oakwood home loans ltd Mortgage arrears - payments made show as AP on CRA file

[Ell-enn]

It will still be valid - you would have needed to apply to the court to have it lifted, but usually you have to make 6 - 9 payments in a row before the lender will agree to lift it.

[petelyn]

I Ellen the reply i had from mortgage company was that they would require a lump sum payment or they will still be going ahead with eviction.

which we cannot offer,so it has to be N244 now.

How many copies do i take to the court with my aplication please Ellen

Edited January 12, 2012 by petelyn

[Ell-enn]

You only take one copy of your N244 application to the court but you need to keep a copy of it for yourself to refer to in the hearing.

 

 

Do you need help with the statement for Q.10 of the form?

 

I have affixed an N244 form to this post.

n244_0400[1].pdf

[petelyn]

I hope this is ok Ellen,this is what i have put in for Q10 hope it is o.k

 

unfortunately Mr thomas has been unable to work for the last 6 months due to illness

and also Mrs Thomas has been in and out of work due to her suspected bowel cancer problems,

 

 

this has meant that we only had one wage coming into household,

 

 

Mr Thomas is self employed and was told he could not get any benefits at all.

 

We have explained to the mortgage company that we are back in work on a full time basis and are in a position going forward to make our monthly payment and also a payment off the arrears.

i have sought advice and understand we should be given reasonable time to do this.

 

I am about to leave now to put in the N244 form do you think Q10 answer is o.k ?

i have also done a 2 page statement of facts,however my doctor's letter will not be ready until Monday,i will have to take it with me on day of hearing.

[Ell-enn]

Have you affixed a budget sheet to show the judge that you are able to afford the payments? You should also quote the Norgan case law

[petelyn]

Yes i have put a upto date budget form in and have also qouted the Norgan case law.

They have given me a date Tuesday the 17/01/12 at 10-00 am.fingers crossed Ellen

Edited January 12, 2012 by petelyn

[petelyn]

Hi Ellen been to court and lost the case,

 

judge was very abrupt and did not take any notice of what we had to say.

 

He said he wasn't prepared to stop eviction on the grounds of ill health

and because i said the property was in negative equity he said he cant see the mortgage company ever getting their money from us

 

 

,i asked if we could appeal and he said he would not grant an appeal.

 

we have now applied for an appeal hearing with a circuit judge,

 

 

this has now been given to us for Friday the 20th of January,

 

 

can you please give us advice on what to expect.

Edited January 17, 2012 by petelyn

[Lea_HTH]

On what grounds have you submitted the appeal to the CJ? You would normally only do so without the permission of the DJ if you had good reason - such good reason being that the DJ had made an error in law or in fact in deciding your case. From reading your thread, it appears neither error in law or fact has been made.

 

You ought to have waited for Ell-enn to complete the relevant section on the N244, judges don't like rambling two page statements that basically say everything but what they should do - which in your case was that there had been issues with payment due to unemployment and illness, but these issues have been resolved and both you and your wife are in full time employment and can afford to pay the CMI plus X towards the arrears. Pointing that out to the judge would have been sufficient to allow you a further opportunity to stay in the property.

 

It is doubtful that the CJ is going to make a finding that differs from the DJ - in fact, it is merely his job to look at what the DJ decided and decide if the DJ was correct or not, and on the face of it, it looks like the DJ is correct. 9k of arrears plus a mortgage already in negative equity means the security for the loan has gone.

 

Your best chance of success would be to substantially reduce the arrears before the next hearing and hope that the CJ will allow a DJ to re-hear the case on that basis.

 

For clarity, a Circuit Judge hearing an appeal for a judgment made by a District Judge, will look at whether the correct decision was made at the date of the hearing. The judgment can be overturned if it was incorrect in law.

 

You ought to contact Shelter or CAB, or a local law centre to see if someone can represent you at the hearing on Friday. Or check whether the court will have duty advisers available on the day.

 

If you are able to reduce the arrears in any way, do so - even if it's just a few hundred pounds, and ensure the judge knows that you are committed to not falling behind again.

 

In addition make contact with the tenancy protection team at your local authority - you will need to do this tomorrow morning FIRST THING. Explain the situation and ask whether they can assist you with reducing the arrears - there are funds available to assist people in your circumstances, but each local authority administers it in their own way - so you will have to contact them to find out if you are eligible. If you can put in an application, get the TPT to write a letter confirming this and present this to the CJ on Friday.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Lea_HTH

[petelyn]

The judge did not even go through my budget form,

 

 

i explained my illness and gave him my doctors letter saying i was unable to work from June to November 2011,

 

 

he said if he listened to everybody's illness's that came into court, what would the world come too,

 

 

he said i am not prepared to stop the eviction,

he just was not interested in the fact that we were both back in work

and could afford the payment plus an additional £200.00 p month ?

 

 

So are you saying this appeal is pointless and i've wasted another £135.00 which we could not really afford.

[Lea_HTH]

The judge did not even go through my budget form,i explained my illness and gave him my doctors letter saying i was unable to work from June to November 2011, he said if he listened to everybody's illness's that came into court, what would the world come two,he said i am not prepared to stop the eviction

 

Is there something that you have left out of the information you gave Ell-enn during the days she has been assisting you? It is very unusual for a judge to ignore medical evidence of illness related to an issue to repay the mortgage. Even with previous stays, genuine ill-health would be a reason for missed payments if it affected income.

 

,he just was not interested in the fact that we were both back in work and could afford the payment plus an additional £200.00 p month ?

Are you claiming that he did not even entertain this information?

 

So are you saying this appeal is pointless and i've wasted another £135.00 which we could not really afford.

 

 

To be frank I strongly suspect that there is information you have withheld in the posts that you have made here,

and I base this on knowledge of having had multiple cases in court for arrears far more substantial than your arrears,

with far less time left on the term of the mortgage and with negative equity on the property, and a lesser amount payable towards those arrears,

where the ruling has still gone in the defendant's favour.

 

 

Either the full facts have not been presented here, or the judge felt your explanations were weak and invalid.

 

If you choose not to give full information, then unfortunately the advice you are given may not cover your specific circumstances.

 

Anyway, my earlier post today gives you some direction on what to do next.

 

Post back tomorrow once you have spoken to the tenancy protection team at your local authority.

[petelyn]

I have given you all the facts and the truth,

 

 

the arrears are £9000,

term left on loan 20 years,

 

 

i offered on my budget sheet £200 on top of mortgage payment,

the judge did not go through my budget sheet with us or affordibility,

 

 

whether he looked at this before the hearing i dont know ,

he said due to the previous history on the account he could not see us ever paying the mortgage company back

and he said i am definitely not stopping the eviction and i am not granting any appeal.

 

He said i cant make a decision on pity.

The duty solicitor said that judge has not taken affordibility into account

or the fact you are both back in work full time.

 

This is our appeal defence dont know if it is enough grounds to succeed.

Edited January 18, 2012 by petelyn

[Ell-enn]

Did you get any help with your appeal wording ?

[petelyn]

yes the duty solicitor put on seperate sheet for appeal.

1. affordibility not taken into account

2. pay slips for my wife which we were not given an oppurtunity to submit

3. would not listen to our case.

 

Hi Ellen i have managed from a relative to get £3000 ,do you think this will help if i take it to the hearing ?

[Ell-enn]

If it's a loan from the relative the judge will assume you have to pay that back which obviously increases your monthly outgoings. Is the duty solicitor going to be at your appeal ? would be a good idea to ask his advice on that.

[petelyn]

I dont know if the duty solicitor will be there.but the money is from my mother and we dont have to pay it back at all.

[Lea_HTH]

I have given you all the facts and the truth, the arrears is £9000, term left on loan 20 years, i offered on my budget sheet £200 on top of mortgage payment, the judge did not go through my budget sheet with us or affordibility, whether he looked at this before the hearing i dont know , he said due to the previous history on the account he could not see us ever paying the mortgage company back and he said i am definetly not stopping the eviction and i am not granting any appeal.

He said i cant make a decision on pity.

 

It just seems like an unlikely scenario from my experience of these types of hearing, that a judge, with a Norgan compliant offer of 200 pounds per month off arrears of 9000, with a loan term of 20 years remaining would essentially say 'get out of my court, I'm not interested'. The previous history of the account must have been pretty compelling for him to decide you couldn't afford it, when the information you were providing appeared to suggest that you could. Did you provide proof of yours and your wife's employment in the form of letters on headed paper from your respective employers?

 

The duty solicitor said that judge has not taken affordibility into account or the fact you are both back in work full time.

 

If the judge didn't bother to look at the paperwork you supplied, the income and expenditure and the amount you were offering, then clearly he did not consider affordability. But you supplied income and expenditure in order to get the hearing, so it is likely he read the file before you entered his chambers.

 

This is our appeal defence dont know if it is enough grounds to succeed.

 

If the judge didn't look at current affordability, then he's made an error in fact - if he did, and has made reference to it in his judgment, then there was no error of fact. If there was an error in fact, the CJ will allow the case to be heard again (in other words your appeal will be successful). Some CJ's go ahead and hear the case and decide on it themselves - most of them will refer the case back to a DJ to consider again.

 

Did you contact the tenancy protection team?

[petelyn]

i went to the housing options today i saw an officer there who said he would come to court with us but he stressed he is an advisor and not a legal person ,he said we will see how things turn out at the appeal and they would then advise us on our next step.

[Lea_HTH]

Your next step if your appeal fails will be to pack up and move, so the housing options officer is about as useful to your case at this stage as a chocolate teapot! Of course, if repossession goes ahead, perhaps they can help with advice on re-housing.

 

But really, the idea behind telling you to go to the local authority was for them to assess whether they could assist you with a payment from the housing protection fund. Did you ask about that?

[petelyn]

No, neither did he mention anything about HPF.

Have all authoritys got this fund if so i will ring him in the morning to ask.

Are you aware of many appeals that have succeeded with an appeal with a circuit judge.

[Lea_HTH]

No, neither did he mention anything about HPF.

Have all authoritys got this fund if so i will ring him in the morning to ask.

Are you aware of many appeals that have succeeded with an appeal with a circuit judge.

 

They do, but they administer it according to their own local policies. It is entirely possible that they have spent all of their funds available for this financial year.

 

Appeals generally succeed when there has been an error in law that is obvious, or an error in fact, that may be less obvious. You are going to be highlighting that the DJ did not consider your current circumstances and ability to pay. Make sure you have payslips for both you and your wife, but it would be far preferable to have letters on headed paper indicating that you have long term posts and detailing your actual salaries, from your employers. Payslips, you see, are past documents, not future ones.

 

You may also be suitable for mortgage rescue, but until they discuss your circumstances with you, they won't be able to advise on what is or is not an option for your particular situation.

[petelyn]

Hi we have just been given by my mother £3000 as a gift she also gave a letter to confirm this.

we spoke to mortgage company and they said they want more bank statements another budget sheet and a letter off my mother to say it is her money.

They will then send it to head office for a decision. by the time we get a reply it would be too late,as

we already supplied these things before the first hearing on Monday.

Do you think the £3K would be worth taking too court and at what stage do we offer it to the CJ.

[Lea_HTH]

Hi we have just been given by my mother £3000 as a gift she also gave a letter to confirm this.

we spoke to mortgage company and they said they want more bank statements another budget sheet and a letter off my mother to say it is her money.

They will then send it to head office for a decision. by the time we get a reply it would be too late,as

we already supplied these things before the first hearing on Monday.

Do you think the £3K would be worth taking too court and at what stage do we offer it to the CJ.

 

At this stage we don't know if the CJ himself is going to re-hear the case or whether he is just going to hear the appeal. If just the latter, then he won't be asking you for any evidence, you will provide that to the DJ who re-hears the case IF your appeal is successful.

 

If the CJ decides to re-hear the case himself after deciding you have won the appeal, then you are free to provide him with any evidence you have of being able to pay, which will include the lump sum payment.

 

You don't, however, 'offer it to the CJ' - you inform the court that your mother has given you a gift of 3k to assist you and produce the letter showing such.

 

I hope it goes well for you in court tomorrow.

[petelyn]

o.k many thanks for all your help.

[petelyn]

Hi just to let you know that the appeal went in our favour and the CJ was aboslutely brilliant and even lowered our arrears repayment.

 

Even if we had lost the case we could not fault the CJ as he was very fair and listened to our reasons fully.

 

Their solicitor even tried to change the CJ's mind after he had made his decision by bringing up our sky bill and food bill ?

 

I just could not understand how much their solicitor wanted the eviction.

 

Many thanks for all your advice.

[Ell-enn]

That's great news - you must be so relieved