2 Haringey PCN's to us but concering new onwer of car we sold that day - help

[not-a-number]

We sold a car recently

 

 

I took the buyer down to the post office and he taxed it and changed it into his name .

 

Previous to this the car was sorned

 

 

on the same day the new owner got two tickets that are in our name .

 

 

We appealed the tickets but they have refused the appeal .

 

 

They are saying we have to provide proof of change of ownership .

 

 

We have the acknowledgement from the dvla that has "Date printed" on the day after the change

and they also want an official bill of sale not a hand written one .

 

 

How would a private person have this ?

 

 

What is my next move ?

 

 

Thanks any help will be appreciated

[BankFodder]

Who is "they"?

[not-a-number]

haringey

[Jamberson]

There are various possibilities, depending on what was exchanged at the time. The process isn't as formal as you might think - you just need to convince them.

 

Things which spring to mind: Can you show money changed hands that day? Have you given them the new owner name and address for them to chase? Did you get anything signed from the buyer? Did you advise DVLA of the date of sale, and can they advise in writing the day the vehicle officially changed hands? (Not sure what you are referring to with the "date printed" thing.)

 

Also, have you tried contacting the buyer? They could feasibly be unaware of the PCNs (they didn't get any letters - you did), or at least, not dealing with them for some reason. If they are reasonable people, they might just agree to acknowledge responsibility and pay them.

 

You will need to get something for the council to go by, and if you can, you should be OK. If you can't then you would be expecting them to just take your word for it without evidence, which of course is tricky.

[not-a-number]

Thanks Jamberson We did everthing as anyone would .

Receipt, hand written of course . Not acceptable .

Sent in log book .

Made sure the car was registered to the new owner by taking them to the post office to tax it .

 

The problem stems from the exchange not being immediate at the time the car is taxed .

 

The dvla sent us an acknowledgement of change of keeper that just has a date of printing . Why can they not give a clear time and date now the tax is removed and replaced by the new owner ?

 

The new owner wouldn't get anything and they may be reasonable but why should it hinge on that .

 

Meantime we are trying to prove we did in fact change the ownership with the dvla on the date and time we say or face £400 worth of fines !

 

The car was sorned and then retaxed by the new owner this should be the evidence but there is nothing built in to the system that is precise enough .

 

How many thousands of people have this problem ?

[Jamberson]

It is a common problem. Councils have at their disposal something called a conditional transfer of liability, whereby you return the Notice to Owner ticking the box saying you were not the owner on the day, and provide them with the name and address of the owner. They then transfer liability to that person, but conditional on them agreeing. That's the route the council should take - if you have details for the buyer to give to them. I'm not sure why they didn't do it.

 

Going back to your first post, you said, "We appealed the tickets but they have refused the appeal. They are saying we have to provide proof of change of ownership. We have the acknowledgement from the dvla that has "Date printed" on the day after the change and they also want an official bill of sale not a hand written one."

 

From what you describe, they haven't actually refused the appeal but requested evidence - so it's still open at the moment. As I said, it's not as formal as it seems, and it could be that with a hand-written bill of sale, and an explanation and new owner details, they will just transfer it away for you, and the problem is solved.

 

If they refuse that, you can do three things, as I see it.

 

1. Write to or phone the owner and ask them to pay them (a long shot, I know).

2. Take the cases to adjudication and argue the case there, with all the paperwork you have

3. And this is what I would try first, phone the council and discuss the situation with them. You've done nothing improper, they have nothing to gain or lose by transferring liability, so there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to have a constructive discussion and sort things out. If it doesn't work out, then options 1 and 2 come into play.

[not-a-number]

Thanks again you are right they are asking us for proof so it is still open . Will see what Monday brings ? I don't think we gave the new owner details .

[Jamberson]

Someone has to be held liable. If you didn't give them someone to transfer liability to (name and address) their hands are pretty much tied. Make sure you supply that in your answer and hopefully, it will be the last of it for you.