday, but i'm not guaranteed an appointment.

 

 

I feel so sick, i can't eat, i can't sleep, if the door bell rings or someone knocks on the door, it sends me into such a state that i'm having panic attacks.

 

 

Even the phone ringing petrifies me and i'm shaking whenever the post man comes because i'm scared of what post may come through my door.

 

What do i do? Sorry for being a baby and for my post being so long. I'm nearly 30 and should be able to cope with this but i can't

Edited December 2, 2016 by Cat780

[dx100uk]

calm down

you wont be going to prison

and the police would never be involved in such a small trivial matter.

 

 

you don't need a solicitor

I would guess this can quite easily be dealt with by the person you are seeing on the 21st.

[Bazooka Boo]

Wait SLOW down!

 

You are NOT going to prison and you are NOT going to court.

 

All the bungling DWP have done is accuse you of ben fraud, they do this to me on an almost annual basis, it seriously is NOTHING to worry about.

 

Get all of your ducks in order now, write down as much info as you can remember, if you have the dates of when you informed them, and sent them permitted work forms, then collate all of that info.

 

You WILL NOT go to prison, this is not a deliberate act of fraud or deceit, it is simply the DWP's deliberate miscommunication and exploiting a claimants lack of knowledge.

[Cat780]

Thank you for replying so quickly.

 

Sorry for panicking, the letter just really scared me, it makes it sound like i'm going to be arrested right after the interview.

 

I forgot to mention that it's an interview under caution, that's what got me so scared.

 

I've only ever heard of a compliance interview, so i'm guessing an IUC is going to be worse?

 

Sorry, i have chronic anxiety and depression and when something like this gets into my head, i always think the worse.

 

I'll be writing things down later on and i've found my dismissal letters too.

 

I only received 1 pay slip and that was for the beginning of September, but i do have the payment evidence as it was paid into my bank.

 

i thought that if it was under 16 hours a week and less than £100 a month, then it's classed as permitted work.

 

Supposed to say £100 a week

 

My interview is the 21st of December and i've told them that i'm going to attend.

I'm too scared of police turning up to my door if i don't go.

 

Forgot to mention it is an Interview under caution.

[Bazooka Boo]

No an IUC is simply them reading you your rights.

 

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-deal-interview-under-caution

[Shoelover]

Firstly can I say prison for a first offence is highly highly unlikely.

If you attend the voluntary interview then there is no net for the police to get involved. Yes the letters are scary.

 

Given what you have said about your health, I would advise you to speak with a solicitor and also to request that you have an appropriate adult at the interview - this could be a friend or similar.

 

I would suggest you write yourself some notes of key dates etc. An IUC is formal but most of the time, once the formalities are out of the way they are just low key chats. It's your chance to say what has happened.

 

Please put prison out of your mind. Any idea of the rough overpayment?

[Cat780]

Thank you for the reply's, it really does mean so much to me right now.

 

So an IUC is just me getting read my rights, ok. Thank you for the link, i'll have a read through it in a bit.

 

I've emailed the couple of solicitors in my area. As it's rural, there's only 2 law firms. I've not heard anything from them yet, but hopefully i will do soon. CAB are unhelpful as i can't get through to anyone and i'm not even guaranteed an appointment even if i can get hold of them.

 

I don't have anyone who can come with me, and i'll have to take my 3 year old daughter with me too because i have nobody to look after her. My partner has a prolapsed disk at the moment so he couldn't help if there was an accident.

 

I've no idea about the over payment, to my knowledge it's about £700 for the working tax credit. I don't think i've been overpaid with the ESA because they were taking out the WTC amount from my ESA (i was told this when i did my rapid reclaim) and the amount i received every two weeks has been no different. I don't even know if i've been over paid HB or Council Tax. I'll probably end up with a letter from them soon, but i don't think it'll be too much (i hope).

 

But according to the letter, it's not about an over payment, it's about undeclared work. So, if i go to this interview and hopefully get it sorted with the interviewer, should i expect letters for over payments too? My housing benefit and Council tax benefit have been stopped for about 4/5 weeks now.

 

It's just very scary lol. I know i shouldn't be laughing but this is what happens at the end of my panic attacks, it's like a euphoria feeling and i can't control it. Thank you for calming me down guys x

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, put the overpayment out of your head then.

 

If it's undeclared work, can you rebut their accusations?

 

Have you declared everything you did?

 

If you can document all of your work, and show that they have been informed, then it is once again, their archaic system, which is wrongfully accusing innocent claimants.

[Cat780]

I sent them a permitted work form because i called up for one about 4-5 weeks before as i'd had a few good interviews and was certain i was going to get a job soon. I didn't get it sent recorded as i only had enough money for the stamp and that was it. But i only sent that off once it was confirmed that i would only be working 16 hours a week and that was the last week of July. I couldn't call them because my phone had been cut off, and i just assumed they'd received it. It's really only my word against theirs now isn't it. If i've done something wrong then fair enough, but i honestly did (what i thought) was correct at the time.

 

I've honestly never done a rapid reclaim before and i've never had working tax credits before this. My understanding was that they all informed each other anyway. naivety on my part i guess. My head was so messed up that i just did what i thought i was supposed to do. Once i get another job, it's going to be full time and i'm cancelling all benefits. I'm not going through this again, it's too much. I don't care if the full time job is bad for my health, i'm not getting any sort of part time job even if it's under the permitted rules if this is what happens.

 

Again, thank you for your reply x

[Shoelover]

Have you gone over the permitted work limit at all?

[Cat780]

No, not that i'm aware of.

 

I know some times i was on the rota for an extra few hours but i never turned up for them or i'd missed a shift during the week

 

for example a 5 hour shift so i'd do the 4 hour shift instead (that was classed as extra hours had i worked the previous 5 hour shift) just to make up the money lost.

 

Now i'm wondering if i've done a couple of weeks over the 16 hours, my head was so messed up that i couldn't even track the shifts i was in for the first 6 odd weeks.

 

I don't even know now.

 

I'm too scared to even talk to my old boss

, i've not even been back to the shop where i worked since i was off sick and that was about 9 weeks ago.

 

If i'm this flustered on a forum, i've no idea how i'm going to handle this interview

. I'll probably end up having to go to court for fraud.

 

I well and truly feel like i've made a mess and i don't even know where i've made a mess

 

I'm actually wondering if they're going to say they've not received my permitted work form.

 

I'm sure they'll believe the dwp before they believe anything that comes out of my mouth x

Edited December 2, 2016 by Cat780

[Shoelover]

Actually, the courts have been known to give people the benefit of the doubt.

The fraud officers interview people all the time that are nervous. However, you do sound as if you would benefit from having a legal rep with you, to help you put across your mitigation.

You might want to consider asking them to bring the IUC forward. Waiting three weeks in this state of worry will be give you time to worry yourself.

Most people say the IUC wasn't as bad as they expected x

[Cat780]

I really hope so Shoelover.

I thought i'd done everything correctly but i'm guessing because of this Interview Under Caution, i've gone wrong somewhere. I'm trying to find a legal rep but nobody has got back to me yet, hopefully someone will soon.

 

It's been such an exhausting day,

i don't even have the energy to tell my partner about all of it either as it'll just create more stress for me.

 

I'll have to take my daughter to the IUC as i have nobody to look after her, do you think they'll allow this? x

[dx100uk]

You'll be OK

Its not that serious

All you need to do is be honest

 

Why don't you write to your boss and ask for your timesheets

[honeybee13]

I really hope so Shoelover.

I thought i'd done everything correctly but i'm guessing because of this Interview Under Caution, i've gone wrong somewhere. I'm trying to find a legal rep but nobody has got back to me yet, hopefully someone will soon.

 

It's been such an exhausting day,

i don't even have the energy to tell my partner about all of it either as it'll just create more stress for me.

 

I'll have to take my daughter to the IUC as i have nobody to look after her, do you think they'll allow this? x

 

Hello there.

 

I agree with the others who have commented that this can probably be sorted for you. I think we had someone else recently who took her baby to the meeting because there was nobody else to offer childcare on the day.

 

From what you've written, I think you've made an honest mistake and now you're beating yourself up over it which I don't think you need to. I hope that the person who interviews you will see this as well.

 

Hugs, HB

[Shoelover]

I really hope so Shoelover.

I thought i'd done everything correctly but i'm guessing because of this Interview Under Caution, i've gone wrong somewhere. I'm trying to find a legal rep but nobody has got back to me yet, hopefully someone will soon.

 

It's been such an exhausting day,

i don't even have the energy to tell my partner about all of it either as it'll just create more stress for me.

 

I'll have to take my daughter to the IUC as i have nobody to look after her, do you think they'll allow this? x

Possibly not... depends on the officer. I think you would be better served to get someone to look after your daughter. You will want to concentrate on the IUC.

[honeybee13]

Sorry Shoelover, crossed posts. You know far more about this than I do.

 

HB

[Shoelover]

Sorry Shoelover, crossed posts. You know far more about this than I do.

 

HB

It really does vary case to case, officer to officer. I was more thinking that as the o/p is finding this so upsetting, she would be better off being able to not worry about her daughter. If she does end up tearful it can really upset her child who may never have seen Mum crying before.

[honeybee13]

It really does vary case to case, officer to officer. I was more thinking that as the o/p is finding this so upsetting, she would be better off being able to not worry about her daughter. If she does end up tearful it can really upset her child who may never have seen Mum crying before.

 

You're quite right, SL. Thank you as ever for coming to the rescue and for your compassion, I hope we can help Cat780 to get through this.

 

HB

[Cat780]

Thank you all for replying to me,

it has helped me a lot.

 

 

Sorry for not replying sooner, i've been having a lot of panic attacks today so i thought it best to stay away for a few hours just so i can get myself together.

 

I really don't have anyone to look after my daughter as i had a huge falling out with my family after they found out some information about my childhood, called me a liar, and have disowned me.

 

 

This is what kicked off my anxiety and depression again literally the day after i found out i had got the job and signed off ESA.

 

 

Then a few weeks later i ended up getting death threats through my door saying that people were going to burn my house down with me and my family in it, to watch my back etc,

 

 

on the last day of September, i got physically and verbally assaulted by my sisters partner in the communal yard when i took my bins out.

 

 

That's the reason i had to give up work, i just couldn't face anyone anymore.

Police were involved but nothing has come of it, same with the housing people.

 

Sorry for digressing,

it's just easier to give the back story rather than me trying to be cryptic about why i gave up work and why my daughter will have to come.

 

I've messaged another law firm to see if they can help,

they specialise in this type of thing too and also do free consultations and drop ins, so hopefully they'll get back to me soon.

 

Honestly, thank you so much for talking to me and getting me out of the "i'm going to prison" mindset.

 

 

I've done nothing but hug and cuddle my daughter all day, she really is my world x

[Shoelover]

Start gathering any evidence of what you said In your last post as it is important.

 

I would phone the officer and explain the situation with your daughter before hand.

 

If you take a solicitor they can ask for pre interview disclosure so you know what the issue is when you go in.,

 

Glad you have stopped worrying about prison, it will not happen.

 

Do something fun with your daughter today to take your mind off things.

[Cat780]

Just a little update:

 

 

I've managed to get hold of a solicitor and she's been so lovely.

 

 

She's checking to see if i'm entitled to free legal help,

once that's done she's going to call the DWP to ask what the IUC is all about and then she'll be coming with me to the interview.

 

 

So thank you for all of your advice and reassurance,

 

 

i'm now not fearing going to prison lol.

 

 

Fingers crossed it gets sorted at the interview and i'll let you know everything soon.

 

 

Thank you x

[Bazooka Boo]

Good for you, hope it all gets sorted for you, keep us informed..

[Shoelover]

Glad you have support...