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[The Debt Star]

The ICO is as useful as an icecube on the south pole. I have made like 6 complaints and every damn one has been shrugged off, literally shrugged off, by the ICO, even when they agreed that data had been incorrectly processed. The ICO really are pathetic.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

And getting steadily worse they seem to have these 8? principles of fairness? ingrained on tablets of stone

and no over view of the real problems of real people ( end rant)

[Jamesx81x]

Quite disappointed not had a reply from Phil

 

Really wanting him or any CRA Employee to show me which part of the DPA says data belongs to a creditor and not the individual it concerns

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Perhaps Phil is locked away in the massive` legal' archives of Experian HQ or he has been gagged

[Jamesx81x]

Might have to go and ask Experian then, after all by making such statements they are accused of stating incorrect information.

 

Not like them is it now!

 

(The account information we hold belongs to lenders. Only they can amend it or tell us to amend it for them.) Where exactly does it quote this???

Edited May 18, 2011 by Jamesx81x

[Jamesx81x]

http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/ask-james.html

 

Lets all ask James a question

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Freedom of Information Act inquiry WHERE IS PHIL?

Doesn't The DPA say it is our personal data?

[Jamesx81x]

Yes it does you give the companies 'permission' to use your data when you apply for credit products etc which is fair enough if used properly.

 

No where does it state that your data will then belong to us and we will be the legal owners of it when you make an application for credit as it is simply not the case.

 

Information of an individual belongs to that individual and under the Data Protection Act you have a right to ensure that data is correct.

 

Thats what gets me about Experians statement in post 55 and is something i want them to back up with evidence, otherwise be held responsible for breaches of the DPA

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Iv'e had a lot of dealings in the last year regarding unauthorised searches made when I had challenged DCA's on behalf of others

with no debt problems of my own.

The immense amount of time spent writing letters the replies to which never addressed the major points of the complaint and

the hours spent trying to explain verbally that the entries were wrong is unbelieveable.

The '' It wasn't me'' It's their fault'' child like replies made me furious.

[justiceforall]

Gentlemen, thanks for your comments regarding my post.

 

The reason for this post is, I decided to sign up for a 30 day trial account with Equifax so I could download a free credit report on myself just to be told, after answering all the online questions successfully, that I needed to call them to confirm some details during business hours. More time wasting.

 

I have also discovered that of the 3 main consumer credit agencies; i.e. Equifax, Experian and Callcredit; each of them may hold different information about me. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at this, it just highlights the inconsistencies and anomalies within this unregulated industry. The point is, even if I get a free credit report from Equifax, I will probably have to do the same thing twice over with the other two before I know exactly why I was turned down for a business bank account 2 days ago. More time wasting.

 

As me learned friend BRIGADIER2JCS said... "The immense amount of time spent writing letters the replies to which never addressed the major points of the complaint and the hours spent trying to explain verbally that the entries were wrong is unbelieveable". Been there .. about 16 months ago... when I disputed 2 entries against my credit file with Equifax.

 

In the end because I was trying to make a living running my own business I just didn't have the time to carry on bashing my head up against the brick wall I encountered at every turn. I disputed these entries (and still do) but I now need to go back again and try to sort this out once and for all because it has become a major issue even with what should be the not really major issue of opening a new business account. This is both bizarre and ironic considering I already have one account with the same bank that turned me down and that account has been run in an orderly fashion for 3 years. I also have another business account with another bank and the same applies, it has been run in an orderly fashion for 5 years. I have BT accounts, numerous trade accounts, 2 mobile phone accounts, and various direct debits, all of which are paid promptly and have never bounced over a 12 year period. None of these including the BT accounts show on my credit file, all that shows is (apparently) 2 defaults which I disputed last year and will now have to dispute to the bitter end this year. Hollywood would kill for a script like this!

 

One positive thing that came out of this issue is that I have now found a bank that will open a business account complete with visa debit card even for those with poor credit history. The only restriction being you cannot borrow on the account. If anyone can benefit from this information send me a private message and I'll give you details of the bank and the account name. I have to say the visa debit card surprised me as banks tend to regard providing a debit card as providing credit.

 

One last thought. If one cannot open a business account to run a business, how is a self employed person supposed to operate? I understand many people who have been refused bank accounts use a friend's or a relative's account, but this can create all sorts of problems for the account holder if the tax office regards it as a partnership - or even money laundering - if one is accepting money into their own bank account on behalf of another.

 

All in all, as BRIGADIER2JCS quite rightly said, you can waste immense amounts of time trying to bring these issues to some kind of satisfactory conclusion. The fact that the establishment (i.e. government) allows these issues to exist in the first place, is just more evidence of the lack of commitment to consumer protection by said establishment.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I cannot argue with any thing you say and totally agree with the assessment of the situation

and ask only one question HOW THE HELL DO WE FIGHT IT!!!!!

[Jamesx81x]

Is this not the kind of things MP's are paid for?

 

Finding out why government organisations are treating consumers this way and why legislation is been abused in every possible sense.

 

Then again thats what MP's do too isnt it?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes

[justiceforall]

I cannot argue with any thing you say and totally agree with the assessment of the situation and ask only one question HOW THE HELL DO WE FIGHT IT!!!!!

 

I think one can only fight 'city hall' by banding together in a common cause. The sad fact is, one person cannot make that much of a dent in the wall no matter how much they try nor how honourable their cause. I feel it would lend much more weight to the cause if the CAG would put its name behind it and if we had a clear and concise paper on the issue which we could present to members of both houses of parliament. It is not that difficult to find sympathetic MPs or Lords who are looking to make a mark and there has been much talk about debt and how it affects the average household within those hallowed halls.

[Jamesx81x]

We need a starting point and one of the main CAG guys to get involved!

[Jamesx81x]

Is it the Consumer Affairs Minister that is ultimately responsible for stuff like this?

[justiceforall]

We need a starting point and one of the main CAG guys to get involved!

 

Yep. So how do we contact one of the main CAG guys?

 

And yes, the Consumer Affairs Minister is probably the responsible man. However, it might be more advisable to find a champion amongst ordinary MPs or Lords first and ask them to approach the Minister on our behalf?

[Jamesx81x]

I have no idea who are the main guys on here but am sure they are somewhere

[justiceforall]

How serious are you guys about taking this the distance? Two things:

 

(1) Everything we say or submit must be backed up by evidence to corroborate our contentions.

(2) Those who begin should be prepared for the long haul.

 

A quick look at the whois for consumeractiongroup.co.uk shows Marc Gander as the domain name registrant. Has anyone spoken to Mr Gander in the past? I don't know if Mr Gander is still involved. This could probably be ascertained by a quick message via the contact us form.

[Jamesx81x]

I am up for it as am fed up of been screwed by them.

 

As said in my original post i have a letter from the creditor clearly stating that the default notice is defective.

 

I showed this to Experian and they refused to remove the entry telling me the creditor owns the data.

 

Where exactly in the Data Protection Act does it state that?

[justiceforall]

I am up for it as am fed up of been screwed by them.

 

As said in my original post i have a letter from the creditor clearly stating that the default notice is defective.

 

I showed this to Experian and they refused to remove the entry telling me the creditor owns the data.

 

Where exactly in the Data Protection Act does it state that?

 

In answer to the first part of your post, as we both know, the ICO guidance states that they would "normally expect a lender to keep records that are necessary to show an agreement exists and to support filing a default. We would also expect a lender to be able to produce evidence to justify a default record they had placed on a credit reference file. Not having any supporting records may indicate a breach of the data protection principle etc."

 

Consequently, if a signed credit agreement cannot be produced when requested, and the Credit Reference Agency is aware of this, they may well be breaking the Law by not complying with a request to delete such unlawful default records.

 

In answer to your comment re who owns the data, I have asked the ICO to clarify whom the data belongs to and sent a 2nd email request today. If I don't get a response by email soon, I will contact someone I know there and ask him to clarify it. I'm reluctant to do this because he's a fairly senior person and I don't want to be viewed by the rank and file as 'going over their heads'.

[The Debt Star]

Count me in. If you guys wanna meet up some place neutral in the centre of England or something for the purposes of holding a meeting with the main CAG people then I'd be happy to come along and support a campaign.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Lets get to it!!!!!!

[Jamesx81x]

As well as trying to get hold of the guys with clout on the website, what about trying to get one of the Consumer Champions on board.

 

I do not think for one minute it would be an easy task to do so, but a strongly written passionate letter to one of them or their agents regarding the way these organisations operate may get some attention.

 

Wouldn't hurt to try i am guessing. Also can you imagine the publicity they would get if they got somewhere with it?

 

Phil you may read this and giggle your little weasel head off but the fact is the consumer has had enough and its time to do something about it.

 

Enough people shout, people will listen

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

THe Department of Work and Skills is apparently the ministry that covers CRA,s and we would need to involve

the justice Dept looks like a change of minister as Uncle Ken has got his foot in his gob again.