IVA with Churchwood/Kingsgate Insolvency. Money Gone Missing?

[silentmovieman]

so are you saying no payment was made to this acc since Feb 2008

 

even more reason to await the sar reply

 

Could you post up everything that you received in reply to your cca request

 

with pers details removed

 

I've attached thee list of payments. The important dates are -

 

February 2005 - loan taken out £11,000 + £7428.40 interest

May 2006 - we entered DMP part of which was this debt (with Westcott)

May 2008 - after being informed by Kingsgate that we should never have been in a DMP because an IVA was more appropriate for our situation we signed up to an IVA with them

 

*both DMP and IVA were done in joint names collecting our debts together

 

June 2009 - not being able to make the requested payments we stopped paying Kingsgate

October 2009 - we got a three month default letter from Kingsgate

February 2010 - the IVA was terminated

 

I would go on to be declared bankrupt in 2011 but we wouldn't hear anything from my wife's creditors until Marlin contacted her recently

 

Until June 2009 we made all requested payments to both the DMP and IVA so I'm not sure what's going on with the payment list Marlin have sent us

 

Whilst I'm chasing Northern Rock should I write to Marlin advising them of what I am doing?

 

What does any of this mean anyway?

[citizenB]

silentmovieman, could you please convert your image to pdf format as it is too tiny to read

[citizenB]

So you were with a fee charging DMP and it was them who advised an IVA ?

 

I think it might be worth responding to Marlin advising that there appears to be a discrepancy on the repayment schedule they have provided you with and that you are looking into this. That should keep them off your back for a while.

[dx100uk]

sri you need to make all upload a pdf file

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

as the iva and the dmp were [in all truth] through the same company

I'd sar them too.

 

 

dx

[silentmovieman]

So you were with a fee charging DMP and it was them who advised an IVA ?

 

I think it might be worth responding to Marlin advising that there appears to be a discrepancy on the repayment schedule they have provided you with and that you are looking into this. That should keep them off your back for a while.

 

Were in the DMP and then were contacted by Kingsgate who told us that we had been badly advised by Westcott and should have been in IVA from day one

 

Have tried picture again

[citizenB]

Yes, I would certainly be querying those amounts.

 

If you are going to raise these queries, you should do it by way of Formal complaint to NRAM's head office - that way you will have your concerns end up on the correct desk.

[silentmovieman]

Yes, I would certainly be querying those amounts.

 

If you are going to raise these queries, you should do it by way of Formal complaint to NRAM's head office - that way you will have your concerns end up on the correct desk.

 

Would the issue not be with Kingsgate and what they did with the money?

 

Also with the SAR letter would I need to send a copy of my wifes driving licence to prove her identity as we werent married at the time, or does it need to be a copy of wedding certificate?

Edited September 17, 2014 by silentmovieman

[dx100uk]

Would the issue not be with Kingsgate and what they did with the money?

 

Also with the SAR letter would I need to send a copy of my wifes driving licence to prove her identity as we werent married at the time, or does it need to be a copy of wedding certificate?

 

 

include a line stating her previous address if it was diff to now

and say a ctax bil of today showing her name

 

 

same thing to kingsgate and nram

 

 

yes it would be useful to see what negotiations KG got into with all creditors

little I expect and they got paid little of your total sum to kingsgate too

 

 

dx

[silentmovieman]

include a line stating her previous address if it was diff to now

and say a ctax bil of today showing her name

 

 

same thing to kingsgate and nram

 

 

yes it would be useful to see what negotiations KG got into with all creditors

little I expect and they got paid little of your total sum to kingsgate too

 

 

dx

 

I do still have all of the old Kingsgate documentation including the minutes from meetings etc......i believe theres something about how much each creditor gets paid so ill pull it out and have a look. So im assuming what youre insinuating is that the majority of our money (some 350 quid a month) went straight into their own coffers.

[silentmovieman]

Have just pulled out the IVA proposal and have found that my memory of some of the facts is slightly skewed.

 

According to the notes in the proposal

we approached a company called Wilson Phillips in 2006 and applied for an IVA.

The application was rejected as the creditors wanted more than we could afford

 

 

we went into DMP in September 2006 (not sure where I got May from).

Not all of the creditors were prepared to freeze interest on the debts

the overall level of debt continued to climb.

 

This continued for 18 months

we were approached by Churchwood Financial who then referred us to Kingsgate Insolvency who charged a fee for their advice.

 

 

They then put together a proposal for an IVA where both mine and my then fiancees debts were brought together

as our debts were 'inextricably linked' though our proposals could be voted on seperately.

 

On the front of the proposal it states that the dividend in the IVA will be 27p in the pound.

The monthly payment was 350 pounds.

Does this mean that Kingsgate took 73 out of every 100 pence for themselves?

 

Looking at the statement of attendance of the meeting of creditors theres also an issue with the breakdown of debts too.

 

 

Under my wifes name there are two debts both for Northern Rock, (14,610 and 3,631)

only the larger debt is correct

as the 3631 was actually a debt in my name.

 

 

Under my name both of these two Northern Rock debts are listed again

as well as two for Natwest (which are correct).

 

 

The thing is that the two Northern Rock debts are then added together for both of us to contribute towards our total debts.

 

the total debt for my wife is 18,241 (the two Northern Rock debts) and

my total debt is 47,457 which includes the same two Northern Rock debts

it looks like we were being charged on the IVA twice for the same thing??

 

Obviously now my Northern Rock debt has been settled via my discharged Bankruptcy and

my wifes is now being hounded by Marlin

the more I'm looking into this the more confused I'm becoming.

Edited September 17, 2014 by silentmovieman

[dx100uk]

oh god not churchwood

 

 

there are very bad threads here already about this bunch of fleecers .

[silentmovieman]

Have just pulled out the IVA proposal and have found that my memory of some of the facts is slightly skewed.

 

According to the notes in the proposal we approached a company called Wilson Phillips in 2006 and applied for an IVA. The application was rejected as the creditors wanted more than we could afford and so we went into DMP in September 2006 (not sure where I got May from). Not all of the creditors were prepared to freeze interest on the debts and so the overall level of debt continued to climb.

 

This continued for 18 months until we were approached by Churchwood Financial who then referred us to Kingsgate Insolvency who charged a fee for their advice. They then put together a proposal for an IVA where both mine and my then fiancees debts were brought together as our debts were 'inextricably linked' though our proposals could be voted on seperately.

 

On the front of the proposal it states that the dividend in the IVA will be 27p in the pound. The monthly payment was 350 pounds. Does this mean that Kingsgate took 73 out of every 100 pence for themselves?

 

Looking at the statement of attendance of the meeting of creditors theres also an issue with the breakdown of debts too. Under my wifes name there are two debts both for Northern Rock, (14,610 and 3,631) only the larger debt is correct as the 3631 was actually a debt in my name. Under my name both of these two Northern Rock debts are listed again as well as two for Natwest (which are correct). The thing is that the two Northern Rock debts are then added together for both of us to contribute towards our total debts.

 

So the total debt for my wife is 18,241 (the two Northern Rock debts) and my total debt is 47,457 which includes the same two Northern Rock debts so it looks like we were being charged on the IVA twice for the same thing??

 

Obviously now my Northern Rock debt has been settled via my discharged Bankruptcy and my wifes is now being handled by Marlin but the more I'm looking into this the more confused I'm becoming.

 

So with all of this in mind, wouldnt the SAR be better served being sent to Kingsgate? I havent sent one yet as a tenner a time means I have to be selective about as and when I send them.

[dx100uk]

well, specifically, you need to know the details regarding this NR debt.

 

 

as the payment would have gone through the DMP/IVA

 

 

you can sar KG later for all the debts

 

 

sadly I think you've been done over badly

 

 

dx

[silentmovieman]

Out of interest would Statute Barred come back into play with this debt?

 

I thought it would take effect from when our IVA payments stopped around October 2009 which of course would mean that the six years would end in October 2015.

 

However if no payment was made towards the debt after February 2008 then wouldnt the six years begin then?

 

I know that the list of payments shows four direct payments of 310.93, 47.69, 647.54 and 51.42 around the beginning of 2010

but these are counter acted by the same figures added to the balance as provision holdings

so isnt this just Northern Rock doing some internal house keeping?

[silentmovieman]

Ive been talking to National Debtline about this situation as well as you guys

and they have offered the following insight into the issue regarding payments from the IVA company.

 

According to them its likely that Kingsgate added fees at the start of the IVA and that our payments would have been used to pay off those fees

before any money was made available to the creditors.

 

If this is the case then I assuming none of the creditors were paid during that period which i would find stunning to be honest.

 

Also if the last payment was not the final acknowledgement of the debt

then could that be the date on which the IVA was agreed to

and signed off on by the creditors?

 

Even if that is the case then the debt would still be statute barred as the six years would begin in May 2008.

[silentmovieman]

Im thinking at the very least a statute barred letter will give me a bit more time with Marlin to try and get to the bottom of the KIngsgate issue.

 

Speaking of which, if I did find they had been upto no good what exactly could I do about it?

Edited September 18, 2014 by silentmovieman

[dx100uk]

you need information not continual speculation

 

 

yes that is how these fee paying DMC's work.

 

 

dx

[ComingHome]

Very interesting. Just to wish you well SMM.

 

 

I must say it's a bloody cheek on Northern Rock's part - I have a bag-full of their shares here which are worth zilch.

 

 

Maybe they should have paid some off their own debts!

[silentmovieman]

According to National Debtline the Statute Barred issue would not come into play whilst the IVA was in play

despite there apparently being no payments made towards the debt during that time.

Its all very confusing when it comes to the whole Statute issue as the National Debtlines own fact sheet states -

 

A simple contract debt will normally be statute-barred if:

 

the creditor has not already obtained a county court judgment (CCJ) against you; and

 

you or anyone else owing the money (if your debt is in joint names) have not made a payment towards the debt during the last six years; and

 

you have not written to the creditor admitting you owe the debt during the last six years

 

Now obviously there's no CCJ ever in place for this debt, we have not acknowledged the debt for over six years

and no payments have been made but then I guess the IVA clouds the issue.

 

The other problem I'd like to get to the bottom with Kingsgate is the apparent duplication of the Northern Rock loans.

 

 

Both myself and my wife (fiancee at the time) had loans in sole names with NR.

Kingsgate however had the two debts listed under my name AND separately under her name too.

 

National Debtline have told me that an IVA can be interlocked for convenience if we were cohabiting (we were)

but only debts in joint names should be listed under both names for the benefit of the creditors to vote on.

Therefore as far as I can see Kingsgate are in the wrong in this matter,

after hearing back from NR I guess Kingsgate are my next port of call.

 

Is there any steps that can be taken should an IVA be incorrect. for misbehaving in this manner?

[silentmovieman]

Sending a SAR letter today, with the issues I've uncovered I think I'm going to send it to Kingsgate,

northern rock can wait as the payments aren't the biggest issue the way they have listed the creditors is.

[silentmovieman]

SAR letter sent so I'm in a holding pattern right now.

 

However Marlin have today sent a letter with an Income and Expenditure form,

 

 

should I get this filled in and sent back to them or am I better off writing them a holding letter stating that I'm waiting to hear back regarding the SAR?

 

Just not sure what I'd put in a holding letter mind you.

 

If I do complete the I&E form do I include the payments that are currently made to those creditors who were not part of the IVA?

Edited September 24, 2014 by silentmovieman

[dx100uk]

never give any dca pers financial details.

 

 

if you want to open up letter tennis with the dca

 

 

then write to them.

briefly outlining that the outstanding amount is in dispute

due to historic penalty charges

once my sar return is honoured

and I have had a chance to review the situation

I will contact you.

[silentmovieman]

never give any dca pers financial details.

 

if you want to open up letter tennis with the dca

 

then write to them.

briefly outlining that the outstanding amount is in dispute

due to historic penalty charges

once my sar return is honoured

and I have had a chance to review the situation

I will contact you.

 

So am i better off not writing a holding letter to Marlin?

 

 

I just thought it might be a good idea to kep the wolves from the door whilst I'm waiting on the SAR.

 

To be honest I'm not sure the SAR is going to help at all,

at least not with the issue of this debt which Marlin now owns.

 

 

As they've provided a CCA and the debt is not statute barred

then it comes down to making an offer of payment

or going the bankruptcy route

but obviously Ill await the SAR before deciding which way to go next

 

Out of interest if i were to ask Marlin for a detailed breakdown of what each debit and credit is on the list of transactions

they have provided me with would that involve another SAR and ten pound fee?

 

Also am I not obligated to fill out the I+E form so that they have an idea of what

money we have or have not got available?

[dx100uk]

only a judge can demand pers fin dets.

 

 

get that sar done.

 

 

dx