Nazi comparisons - please read

[antone]

In the last few days my colleagues and I have had to remove a few references from posts. Specifically, we've had to remove references to Nazis, concentration camps and so on.

 

Now, we really don't like editing posts, but, well, it does no good for the quality of discourse on this forum when folks compare welfare reform to systematic genocide. Really, it doesn't, take my word for it.

 

By all means disagree with our politicians - I do it all the time, and I'm on the Site Team and should know better. But please, can we avoid comparing the government to the most evil mass-murderers in human history? It poisons the discussion here and insults the memories of the victims of that atrocity.

 

We'll keep editing out such remarks, of course: I'm just asking you to spare us the trouble. It's not like we don't have anything else to do.

[Beatrice Bee]

OK. Only those claimants who look like concentration camp victims shall make comparisons and even then only if thinnes resulted from sanctions or disallowances. I am trying to lose weight and get my lunch in M&S as a JSA claimant so it was not me making the comparisons. As yet.

[antone]

OK. Only those claimants who look like concentration camp victims shall make comparisons and even then only if thinnes resulted from sanctions or disallowances. I am trying to lose weight and get my lunch in M&S as a JSA claimant so it was not me making the comparisons. As yet.

 

Well, you know, I guess most of those who were incarcerated and killed in concentration camps didn't get to buy sandwiches from M&S. Look, I'm not going to argue this point. I would like the Nazi references to stop and I would like that to happen now. We're getting sick of policing them.

 

I don't actually think this is a complicated idea, and I'm not interested in a debate on the subject. Sorry for being all "I'm a moderator and I am the decider!" but, you know, enough is enough. Work with us or cause us trouble, it's your choice.

[estellyn]

It's very important to have some perspective. Yes, it's a horrible situation for those caught up in the welfare reforms, but currently we at least live in country that has welfare. Even in developed countries such as some states in the U.S. will just take your kids into care if you fall on hard times and lose accommodation (their rental laws are far worse than ours), rather than helping you. In some places there is no welfare, if you don't have work, and have no family to help, you beg, turn to crime, starve or die of illness or disease (no national health care in those countries either).

 

 

And the welfare reforms aren't particularly about hatred - they're about economic ideology and vote winning from an increasingly right wing country, and also about the apathy of the masses. The further right wing the country becomes, the more this type of reform of services we rely on will happen. It's our responsibility, if we disagree with right wing politics to get out there, vote for the most left wing party we can (difficult nowadays), and keep up a dialogue with people we know to ensure that they know the FACTS and not the right wing propaganda, so that they can make their own decisions (whatever they may be).

 

 

To think our current situation is anything like 1930's/40's Germany is pretty stupid and also devalues the real pain, trauma and mass genocide. However bad it is to need to use a food bank, soup kitchen, or be evicted, it is still not any way in the same realm as being abducted, tortured and gassed to death, or being a survivor and finding your entire family ended up in gas chambers. My husband's great aunt had mental health problems in Nazi Germany. And no she didn't have to go through an ATOS assessment and appeal, however difficult that is to deal with - she was picked up in a van for a 'journey into the country' and was gassed.

 

 

So please get a grip, people. Yes, the problems faced by people as a result of the welfare reforms are horrible and difficult to deal with, and I in no way underestimate the pain and trauma experienced by the individuals (to the individual knowing someone else had/has it worse doesn't bring any comfort), but on a national level it really doesn't compare to the unopposed genocide of millions.

[Annie71]

I have to agree. Our government are not national socialists and we have not been deemed to need only 300 Kc a day to live. We are not being crowded into housing. If people believe that then they should visit Warsaw , Krakow , Berlin etc.

 

I would say and I hope you will forgive me, I believe the criteria are there that COULD lead us down that road . When things are bad people want someone to blame, the Jews were an easy target in interwar germany. Who are the easy targets at the moment.....you decide

[rebel11]

There are weekly deaths of vulnerable people in this country who cannot defend themselves as they don't have the means or support to do so, i.e. they are too ill. This has been on going for the last five years. It has been estimated that the number of vulnerable deaths could be as high as 10,000 plus. This should not be happening, the government of the time is totally accountable for their policies and actions.

 

But we shouldn't go back into the past, their is no justification for that.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I have to agree. Our government are not national socialists and we have not been deemed to need only 300 Kc a day to live. We are not being crowded into housing. If people believe that then they should visit Warsaw , Krakow , Berlin etc.

 

I would say and I hope you will forgive me, I believe the criteria are there that COULD lead us down that road . When things are bad people want someone to blame, the Jews were an easy target in interwar germany. Who are the easy targets at the moment.....you decide

 

I disagree.

 

The NSDAP came to power because of a number of issues, not just anti-Semitism.

 

The NSDAP postulated that Jews controlled the finance sector and some major manufacturing companies, and had contributed to Germany's defeat in 1918 because they had witheld funding and equipments needed by the military. However, there had been significant anti-Semitism in Germany for many years - as there was in much of Europe, including the UK. The Nazis built on that to make the Jews scapegoats for Germany's problems.

 

There is no comparison with the UK today.

 

The loss of the war, and the requirements imposed by the Armistice, had a major effect on the pride of the people of Germany; the Nazis promise to rebuild Germany's military capability was a popular move.

 

There is no comparison with the UK today.

 

There was rampant hyperinflation; in a popular move, the Nazis stopped it by devaluation.

 

There is no comparison with the UK today.

 

There was, following the Russian revolution, great fear across Europe that communism would spread.

 

There is no comparison to the UK today.

 

The Nazis used the SA to disrupt opponent's activities.

 

There is no comparison to the UK today.

 

 

Nor is anyone suggesting that the UK needs 'Lebensraum', or that other territories should belong to the UK. Do you seriously believe that anyone in the government is proposing a 'T4' programme?

 

It seems to me that any comparison between the policies of the Nazis, and anything that's happening in the UK today, is absurd.

Nor do I think that we are anywhere near 'going down that road'.

[Lilly_Monroe]

I accept we should not draw comparisons between the Jews and the Germans - but whatever you refuse to allow us call it, it is in its own right persecution of the most vulnerable people in this Country.

 

Whilst I am sorry for those people in other Countries, who have no safety net, I live here, I payed my taxes to this Country, dare I even say I was born here.

 

No, we should not harp back to the past, but we cannot erase it can we.

It would also be nice to think people learn from the past, but I do not believe that.

The vulnerable are the vulnerable in whatever country in whatever century/year they live in - whatever the reason for their intimidation.

Maybe if I could see a reason as to why we are being targeted it might be a less bitter pill to swallow, it is certainly not about the money.

Are we lucky, as some suggest - well depends on how far this Government are prepared to push their hatred of the welfare state on us, doesn't it.

Every persecution for whatever reason has to have a starting point, I think we are well into ours.

 

They do not give a damn, how many starve or die - and I see no rejoicing for thanks in food banks, once we start to accept them as a deliverance and a way of life we might as well give in completely.

[Beatrice Bee]

Easy target: me the EU migrant to blame for no jobs for the English and for no money in the welfare kitty. UK signed up to the EU to benefit from being a member but it comes with obligations which were also signed and agreed upon. Eg welfare for EU migrants after the transitional period when new accession state citizens have full EU rights.

 

It is understood that we get the website into trouble if we make comparisons about WP / JCP and the Natzi regime. And before anyone says I'm mad and you can not shop in M&S if you have £72 a week for food and energy bills: a small juice is a pound, a scone is 60p and call it a lunch. It is not the fancy ready meals or sandwiches costing £3.00 each.

 

I was shocked to see that there is housing benefit for me in the UK as single with no dependants. In my country they outlawed homelessness and you are not allowed to sit / live / sleep in the street in public such was the number of beggars and homeless in the hot spots of the capital that they passed law to ban them. It is true that when you go into a shopping centre you want to enjoy shopping and the sight of dozens of homeless will ruin your experience. You do not want to be stepping over rough sleepers when at a train station.

 

What may give rise to comparisons to Natzi regimes is the child like treatment and the fact that clients have no say in the matter. You are told to sit at your WP provider two full days and look for jobs on the internet even if you say you have internet at home. If you refuse, they take your money away for 4 weeks. Activities have to be reasonable so anyone had their WP provider justify hours of supervised job search in writing?

 

What can not be compared to a Nazi regime is unfair sanctions: taking your money away for 4 weeks for not attending an interview about which you got no notification.

 

The leaders of the church are speaking up against the new sanction regime as it is the church and charities who feed sanctioned claimants and they see the plight of people who paid into the system through taxes thinking they would get benefits when needed only to find out that they are sanctioned and no money for 4 weeks because they forgot to log into their Universal Jobmatch account on Christmas day to apply for jobs and in their Jobseeker's Agreement they were made to sign that they will log in daily. Even God rested on the 7th day after creating the world but no rest for the jobseeker: have to spend 35 hours per week looking for work, otherwise no JSA.

 

Anyone may find that they are unemployed even if they have never been and they are working now and they should know what is to come if they claim JSA / ESA. You are giving 40% of your wages to the state in taxes for years on end and on week one you may be denied JSA leaving you hungry and unable to pay the bills.

 

Many believe that the system is now set out to sanction you ASAP to take away your benefits to save money for the state. So those in work now may as well help to do something about it as a third of the claimants got sanctioned and it is impossible that it was all fair and they refused to apply for jobs or to attend interviews. It says in your agreement that your benefits will be affected if you do not comply and most would comply as they really need that £72 a week to survive.

 

Get your case recorded at the Citizens Advice Bureau because they lobby to change the sanction regime and they have to present facts to MPs: the numbers and cases do matter when it comes to making changes in the law. You will be put into prison for not paying your taxes so who will be put into prison for not paying your benefits when you need to take money out of the pot into which you paid in. It is your money and they not letting you have it. Comparisons to a Natzi state shows anger and dissatisfaction and it will not help. Think and look how you can change the system and act now. Google what is being done about it, write to your MP. Post here asking people how we could change this system.

 

You have a "contract" with the state: you pay in thousands during the years to be able to get £72 JSA per week when you need it and it is called welfare system. It is not like we are begging and never paid into the system. It is amazing how they get away with it and how bankers still pay themselves bonuses after making billions of losses again. People who mess up so bad should not get any wages but be held responsible for it.

 

Pay rise for MPs to round it up to £70,000? From what money? The UK is borrowing daily to be able to pay benefits so a pay cut would be better until they actually show some results. Now all I've heard is "less people are in receipt of benefits". Yeah, because you sanctioned 800,000 in one year and they go to food banks to survive. The number of JSA claimants does not equal the number getting benefits.

 

It is only those who attend the JCP fortnightly who know whether it is there to help them find a job or the system is set out to take away your benefits ASAP. The Natzi comparisons will be deleted but tell us your case what happened exactly. You will help others to prevent sanctions and let the public see what is going on.

 

The hardship payments you get when you are sanctioned are recoverable meaning that DWP will be deducting money from your basic state pension if needed and pensioners are said to "eat or heat" these days without such deductions. You do not want to be a homeless pensioner relying on soup kitchens: act now.

[rebel11]

It is what is 'popular to get votes', but at this time it's a double whammy, as it's 'popular to get votes' and their is a huge government deficit that needs to be filled, the 'vulnerable' must pay before billion pound co-operations - Amazon, Teabucks, Goldman Sachs etc, billionaires, millionaires etc.

[porkyp1g]

Beatrice, I do not see why you feel the need to rant. You've been asked by a member of the site team not to make comparisons on this website. Surely that's the end of the matter. You might think it, you clearly do, you just need to keep banging on about it on here.

 

Yet after the polite request to stop it, you felt the need to carry on making yet more "natzi" comments. What is a natzi anyway?

[Lilly_Monroe]

It is what is 'popular to get votes', but at this time it's a double whammy, as it's 'popular to get votes' and their is a huge government deficit that needs to be filled, the 'vulnerable' must pay before billion pound co-operations - Amazon, Teabucks, Goldman Sachs etc, billionaires, millionaires etc.

 

But that deficit is based on lies - we are not poor Cameron said so himself a few weeks ago.

The total welfare cost is a mere blip on the screen - people are being force fed lies and propaganda.

How much has IDS wasted on his new schemes that have all failed.

 

The poor and sick are easy targets - feed the propaganda machine how they cost this Country millions.

This is how it ALL starts and pretty soon it turn into something else as it builds momentum.

I for one do not think we will have a NHS in 10 years time, (or a shadow of what we have at the moment) I am not alone in my thoughts - again the less wealthy are the losers.

 

Yes, people need to work and not rely on handouts, but there are NO jobs, so why are they being punished and treated so appallingly.

[essexmat]

I apologise myself as I was a culprit in the 'nazi' comments so apologies to all on the site and the site team who do a great job.

[ScarletPimpernel]

But that deficit is based on lies - we are not poor Cameron said so himself a few weeks ago.

The total welfare cost is a mere blip on the screen - people are being force fed lies and propaganda.

How much has IDS wasted on his new schemes that have all failed.

 

The poor and sick are easy targets - feed the propaganda machine how they cost this Country millions.

This is how it ALL starts and pretty soon it turn into something else as it builds momentum.

I for one do not think we will have a NHS in 10 years time, (or a shadow of what we have at the moment) I am not alone in my thoughts - again the less wealthy are the losers.

 

Yes, people need to work and not rely on handouts, but there are NO jobs, so why are they being punished and treated so appallingly.

 

How are we being 'force fed lies and propaganda'? No-one is forced to read, hear or see anything. We are free to criticise that which we do not agree with. For every article that is pro-Government policy, there are others that are anti- it. Propaganda is communication where the intent is to influence the comunity - so it could be argued that propaganda is presented by both sides - including your risible suggestion that people are being punished for not working, for example.

 

However, as a mature, thinking person I can look at the arguments presented by both sides and make an informed judgment as to which to believe.

 

The NHS has to evolve as advances are made in medicine, and demands upon it change. I do not believe that the less wealthy are losers where the NHS is concerned, as it is the poorest who tend to be the greatest consumers of healthcare, and thus benefit most. If you want to look at factors affecting the NHS, perhaps, instead of unsubstatntiated snipes at government, you could look at the way substance misuse, obesity and smoking suck up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funding, and which groups in society contribute most to that drain upon resources.

 

This is how it ALL starts and pretty soon it turn into something else as it builds momentum

 

What do you mean? What do you think will start, and what else do you think 'it' will turn into?

[Lilly_Monroe]

How are we being 'force fed lies and propaganda'? No-one is forced to read, hear or see anything. We are free to criticise that which we do not agree with. For every article that is pro-Government policy, there are others that are anti- it. Propaganda is communication where the intent is to influence the comunity - so it could be argued that propaganda is presented by both sides - including your risible suggestion that people are being punished for not working, for example.

 

However, as a mature, thinking person I can look at the arguments presented by both sides and make an informed judgment as to which to believe.

 

The NHS has to evolve as advances are made in medicine, and demands upon it change. I do not believe that the less wealthy are losers where the NHS is concerned, as it is the poorest who tend to be the greatest consumers of healthcare, and thus benefit most. If you want to look at factors affecting the NHS, perhaps, instead of unsubstatntiated snipes at government, you could look at the way substance misuse, obesity and smoking suck up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funding, and which groups in society contribute most to that drain upon resources.

 

 

 

What do you mean? What do you think will start, and what else do you think 'it' will turn into?

 

 

You are very aggressive towards my comments, they are not snipes they are my views.

Am I not allowed them then?

You seem to have drawn the conclusion my comments are worthless - from your tone I find you offensive.

 

I am also a mature thinking person (thank you) for trying to say in your educated way I am not.

I will not contribute to this thread any more - I find you incredibly rude.

[Beatrice Bee]

It was not me who made the Natzi comments on this website and I was just trying to say why some JSA claimants made such comments because seen them the other day.

 

What is to come is what is happening abroad: you paid into the system for 30 years to get a state pension and now the state won't give you half the money they supposed to give you as a basic state pension but tells people "to look after themselves", meaning save up for your retirement. Would do if wages were enough to pay for living expenses.

 

Look into the statistics to see how much even the daily interest is on the money the UK is borrowing to sustain the system. If it is millions per day, how is the UK rich?

 

There may be no state pension by the time you get there and guess what: Argentina and Hungary nationalized private pensions to rescue the system meaning the state takes away the private pension you have and there is no guarantee that it will have money to pay you pension when you get there in 40 years time. In Argentina the state would not let people withdraw their money from the bank so you starve although you have savings and you contributed to have a pension.

 

Being an MP is just a job like any other and as things stand, I value the work of those flipping burgers more than that of those who let bankers pay themselves bonuses after making billions of losses again.

 

Life was better when I was growing up in a now post communist Eastern European state so this "richness of the UK" is all illusion. It is not the hatred of the welfare state and the poor that makes the government take away your JSA on week two with unfair sanctions but the need to save money and doctor statistics about how many unemployed is out there.

 

To have it fortnightly that you are pressurized to give DWP access to your Universal Jobmatch account when you see up here that it is used to sanction claimants and when you have seen it for two years that it is a useless site and you got no job interviews through it but through other sites: let those speak who think otherwise because the only person I saw saying she may be getting a job through it is now sanctioned for the second time for a seemingly unfair reason.

 

JSA should be guaranteed payments depending how much you paid into the system and how long. Let's change the law to make it more fair. As it is now, I can not bare seeing British people say they paid into the system for 20 years and got sanctioned after a month for not logging into Uni Jobmatch on Christmas Day. As opposed to which me EU migrant who deny DWP access to Uni Jobmatch been on JSA for 3 years, no sanctions but attempts every time I sign on. Only one of my employers paid taxes and it was for 6 weeks. So shame on the system who does not let British people have their rightful money but will pay benefits to migrants and refugees who never contributed a penny. Rant I will because it is your country and you have to go to food banks to eat. There is money to pay soldiers to fight abroad though no one has attacked or threatened the UK but there is no money to pay £72 JSA for British people who paid into the system for years.

 

Isn't it people should make choices about how the money is spent because you are leaving it to those who never struggled and who do not know what it's like to worry daily how you will pay for food and bills if you lose your job or if your JSA is sanctioned with whatever underhand tricks.

[ScarletPimpernel]

You are very aggressive towards my comments, they are not snipes they are my views.

Am I not allowed them then?

You seem to have drawn the conclusion my comments are worthless - from your tone I find you offensive.

 

I am also a mature thinking person (thank you) for trying to say in your educated way I am not.

I will not contribute to this thread any more - I find you incredibly rude.

 

 

 

Not aggressive at all - I am merely asking you to substantiate your comments. I will take you at your word that you are a mature thinking person, but flouncing off in a huff when your views are challenged, tends to demonstrate a different aspect.

[Sparks_]

How are we being 'force fed lies and propaganda'? No-one is forced to read, hear or see anything. We are free to criticise that which we do not agree with. For every article that is pro-Government policy, there are others that are anti- it. Propaganda is communication where the intent is to influence the comunity - so it could be argued that propaganda is presented by both sides - including your risible suggestion that people are being punished for not working, for example.

 

However, as a mature, thinking person I can look at the arguments presented by both sides and make an informed judgment as to which to believe.

 

The NHS has to evolve as advances are made in medicine, and demands upon it change. I do not believe that the less wealthy are losers where the NHS is concerned, as it is the poorest who tend to be the greatest consumers of healthcare, and thus benefit most. If you want to look at factors affecting the NHS, perhaps, instead of unsubstatntiated snipes at government, you could look at the way substance misuse, obesity and smoking suck up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funding, and which groups in society contribute most to that drain upon resources.

 

 

 

What do you mean? What do you think will start, and what else do you think 'it' will turn into?

 

We are being force fed lies and propaganda because only 1 side of the story is told on the news reports, most news papers publish the stories the government want them to....the greater part of this country believe the ill, disabled and unemployed are defrauding the 'workers' they are being untruthful about being ill or disabled, they are being lazy and not looking for a job from all those vacancies that are out there waiting for you to walk into! How many believe that there is millions of pounds being defrauded by those on benefits when in reality it is 70 pence in every £100?

[rebel11]

I agree with what you have said in your post. IDS is now perpetuating on the 'vulnerable' what he dreamed of doing as Conservative leader, he can do it because he now has a fall guy, i.e. Cameron.

 

But that deficit is based on lies - we are not poor Cameron said so himself a few weeks ago.

The total welfare cost is a mere blip on the screen - people are being force fed lies and propaganda.

How much has IDS wasted on his new schemes that have all failed.

 

The poor and sick are easy targets - feed the propaganda machine how they cost this Country millions.

This is how it ALL starts and pretty soon it turn into something else as it builds momentum.

I for one do not think we will have a NHS in 10 years time, (or a shadow of what we have at the moment) I am not alone in my thoughts - again the less wealthy are the losers.

 

Yes, people need to work and not rely on handouts, but there are NO jobs, so why are they being punished and treated so appallingly.

[Lilly_Monroe]

We are being force fed lies and propaganda because only 1 side of the story is told on the news reports, most news papers publish the stories the government want them to....the greater part of this country believe the ill, disabled and unemployed are defrauding the 'workers' they are being untruthful about being ill or disabled, they are being lazy and not looking for a job from all those vacancies that are out there waiting for you to walk into! How many believe that there is millions of pounds being defrauded by those on benefits when in reality it is 70 pence in every £100?

 

Absolutely, its a crime to admit being on benefits these days.

I have been told by my Work provider, that most people on ESA just sit on it and make NO attempt to find work.

Maybe they might just be ill, but the WP are not allowed to think like that - they have been programmed to get us into work whatever the cost to our health.

 

It is not going to improve Labour have said if elected they will not back track on anything.

 

Look at how all the services to help the poor and sick have been whittled down running on almost empty in some cases.

The Government do not want us seeking help.

And, no these are not just my views, I have friends who did work (a few still do) in areas of the NHS, Mind, and the likes.

[Sparks_]

Absolutely, its a crime to admit being on benefits these days.

I have been told by my Work provider, that most people on ESA just sit on it and make NO attempt to find work.

Maybe they might just be ill, but the WP are not allowed to think like that - they have been programmed to get us into work whatever the cost to our health.

 

It is not going to improve Labour have said if elected they will not back track on anything.

 

Look at how all the services to help the poor and sick have been whittled down running on almost empty in some cases.

The Government do not want us seeking help.

And, no these are not just my views, I have friends who did work (a few still do) in areas of the NHS, Mind, and the likes.

 

I agree with you, I have been on ESA(support group) for 3 years now and would love to go back to work as I am bored out of my mind! But until the NHS pull their finger out and arrange for the surgery that I need there is not a chance I can go to work I have both sorts of friends, ones that understand I need time to get well and then look for work and I have a few others who say there must be something you can do work wise! Yes something that will pay a living wage for a few hours work sat doing I dont know what! I have qualifications...double nursing ones, I want to work but until I am well it is neither safe for myself or anyone I maybe caring for!

[worried33]

How are we being 'force fed lies and propaganda'? No-one is forced to read, hear or see anything. We are free to criticise that which we do not agree with. For every article that is pro-Government policy, there are others that are anti- it. Propaganda is communication where the intent is to influence the comunity - so it could be argued that propaganda is presented by both sides - including your risible suggestion that people are being punished for not working, for example.

 

However, as a mature, thinking person I can look at the arguments presented by both sides and make an informed judgment as to which to believe.

 

The NHS has to evolve as advances are made in medicine, and demands upon it change. I do not believe that the less wealthy are losers where the NHS is concerned, as it is the poorest who tend to be the greatest consumers of healthcare, and thus benefit most. If you want to look at factors affecting the NHS, perhaps, instead of unsubstatntiated snipes at government, you could look at the way substance misuse, obesity and smoking suck up a disproportionate amount of healthcare funding, and which groups in society contribute most to that drain upon resources.

 

 

 

What do you mean? What do you think will start, and what else do you think 'it' will turn into?

 

ok I will start I respect the rules of the site, I havent written any nazi posts so you guys havent edited any of my posts, but if I did I would immediatly stop to respect the rules.

 

However I disagree with you on the propoganda.

 

Someone to find news about eg. the ATOS protests will generally have to look for it and be told about by sites like this, hwever to find anti welfare news they simply need to turn the tv on or buy any mainstream newspaper. The news machine is far from balanced.

 

Likewise various other subjects like how the deficit was span out of control and the reality of budget figures, one has to look for the truth whilst the spin is spoon fed to the masses.

 

So lets not pretend that the news media is all nice and balanced because it isnt, its very right wing biased.

 

In terms of your comment about obesity etc. I can easily counter that by saying many NHS gp's are wrongly blaming health problems on smoking and obesity, as a result of that the claimed NHS expenditure on those conditions is exxagerated.

 

I can pin the rising amount of people ill in this country on many things that right wing governemnts would even refuse to accept as reasons as its against their ideologoy.

 

Chronic under funding of health services, the simple fact is if people are not treated and diagnosed properly they wont recover properly if at all. Labour seemed to try and tackle this but ended up wasting a lot of the NHS increased budget.

Chronic under funding of social security, whilst most of the population seems to think this is over funded, its the other way round. Unless someone on benefits has a another bill payer to rely on then generally speaking ESA/JSA on their own will not be enough to feed someone properly, they will suffer from malnutrition which obviously will make health conditions get worse. On top of this if they choose to keep the heating off then other health conditions may arise as well.

Poor working conditions combined with both issues above can lead to excessive stress/anxiety and its my view stress/anxiety are much bigger killers than smoking. Everyone I know who has died young are non smokers. Smoking is a stress reliever. (I dont smoke).

[Lilly_Monroe]

Absolutely, its a crime to admit being on benefits these days.

I have been told by my Work provider, that most people on ESA just sit on it and make NO attempt to find work.

Maybe they might just be ill, but the WP are not allowed to think like that - they have been programmed to get us into work whatever the cost to our health.

 

It is not going to improve Labour have said if elected they will not back track on anything.

 

Look at how all the services to help the poor and sick have been whittled down running on almost empty in some cases.

The Government do not want us seeking help.

And, no these are not just my views, I have friends who did work (a few still do) in areas of the NHS, Mind, and the likes.

 

I am 57 and I accept that I will not find work again especially with my illness.

My WP told me that she felt 'I had written myself off' - the truth is society has written me off.

I cannot help my age no more than I can help being ill.

I have friends far younger than me who held down good jobs until in their mid 40's and then they were sidelined.

So I know my chances/outlook are only as good as those that I can maintain/keep up.

 

I go from GP, my CPN, hospital, GP, etc etc, and on it goes - getting nowhere.

The will to keep bothering with it all gets lesser and lesser each time.

Multiply me by the countless other people in the same boat - we are being failed big time.

[rebel11]

Guys can I recommend we all take a time out, just to cool down, all our opinions will differ and we need to be tolerant of those opinions and treat each other with the utmost respect.

[worried33]

Absolutely, its a crime to admit being on benefits these days.

I have been told by my Work provider, that most people on ESA just sit on it and make NO attempt to find work.

Maybe they might just be ill, but the WP are not allowed to think like that - they have been programmed to get us into work whatever the cost to our health.

 

It is not going to improve Labour have said if elected they will not back track on anything.

 

Look at how all the services to help the poor and sick have been whittled down running on almost empty in some cases.

The Government do not want us seeking help.

And, no these are not just my views, I have friends who did work (a few still do) in areas of the NHS, Mind, and the likes.

 

A 2nd tier tribunal awarded someone SG on this exact basis, The first tier tribunal gave the person WRAG as they felt the DWP's claim that the person would recieve targeted and specialist help was valid, however the 2nd tier judge disagreed stating is lots of evidence that the job centers provide generic work related activity which is non targeted and that job center staff were not medically trained and as a result he had no choice but to award SG to the claimant.