millymollymoo V goldfish

[bill-k]

Correct on all counts, Bill! especially the criminal bit - I like that one, I like it a lot!!

 

I'll reply re the poor overpowered 1275GT (which finally blew up at Snetterton) soon.

 

W

Cheers, Westy - glad you like it. Look forward to the 1275GT autopsy report later !!

[tamadus]

HELP!!!!!!

 

 

right today have received their final response not budging on fullcharges + 8% stat.

 

This is part of their reply:

 

Having reviewed your correspondence, our final offer still stands and we will not be offering the compound interest rate on your default fees. I must reiterate that 8% is the highest interest award that a court would offer on the disputed amount. (wrong!!!)

 

Very true 8% is the highest amount a court can award, it's called sec 69 interest. At leats they got that bit right.

Please be aware that the agrrement that acardholder signs gives Goldfish/Morgan Stanley the right (oh yeah!!!) to charge both simple and compound interest on amounts outstanding on the account. The agreement to these terms and conditions does not mean (so wheres it written then!!!) that the cardholder has a right to charge compound interest on any amounts that they feel are unjustly debited to the account;nor that these amounts should be reimbursed at the cash interest rate.

 

Wow 2 things they got right, they can charge whatever interest they want. That is until ac ourt orders it to be extortionate :o

 

Hey they are getting good, the agreement doesnt give the consumer the right to charge compounded interest or the cash interest rate. Something called the right of recipricality gives the customer the right. (assuming I spent that and worded it correctly)

 

---------------------------------------------

 

So how about that then, inother words we can unlawfully take your cash, reinvest it and make tons of money and we may have held on to it for 6 years, but tough as we have NOT put an exclusion to you claiming your money back , cos we are not clever enough and we can say what we like and set the terms for USING YOUR MONEY.

 

Their ideas in a nutshell

 

What do you think about that and could you help with aresponse as I do not want to be rude .(feel like it though)

 

 

Milly x

 

Milly file your claim using their contractual rate of interest and quote it's the reciprocal rate of interest. Do NOT claim sec 69 interest at 8%.

Every claim I have made has been bassed on reciprocal interest and every one has paid out.

Also send a sec 78 request in for the agreement, T&C and statement of account as stipulated under sec 78 of the CCA. That should make them start to think.

[millymollymoo]

Milly file your claim using their contractual rate of interest and quote it's the reciprocal rate of interest. Do NOT claim sec 69 interest at 8%.

 

Every claim I have made has been bassed on reciprocal interest and every one has paid out.

 

Also send a sec 78 request in for the agreement, T&C and statement of account as stipulated under sec 78 of the CCA. That should make them start to think.

 

Thanks tamadus:) CCA has been sent recorded. Just one thing concerning naming it as the reprirocal rate, what should I replace below on POC? Perhaps you could help me rephrase this bit:

 

d) The Claimant claims compounded contractual interest at a rate of xx per annum from the date of each transaction to xx January2007, which is xxxx The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of xxxx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of xxx

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the Goldfish mastercard. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account

 

I hope this bit was ok originally because this is what was used on Capital One POC and that is at court wait for their acknowledgement:|

 

I only offered 8% stat in alternative on that and will on this. Should I also offer the lower rate or is that too many choices???

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Correct on all counts, Bill! especially the criminal bit - I like that one, I like it a lot!!

 

I'll reply re the poor overpowered 1275GT (which finally blew up at Snetterton) soon.

 

W

 

I like the criminal default bit too. Soz about your car:eek: !

 

milly X:)

[millymollymoo]

Looks good to me Milly. Nice to see Westy watching over you. Good guy - but don't get him (or me) talking about cars !!

 

You may not need it, but I believe the CCA request is worth a quid. They have 12 days to produce, then they are indefault of the CCA. Another 30 days, and they are in full (criminal, I believe) breach of the Act. If you're in court after that, then they are in trouble, methinks !! :o

 

 

Bill I hope they never send it, more fuel to the fire. Also, I want the t**t arrested and put in prison:D

 

I have a rather nice car , services cost a b****y fortune though!

 

Milly X

[tamadus]

Thanks tamadus:) CCA has been sent recorded. Just one thing concerning naming it as the reprirocal rate, what should I replace below on POC? Perhaps you could help me rephrase this bit:

 

d) The Claimant claims compounded contractual interest at a rate of xx per annum from the date of each transaction to xx January2007, which is xxxx The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of xxxx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of xxx

 

The claimant claims interest at the defendants contractual rate of XX% per annum from the date of each transaction up to xx/xx/2007, which isXXXX and thereafter at a daily rate of xx up the date of settlement. In the alternative the claimant claims interest persuant to sec 69 of the County Courts Act at a rate of 8% per annum, totalling xxxx and thereafter at a daily rate of xx.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the Goldfish mastercard. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account

 

I hope this bit was ok originally because this is what was used on Capital One POC and that is at court wait for their acknowledgement:|

 

I only offered 8% stat in alternative on that and will on this. Should I also offer the lower rate or is that too many choices???

 

Milly X

 

Milly,

 

That looks like your claiming interest twice, which wont be allowed. try my red bit as it makes it a bit clearer and allows the claim up to the date of settlement not judgement.

[bill-k]

Milly,

 

That looks like your claiming interest twice, which wont be allowed. try my red bit as it makes it a bit clearer and allows the claim up to the date of settlement not judgement.

Tam - this is confusing me, as it seems that Angry Cat, and I also believe Natwesttookmymoney are claiming, or have claimed this "double-layer" interest. But I'm not sure if I understand what they're doing. If you have time....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-524279.html

[tamadus]

Wow now that does surprise me,

 

I always understood the basic gist was to restore the claimant to the same position as prior to the charges, and that a court would not allow any form of profit to be made from it.

 

hmmm if they managed it they either got lucky or a lot of us have missed something important.

[millymollymoo]

Oops this is as I said in at court at the mo. it was similar to mindzais bit actually. Have I blooped. The bit on the further total was when the daily rate gets added at settlement, well thats what I meant.

 

Help!!!

 

Milly X:)

[tamadus]

Oops this is as I said in at court at the mo. it was similar to mindzais bit actually. Have I blooped. The bit on the further total was when the daily rate gets added at settlement, well thats what I meant.

 

Help!!!

 

Milly X:)

 

 

Ah it can read that way too

ignore me as the old f*** I am at times lmao

 

Dave xx

[millymollymoo]

Cheeky monkey, Yours is excellent though and will use this against the Golfish as it is clearer. Tam email me anytime:D

 

Milly X:)

[millymollymoo]

Oh an that applies to you bill as you are another favourite of mine;)

 

Milly X

[bill-k]

Thanks Milly - nice to know !!!

 

Just a little tweak, not important, but if it is compound interest, it cannot be expressed as a daily rate, as that implies a constant, or flat amount. A lot of contractual claimants are putting the interim increase clause thus:

 

...and thereafter at the same rate up the date of settlement.

Worth a few quid on large and/or old claims.

[millymollymoo]

Hi bill thanks I will be amending as I have actually made a booboo with POc at court with Cap One, somehow this bit I have highlighted in red is on there and shouldnt of been and I am having a cold sweat now:(

 

d) The Claimant claims compound interest at the contractual rateof xx% per annum from the date of each transaction to xx January 2007, which is £xx.xx The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xx,xx at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of xx.xx

of 8%

 

 

I can see it being thrown ot as it does not make sense.

 

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

This follows the section above:

e) The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the Premier Visa Card. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

f) Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, then in the alternative to 5.d),the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of each transaction to xx January 2007 which is £xx. The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xxx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxp

Milly X

[tamadus]

I wouildnt panic too much Milly as its so out of text that it's an obvious error in typing, but give them a call anyway.

 

I also go along with Bill's little bit about the same rate to date of settlement.

[tamadus]

This follows the section above:

 

e) The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the Premier Visa Card. The Claimant holds that this applies to drawings by the Defendant as well as the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

f) Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, then in the alternative to 5.d),the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of each transaction to xx January 2007 which is £xx. The Claimant further claims interest on the resulting total of £xxx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of £xxp

 

 

Milly X

 

That bit looks fine ot me

[natwesttookmymoney]

Tam - this is confusing me, as it seems that Angry Cat, and I also believe Natwesttookmymoney are claiming, or have claimed this "double-layer" interest. But I'm not sure if I understand what they're doing. If you have time....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-524279.html

 

Quick responses time this evening - stuff to do, people to see.

 

I'm NOT 'double-layering' and I'm very doubtful that such an approach will work, personally.

 

What I am doing is claiming the charges plus authorised overdraft interest rate as my actual losses, plus statutory in addition.

 

I have been overdrawn - or been required to take out a loan - for the whole period under consideration (6 years). therefore, every time I've been charged, I've been charged interest on the charge.

 

With me?

 

Anyway, charges + interest at authorised rate = demonstrable loss.

 

Claim = demonstrable loss + statutory interest, which is one's 'compensation' as it were (that's a long-established principle).

 

Although I'm a long way down the road with this, I have come to the conclusion that 'unauthorised' interest rate, with no claim for statutory interest, is actually the best route to go and is justifiable on mutuality and reciprocity grounds.

 

I also believe that if you try to claim two layers of interest - authorised rate plus unauthorised rate in addition, for example - you're batting on a very sticky wicket. I don't think it's justifiable as you could be seen to be seeking to enrich yourself. Which we don't want to be doin.

 

JMHO

 

Westy

[natwesttookmymoney]

Milly

 

Suggest that, if you haven't already sent in the POCs, you consider the following:

 

e) The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest currently payable on the Premier Visa Card. The Defendant has levied this rate on the charges debited to her account and accordingly claims this in addition to the charges listed in [the schedule attached hereto] (or whatever you've called your spreadsheet) The Claimant also claims that this rate is justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s rate of interest which would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Anyone else got a viewpoint?

 

W

[bill-k]

Anyway, charges + interest at authorised rate = demonstrable loss.

Claim = demonstrable loss + statutory interest, which is one's 'compensation' as it were (that's a long-established principle).

OK, thanks Westy - I was never that clear on your earlier explanation of this, so thanks for making it crystal. So, you are only claiming the proportion of interest that they actually charged you each month, which pertained to the penalties they had charged you.

E.g., you had a penalty of £20, were O/D by £120, and charged £12 interest for that month. So you are claiming back £2 of that interest(charged on the £20), etc. etc. each month (plus of course the original penalty) - plus 8% statutory on that. So, you are not actually charging the bank (by claiming) any contractual interest on the penalty charges at all, then ?

If that be so, then I apologise for misunderstanding you earlier, but it looks like you are now saying that you would claim contractual interest, if you were starting over again with your claim. Did I get that right ?

If I have finally understood, then that makes my world a tidier place again !!

[natwesttookmymoney]

Now I'm getting a headache - was it that confusing? it appears so!

 

OK, thanks Westy - I was never that clear on your earlier explanation of this, so thanks for making it crystal. So, you are only claiming the proportion of interest that they actually charged you each month, which pertained to the penalties they had charged you.

It's even easier than that. As I have been in o/d and/or in loan for the whole period, I enter each charge on my spreadsheet, the date it was charged, and apply interest to it at the authorised rate. That way, I don't have to apportion or proportion - which gets very complex anyway, as the charges may have been charged at different times through the whole month.

E.g., you had a penalty of £20, were O/D by £120, and charged £12 interest for that month. So you are claiming back £2 of that interest(charged on the £20), etc. etc. each month (plus of course the original penalty) - plus 8% statutory on that. So, you are not actually charging the bank (by claiming) any contractual interest on the penalty charges at all, then ?

 

Er....yes. No. Sometimes. I think I am claiming contractual interest, at the 'authorised rate'. But I'm claiming it as a demonstrable loss, with 8% in addition.

If that be so, then I apologise for misunderstanding you earlier, but it looks like you are now saying that you would claim contractual interest, if you were starting over again with your claim. Did I get that right ? Yes, you did. I certainly would. It's simpler, more straightforward and gets more money back. That's the tkind o9f triple-header I like!

If I have finally understood, then that makes my world a tidier place again !!

 

As neat as hospital corners, I trust.

 

W

[bill-k]

Now I'm getting a headache - was it that confusing? it appears so!

As neat as hospital corners, I trust.

W

...and as bland as hospital food - just how I needed it !!

Yes, indeedy, Westy, and thanks again for your patience !!

[millymollymoo]

Hi guys , westy I havent filed Goldfish yet, but did you see the stupid mistake I have made on Cap One's that is deemed served:eek: . 'of 8%' , I checked the POC and it not right by the daily rate figure as shown above but on its own on the next line referring to nothing. What a idiot:rolleyes: Am worried:(

 

Milly X

[millymollymoo]

Went to local county court and filed today:D

 

Milly X:)

[natwesttookmymoney]

Went to local county court and filed today:D

 

Milly X:)

 

WELL DONE MILLY!

 

Braveheart ain't got nuthin on you, babe!

 

W