Evidence provided re signs - ** WON AT TRIBUNAL **

[mariejader]

Hi I received a parking ticket mid December because I parked in a council car park with out a ticket.

 

The reason why I parked without a ticket was there was signs on the road saying free parking today it was a free day of parking due to Christmas shopping. (I have photographic evidence of the sign advising this)

 

I appealed the charge and sent the council a copy of my photo of the sign, they rejected this and said I have to wait for a notice to owner letter to come out before I can appeal which could take up to 28 days, (this is now nearly three weeks over the 28 days period).

 

My question is do I contact the council again and say I have not received the notice or keep quiet, I am just worried they will take it further and say I have not replied to them.

[Michael Browne]

Just wait. Councils are allowed up to 6 months from the date of the original pcn to send an NtO.

[Jamberson]

Have you moved house in the last year?

[mariejader]

Thanks for the replays it turned up the next day, now to complete it, but can't seem to find any template letters

[mariejader]

Hi there,

back in December I was on my way out to my works Christmas party,

it was a busy evening and I struggled to find a parking place close to the venue

I ended up looking for a place in the local authority car park.

 

I noticed a sign with a big arrow pointing to a car park advertising free parking as it was classed as a Christmas shopping day,

so I parked my car and exited the car park via a pedestrian exit the opposite end to where I parked my vehicle,

 

 

as I left the car park I noticed another car with a parking fine on the window

which made me wondering why it would receive a ticket on a free day,

so as I exited I took a few steps back towards the entrance to photograph the sign advertising free parking.

 

On my return from the party I also had a ticket on my car,

I appealed it and said that it was advertised as free parking and enclosed the photograph.

 

 

I had a quick response saying that the council would be rejecting my appeal

as there was additional signs advising the free parking was not in the car park that I used but in their staff car park,

 

 

they also provided another photo of the additional signs placed on half on and half off the pavement,

their photo was taken in day light with no traffic on the roads,

 

 

when I parked it was busy and dark and the position of their signs were easily obstructed

by vehicles entering and exiting the car parks which I have proved in another photograph taken at night

approx the same time I parked.

 

Now this is the strange bit

the photo the council has provided I believe is an old photo as the shrubs in the photograph I took seemed to be a lot bigger,

now bearing in mind I took mine at night

today I went back and I am positive that my first thoughts are correct.

 

I have written out my reply to the notice to owner asking for them to supply me with the details of the photograph they have supplied and have also said that their photo does not represent the time and road conditions at the time of my parking,

 

 

can anyone give me more of an idea of how to fight this

as it seems very unfair if they are using old evidence to make a case against me.

 

Thank you in advance

[Jamberson]

Firstly, be aware that you only get one shot at filing a formal representation. You need to spell out the grounds of your appeal - if you use it up by writing in asking them questions about their photos, you will be missing your chance.

 

What this seems to boil down to is the issue of adequate signage. Can you post some images up on here, and also give us the exact location.

 

Incidentally, why has it taken so long to get to this stage? If you received the PCN in December then appealed it, I'd expect you to get a decision in January, and an NTO a couple of weeks later. It's now the end of March - is the NTO still current?

[mariejader]

Firstly thank you for your reply regarding the NTO, I only received it last week!

 

Photos are attached.

 

The night time photos are mine the daylight photo is the evidence the council provided me telling me there was signs, as you can see from the middle photo there is no change of seeing these signs if traffic is on the highway.

[Jamberson]

So I'm guessing that behind that car which is emerging from the left, is a sign pointing away from the car park saying "Free Parking"?

 

I really don't hold out much hope for this one. If your argument only boils down to the other sign, before the mini-roundabout, I wouldn't think that's misleading enough to win an appeal. There must be at least two parking areas where it points, right? The one you used and the one which was free?

 

Can you give us the exact location, to clarify the road layout?

[mariejader]

Here is a aerial view of the area

 

 

I have marked where the sign that I saw and the entrance and exit I used with a X

 

 

the area marked Y are the position that the council say the signs were placed at,

which is past the entrance of the car park I used,

 

 

please see the second picture that I provided in the set of three

you cannot see the signs,

 

 

also the carpark they are claiming was free on that day is their staff car park

and not one that is used on a daily basis for general public pay and display.

[mariejader]

I will also add that the exit is the same place as the entrance and it is the only entrance and exit points in this car park for vehicles.

[Jamberson]

What you are saying is that you only saw signs prior to your arrival at the car park, pointing in the general direction. You don't claim there are any signs pointing into the car park you used. And in fact, the council is also saying there were no signs pointing into the car park you used.

 

The council are saying there were other signs, pointing somewhere else, but you are saying you didn't see them at the time - so in effect, it's as if they weren't there.

 

Since your only defence seems to be that you saw only the initial sign pointing towards the road the car park was on, it's unlikely that you will win the appeal. You are basically arguing that the first sign before the roundabout misled you into thinking the car park you used did not require you to purchase a ticket. I don't think that's a very strong argument, as that sign did not give any particular location. It may have been true that you were misled, and worth an informal appeal (which you tried) but the odds are against. You have nothing to lose by soldiering on now, but I don't see any real get-out on this one.

[mariejader]

Just to update you I did take this to tribunal and have WON my appeal.

[honeybee13]

Well done you. I've altered your thread title, thank you for letting us know.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about what happened please? It will help other people who find themselves in the same position as you.

 

HB