arriva trains wales .lied about boarding station with no ticket . Advice needed

[Shaunartis]

Hi there , yesterday on the 1/07/2016 , i boarded a train from llansamlet to Cardiff , there was no conductor on the train ,

 

as I arrived in Cardiff I had to go to the unpaid fair's desk , as I was there about to buy my ticket I had a stupid moment of madness and told the guy at the ticket office that I boarded on Bridgend but he caught me out by saying that there were ticket tolls at Bridgend and I completely froze ,

 

I then got taken by a transport investigations officer she gave me a quick interview and asked me questions in regards to what just happened , I told her I was sorry and that it was a stupid thing to do and I even offered to pay for the fair there and then but she said no because the repercussions of this will be a lot more ' hefty' .

 

The lady told me that I would receive a letter which I must respond to giving my side of the story , I have seen many posts where people have been summoned to court . Has anyone got any advice for me when I respond to this letter in what I should say or do should I attach a payment invoice covering the fair and the admin fee ? ,

 

I have a feeling cause I lied to them they are going to take me to court no matter what I say . If I do go to court what would the outcome be ?

 

I have never had an encounter in this manner with the Arriva trains wales before this is the first time I have done something like this . I have encountered with the police for something silly in December which I had a fine for will that effects me if this goes to court ?

 

I was really idiotic to even lie about where I boarded and it is something that I would not do again . If anyone can help me out and advise me I would greatly appreciate it .

 

Thanks

Shaun

Edited July 2, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. The forum experts should be along later.

 

I've moved you to the public transport forum and left you a link to follow from the Welcome one.

 

My best, HB

[Shaunartis]

Hi there , where would i find the link ?

[honeybee13]

Hi there , where would i find the link ?

 

I left a redirect in the Welcome forum, but as you're posting on the thread, you must have found it.

 

Here's a link in case you need it.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?466555-Transport-Investigations-issue-arriva-trains-wales-..-Advice-needed&p=4918722#post4918722

 

HB

[dx100uk]

you might have seen many posts where people get summons

but very few where it actually happens.

as its settled out side of court with no lasting issues

 

 

silly mistake, but that's all it is

 

 

await the letter

and stop panicking.

 

 

nothing to really worry about.

[honeybee13]

I agree with dx, wait for the letter and then write back truthfully. You don't enclose money, you need to see what they think of your letter.

 

Let us know when it arrives and we'll give you some ideas of what you can say in your letter.

 

HB

[Shaunartis]

Hi everybody .

I have had my letter from TIL .

 

 

They have stated in the letter that there is sufficient evidence to prosecute

either under the railway bylaws 2005 or the regulation of railways act 1889 .

 

 

After reading through the letters my offence comes under the regulation of railways act ,

it even says a term of imprisonment and that is something that I don't want .

 

This is the first time I have ever done anything like this

what could be the possible outcome of all this ,

 

 

i did try and pay a shorter fare it was just a complete moment of madness that i regret ,

 

 

can anyone help me with a response please as I am going into slight panic here !!

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

No need to panic, let's take this slowly.

 

Is this the first letter from Arriva trains, asking for your version of what happened please? And are you able to scan it up or type it for us, leaving out any personal details?

 

HB

[Shaunartis]

Hi there , this is what the letter states ...

The report of this incident indicates that sufficient evidence does exist to warrant a prosecution in accordance with the current legislation.

This file is presently with our prosecutions team who are considering whether to issue a summons for the inclusion in forthcoming Magistrates Courts list. These considerations may include whether any charge should allege an offence against Railyway Byelaws (2005) or , The Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

 

In any successful prosecution, we will ask the Magistrates to award the costs and compensation in favour of the rail company. This will be in addition to any fine that the Magistrates seek to impose.

 

If I do not receive any written representation from you within 21 days of the date of this letter , a Summons to a magistrates court hearing may be issued without further notice to you.

 

Does anyone know which is the best way to reply to this letter ? I know i deliberately avoided paying the full train fare by stating i came from a shorter stop . I did admit to the investigating officer that i was silly and i also did offer to pay the full fare at the time . If this does go to court what would the outcome be anyone have an idea ?

[honeybee13]

Thank you for this.

 

So now you need to write a letter explaining why you did what you did. As we always say, be honest and if it's true, say it was a momentary lapse of judgement. Express sincere remorse if that's how you feel and ask if they will allow you to reach an administrative settlement with them. This is an out of court settlement.

 

Edit: also add that you promise always to have a valid ticket in future.

 

If you want to put something together, we can help you to refine it, but it needs to be in your words. Try to keep to the point and don't waffle.

 

HB

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Addition.

[dx100uk]

excellent advise above from HB.

 

 

keep your letter very short and brief

 

 

and donr worry about prison ands silly stuff like that

doesn't apply to you

all you have their is a std template letter they send to everyone

no matter if its £1 or £10,000 involved.

 

 

should be easy to get an out of court settlement without anything bad going forward to spoil your employment etc etc

[Shaunartis]

Hi there everybody . Below is the letter i am going to send to TIL .. is this okay . Thanks

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

TIL Reference: TIL : ,,,,,,

 

I am writing to you in response to your letter regarding the incident that occurred on 01/07/2016 in connection to a journey that was made between Llansamlet and Cardiff Central for which unfortunately I had not shown a valid ticket.

 

 

I would firstly like to profusely apologise for my actions, which I deeply regret, I had not previously planned to travel without a ticket and this was an embarrassing mistake that I had not indented on making.

 

My decision was extremely foolish and disrespectful to current legislation and my behaviour was out of character, as I believe myself to be a hard working and responsible young man who holds respect for regulations. I have travelled regularly by train for many years and have never disregarded regulations in the past and I do not intend to repeat the foolish mistake of doing so in the future.

 

I would like to apologise for my offence and kindly ask you to consider reviewing my case, I have thoroughly read the information you have provided in relation to my responsibilities when I travel by rail and important information regarding National Railways Byelaws (2005) and the regulation of railways act (1989).

 

I am an upstanding and respectful member of my community and I did not intend on causing an offence, I deeply regret my behaviour and actions I would like to again apologise for this and ask you to consider my sincere apology.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Mr Shaun William Artis

[unclebulgaria67]

If you don't mind me offering a slightly critical note. You don't actually state why you did not have a ticket for the journey. You just say it was a mistake. If i were reading this letter i would iterpret it as saying your mistake was being caught. No mention of how you ended up on a train without paying. E.g forgot to pick up wallet, so had no money.

 

If this is a regular journey you take, do you have evidence of buying tickets for previous journeys ? If so, you might want to provide this evidence, so they can see you normally pay.

[Shaunartis]

It was a silly mistake and plain stupidity.I basically tried to say i got off at Bridgend so that I could have a cheaper train fare.I don't regularly make this journey as it was a one off.Thanks for the advice , How do you think i should apply that within the letter ?

[unclebulgaria67]

It was a silly mistake and plain stupidity.I basically tried to say i got off at Bridgend so that I could have a cheaper train fare.I don't regularly make this journey as it was a one off.Thanks for the advice , How do you think i should apply that within the letter ?

 

So you had a confused mind or was not feeling well ?

 

If you don't normally act like this, there must be a reason ?

 

Your letter sounds like you regret being caught and you have found a letter online which tries to explain away your action quoting various. I think you need to explain that you don't normally use tbe train and it was a one off journey. You were tired, confused, feeling unwell and made a mistake ( whatever explains your actions).

[dx100uk]

and offer to pay any reasonable admin fees and equivalent sums to a fine to avoid

possible employment etc issue were you to get a conviction

[Shaunartis]

Hi everybody ,

 

i have had a response from Transport Investigations please find the letter attached i have taken a picture.

 

Iit looks like they will take me to court for the incident ,

 

i know every case is different but does anyone know what the outcomes are when you go to court ?

Like how much the fine is etc?

 

In slight panic mode at the moment ,

i am not to sure but can anyone tell me what act they intend to prosecute me under ,

should i write back to them and ask them to consider my case again ?

I have been caught bang to rights so not sure if it is worth it .

arriva response.pdf

Edited July 30, 2016 by dx100uk
attachment redacted & converted to pdf - dx

[dx100uk]

read it carefully it says may numerous times not will anywhere...

 

 

the act is listed in the title and the body of the letter too.

 

 

what that letter actually says is your grovelling letter was not good enough.

try again.

[Shaunartis]

I thought i grovelled pretty well in my previous response to them. Any tips on how i should reply this time ? I am a student at the moment and would struggle to pay a hefty fine , what would be the outcome of i do go to court? This is my first offense in regards to any transport issue

[ASIIndustries]

At this stage you will be looking at £500+ fine plus criminal record if you choose court or an admin fee between £100 - £200.

[Shaunartis]

At this stage you will be looking at £500+ fine plus criminal record if you choose court or an admin fee between £100 - £200.

 

What £500 even though i am a unemployed student ? In my second letter should i offer a amount as an out of court settlement?

[dx100uk]

no you don't specify an amount

simply that you wish to resolve the matter by an out of court settlement

meeting any reasonable admin fees and equiv fines

should the matter had gone to court.

 

 

dx

[unclebulgaria67]

no you don't specify an amount

simply that you wish to resolve the matter by an out of court settlement

meeting any reasonable admin fees and equiv fines

should the matter had gone to court.

 

 

dx

 

A question comes to mind.

 

Do they operate differently in Wales to London/south east England ?

 

In London they might accept the administrative fee route as a way to resolve these matters, as they have too many cases to deal with, not enough staff and court time available to prosecute. But in Wales i should imagine they have far fewer cases to manage and they might prosecute 99% of the fare evasions detected. Therefore unless there are very good reasons for not buying a ticket, which would be broken ticket machines, no ticket shop open at departing station, guard on train not accepting payment etc, then i should imagine they would just prosecute.

 

While the OP can ask for a admin fee resolution and ask not to be prosecuted, if they have valid reasons why they could not buy a ticket they should concentrate on that.

[honeybee13]

To add to what dx and UB have said, I believe what the TOCs are looking for is genuine remorse and a change in behaviour in the future.

 

Edit: I found this from Old-CodJA on another thread, post #50.

 

'Offer to pay any fares due and all of the reasonable costs that company have incurred in dealing with your actions and ask if this can be accepted as an alternative to Court action.

 

The company do not have to agree, but might choose to do so.'

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462876-Govia-Notice-Of-Intention-to-Prosecute-**RESOLVED-OUT-OF-COURT**&p=4891950#post4891950

 

HB

Edited July 31, 2016 by honeybee13
Addition.

[BazzaS]

 

While the OP can ask for a admin fee resolution and ask not to be prosecuted, if they have valid reasons why they could not buy a ticket they should concentrate on that.

 

They shouldn't concentrate on that.

Whatever reasons they had not to have bought a ticket up to that point can be viewed as irrelevant by the TOC, as, even if no offence had been committed prior to that point, the offence was made out when they lied about their starting station in an attempt to pay a "short fare".

 

The OP may have been able to claim any of the protections within Bylaw 18 (so if there were no ticket facilities at the first station, they'd approached the on train staff and their ticket machine wasn't working and they'd said "OK to pay at destination"), and by offering a short fare they'd still have committed the offence, even if they had a (Bylaw 18) cast-iron defence up until that point.