discrimination

[jordigirl]

hi,,

 

I am looking for some advice on discrimination, in a private club,

I know there are still some old working men's clubs that do not allow female members, I have scoured the internet looking for the laws and rules about this but can't seem to find what I am looking for.

 

Thanks in advance

[Eversir]

This would be covered by the Equality Act 2010.

 

If the club in question is defined as an "Association" as per equality law, then the Equality Act will apply.

 

The club becomes an association (under equality law) when it has formal rules governing membership and has more than 25 members.

 

Generally, an association is not allowed to discriminate. However there is an exception: an association is allowed to restrict membership to persons that share a protected characteristic (Schedule 16 of the Act). Gender is a protected characteristic. Membership terms must also be the same to all members regardless of protected characterisics. To put this into context:

 

A Male or Female only golf club - totally fine and lawful.

 

A golf club that allows men to play any day of the week but only women on a certain day - unlawful.

 

A nightclub that charges an entrance fee to males but doesn't charge for females - unlawful.

 

Competitive sporting events - a grey area, but generally discrimination allowed where justified.

 

Sources:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/discrimination_w/discrimination_discrimination_because_of_sex_or_sexual_orientation_e/discrimination_because_of_sex.htm#h_what_is_sex_discrimination

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf

[jordigirl]

hi,

thanks for all that information i have found all this on internet,

 

it is a private members club - has a lot more than 25 members,

rules are written

membership is via a proposer, seconder, a fee, and placed on the notice board. (seemingly for Male members only) £4 a years subs

 

I joined this club over 20 years ago,

was proposed, seconded paid same fee and a £1 a year subs

 

this now transpires that mine was not for a membership, but a lady card holder _- who was told basically does not exsist in the club

 

may sound petty - but so bloody annoying in this day and age, i am looking for advice to try and prove my fee and subscriptions is for a membership not a lower than life, lady card holder

 

thanks

[steampowered]

Does the club have a constitution? That would help tell you the answer.

 

It would be lawful to have membership rules that say 'men only', but I think it would be unlawful to have two-tier membership based on gender (i.e. treating women members worse than men) as there is no specific exemption for that in the Equality Act. What are you losing out on by being only a 'lady card holder' rather than a member?

[fletch70]

I think steampowered is correct I can only relate it to Lancashire CCC who used to have members who could sit anywhere including the ladies stand and lady subscribers who had no vote, were not allowed in the pavilion and were not classed as members. This changed many years ago and not because the members wanted it to but because they had to

[jordigirl]

hi

 

Yes the clubs does have a constitution, reading through the rules of membership

it says

" A candidate for membership must be proposed and seconded by 2 financial members, ( each having been a member for not less than 6 months provided they are able to vouch from personal knowledge for his respectablility and fitnessto be such a member. Any candidate must sign such a declaration as may be required by the committee, stating his concurrence with and adherance to the purpose of the club

 

An entrace fee which is decided by time to time by the committee shall be paid by the candidate on nomination, to be returned in the event of his membership not being granted. All candidates shall be granted membership by the committee. No candidate will be accepted who is under 21 (except for sons of members who will be accepted from age of 18 )

 

The name, address, and occupation of candidate together the names of proposer and seconder including membership number will be displayed in in club for at least 14 days before the dayon which his application for membership is submitted ( however sons will not be posted they will automatically be granted membership)

Every candidate granted membership shall be supplied with a copy of the rules at such a charge the committee may determine from time to time

 

(Note 1 ) Entrance fees will be published together with the current subscriptions on the entrance application form, changes in entrance fees and subscriptions rates posted on the club notice board for information to members

 

(Note 2) The proposer and seconder of any new member will have the responsiblity for there good behaviour during the first 12 months of membership, except for proposers and seconders of lady card holders who have the ongoing responsibilty for there behaviour throughout the period of there card holding

 

 

sorry for the long winded rules of membership

 

I did pay the going fee to joing at the time £6 over 20 year ago and have paid £1 a year subs

 

What started this query is I had a drunk committee man in my face pointing his finger at me ranting on about its his room and I should do as he says - basically I swore at him ( to put it politely) , 6 days later my partner ( not my proposer or seconder ) was told to tell me i was suspended from club for 12 weeks - I recieved no letter, no right to appeal nothing

 

When I went to see the secretary and chairman ( separately ) i was told by 1 a was only a lady card holder and had no rights and the other told me in the eyes of this club women do not exsist in it

 

I personally find it disgusting and I am furious

[jordigirl]

I did complain about the concert chairman being drunk and aggressive to woman if they question anything he does ( but it falls on deaf ears as I am only a lady card holder

 

Oh on another point in there rules, no dunkeness is permitted in club, but they do have a concert chairman who is an alcoholic (the secretary told me this )

[Eversir]

If they allow female membership, the terms and benefits of such membership must be the same as it is for males. Otherwise it's unlawful discrimination.

 

They can prevent female membership entirely, but they can't allow both male & females to become members and then discriminate against one gender (except in certain things like competitive sports).

 

From what you have described, it's almost certainly a breach of the Equality Act 2010.

[jordigirl]

They are saying no females are members and they can't become members

At the AGM they said "the men voted against females becoming members"

 

According to them my joining fee and subscriptions are just so I don't have to sign in.

 

All the information I can find points to it being a breach of the equality act 2010 - but they won't have it, they say they are in right

[Eversir]

Regardless of what they say you are or are not, if you have a "lady card" and have to pay subscription fees it would probably be deemed as a form of membership. They would be on dodgy ground to argue otherwise.

 

Even if you were classed as a guest:

 

A private club cannot refuse to invite a person as a guest of the club, or invite the person on less favourable terms, such as by imposing special conditions, because of the guest’s protected characteristic.

 

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/85018/private-clubs.pdf (Page 7)

Edit

 

Also this:

 

You must not do something to a member, associate member or guest (including a prospective member or guest) which has (or would have) a worse impact on them and on other people who share a particular protected characteristic than on people who do not share that characteristic. Unless you can show that what you have done is

objectively justified, this will be what is called indirect discrimination. ‘Doing something’ can include making a decision, or applying a rule or way of doing things.

 

Source: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/documents/EqualityAct/service_providers_association__club__society.pdf (Page 15)

[steampowered]

Gosh, I understand why you are furious.

 

The legal nature the nature of an unincorporated association such as a club is set by its constitution. The constitution seems a bit ambiguous to me - the application/proposal/fees process which you followed is only talked about in the context of members; but further down it mentions the unexplained concept of 'lady card holders'. It is a bit unclear but I would say that having gone through the membership application process and paid your fees you must surely be a full member.

 

Of course if you are treated worse than other members purely due to your gender I would think that is unlawful discrimination in breach of the Equality Act. I would also think that "two-tier" membership and access to facilities is unlawful discrimination as it goes beyond the specific exemption provided for in Schedule 16 to the Equality Act.

[jordigirl]

I agree with all you's are saying, but all I get out of the committee is " you are not a member theres nothing you can do about it "

 

It's about principle, I want a fair hearing - they have been judge, jury and executioner

 

How would I go about taking it further - without lots of cost

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I wonder if it's worth speaking to the EHRC, equality people. I've heard good things about their helpline, I'll find you a link.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Here you go.

 

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

 

HB

[jordigirl]

hi honeybee,

 

I have spoke to them and I would need to prove membership

[honeybee13]

hi honeybee,

 

I have spoke to them and I would need to prove membership

 

What paperwork do you have from the club please?

 

HB

[jordigirl]

I have a copy of there rule book, and my membership card - which actually says members card with lady card holder written across it in pen - they do have pink lady card holder cards I think these are new as mine has 9 years of subscriptions written inside it. I suppose I could get a copy of the membership forms but they have recently changed they to male and female 1's

 

The secretary told me at the next committee meeting they are going to agree to send lady card holders letters if they do anything wrong - but once again this is new - as my proposer and seconder are no longer members of the club

 

hope this helps

[honeybee13]

Hi. I don't have a lot of experience of this sort of thing, but isn't a membership card good enough to prove that you're a member?

 

HB

[jordigirl]

I would have thought so - but they are saying its not a membership card - its a lady card holder card lol

 

You have to realise we are dealing with neanderthals

 

jordigirl

[honeybee13]

Who's asking for proof, jordigirl, the club or the equality people?

 

HB

[Eversir]

Separate membership forms depending on your gender? It would be interesting to see how these differ.

 

Do they take the same approach for male members in regards to acceptable and unacceptable behaviour?

 

------

 

This explains what recourse you have for unlawful discrimination:

 

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/your-rights/service-users/dealing-discrimination

[jordigirl]

it was the equality commission who said i would need to prove i was a member

[jordigirl]

the forms for membership :- the mens say male membership and the female 1 says lady card holder - I think they are also New

 

to be honest they are picking and choosing how they want there rules to be

 

1 particular rule that stands out is that women can be signed in anytime but men can only be signed in 2 times in a quarter year - this is actually discrimination against men lol

[jordigirl]

male members would be suspended immediately and sent a letter withing 3 days informing them to appear before the committee - to give there version of events and the chance to appeal - with me they were judge - jury and executioner, if my partner had not of been in the club that friday night, I would have turned up on saturday night to be told I not allowed in

[honeybee13]

To help us advise you, jordgirl, what outcome are you looking for please?

 

HB