NatWest - a few questions, and will they force me to use it to pay off my outstanding debts?

[lollipop2]

I've just had the forms from NatWest for PPI on loans going back as far as 10 years.

 

I'm a little confused as I was told (by NatWest) that there was a time limit of 6 years on making these claims.

 

 

There are a number of reasons why I believe I'm eligible to reclaim the PPII was told repeatedly that not taking PPI meant I was more likely to be refused a loan

 

My employment over that period changed between employed and self-employed,

the staff who completed my loan application knew this and didn't imform me that this would mean I might not be covered by the PPI

 

A staff member told me to always put 'employed' as my employment status

even though I changed between statuses & advised during one application I would soon be changing employment status

- they didn't mention any of the implications regarding self-employment

 

I have a number of debts outstanding with NatWest that I am paying in an informal debt management arrangement

as well as a number of debts with other providers.

 

My NatWest current account has been closed in so far as I can no longer use it.

 

However it is open in the sense that I can still use the sort code and acc number to make payments to pay off the overdraft

I had when I closed it to begin paying off my debts in an arrangement.

 

 

What I'd like to know is:

Can NatWest force me to use the money to pay debts I have with them or can I request they pay me by cheque?

 

(I have debts with other companies so I would be required to allocate the money equally between them if I was to use it on my debts)

 

Am I best giving all the reasons why I think I was mis-sold or just to stick to one

and keep my answers on the form brief (they're a bit of an essay currently!)

 

Thanks in advance.

[citizenB]

NatWest can offset any refund against debts you have with them. If they have sold/assigned those debts to 3rd parties, then they cannot.

 

It is my understanding they cannot use the 8% interest to offset.. so you should receive a cheque for that amount.

[dx100uk]

firstly

have you got ALL the statements and the agreements and have you done a spreadsheet to workout what you SHOULD get back?

 

but yes i'd 'focus' on one reason

 

also use the FOS questionnaire not their .

 

if you've not got all the details

i'd not send anything back yet.

 

there is NO time limit on PPI reclaims

dx

[lollipop2]

Ok that's a bit disappointing - I could really do with the money in cash! Oh well, still I suppose any reduction in my debts would be good.

 

I was going to send off the form without doing a SAR so I could get it resolved sooner but seeing as I may not even see the money, I may as well do it properly and request a SAR.

 

Can I check, is this the correct address for a full SAR from NatWest?

Data Protection Manager

Regulatory Risk

2nd Floor

Business House B

Goggarburn

PO Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH12 1HQ

 

Also, is there an online calculator or guide where I can figure out what I'd be owed?

 

Thanks very much for all your help.

[lollipop2]

Recently I had a letter from NatWest telling me I may be due a PPI refund.

I believe I will be as I was told I needed the PPI to get approved for credit.

I'm following the advice I received on this in the appropriate CAG forum to request my data to pursue the claim properly.

 

I'm currently unable to make any more than token payments anyway as I've had a temporary loss of work

(I'm self-employed - another reason I shouldn't have been sold PPI).

 

I've been given breathing space by my majority creditors and they've accepted my token payments all bar Capital One who I owe the least to. Typical!

 

When my period of breathing space comes to an end, I was wondering, would I be able to buy myself some more time by writing to NatWest

(they are my majority creditor) and saying I dispute the value of the debt and therefore, until I receive my data under the request, and my PPI claim is settled,

I will not be making any payments?

 

Or would I still have to come to an arrangement to pay whilst my claim was in process?

[dx100uk]

a PPI claim does not place an account into dispute.

 

dx

[lollipop2]

Surely it puts the value of the debt into dispute? I thought disputes could be over the value of the debt.

[dx100uk]

nope only a dispute if they hold no enforceable CCA

allows you to withhold payments.

 

dx

[lollipop2]

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

[lollipop2]

had a letter from NatWest late last year regarding PPI with a short form enclosed.

 

I did some reading and took the general consensus that it would be better to do a SAR

and fill out the full ombudsman forms in some detail to

have the best chance of my claim being taken seriously.

 

Fast forward to this week, my SAR file arrives

- a month after my SAR deadline had passed

- and all but one of the credit agreements is missing.

 

How can this be?

 

I wanted the credit agreements so I could remember how each of the loans was applied for

- in person or over the phone

- as although I think I can remember,

 

I've had so many loans I wanted to make sure I put the correct thing down for each one

where I'm making a PPI claim.

 

My questions are:

1. What can I do to find out how I applied for said loans & credit cards without the agreements or any notes?

2. Will NatWest be able to check if the info isn't included in my SAR file?

3. Am I right in thinking that no credit agreement no longer means a debt can be written off due to a court judgement that upheld the debt?

[lollipop2]

Also, I meant to ask - I'm finding it difficult to work out how much I'm owed because I had PPI on 3 loans, each one taken out and paying off the remainder of the previous. Also, I had PPI on a credit card which the PPI was added every month for.

[dx100uk]

three threads merged on same PPI issues.

 

the details of how to workout refinancing is in link 1 below.

 

credit cards are below too.

 

as for the agreements.

 

I doubt that doc would tell you anything about how they were taken out

there no remit for that under the CCA.

 

your best bet is looking at the comms log in the SAR.

 

if the loans are all in a chain

then you'll only need ONE FOS CQ for the chain

 

don't understand Q3?

 

dx

[lollipop2]

Thanks for your reply.

 

The credit card agreement I did have showed how the application had been made - via the internet.

 

My third question was that I'd read about people disputing and having their credit agreements cancelled

so they no longer had to pay when banks had no record of the credit agreement.

 

I wanted to know if it was possible to dispute my debt on the basis of there being no credit agreement.

 

Is it possible or has there been a court judgement to stop that practice?

 

What's a recon copy?

 

The loans that had PPI on were all pre-2007.

 

The loans I'm currently paying off (that don't have PPI on but were partly used to clear pre-2007 loans with PPI on) were taken out post-2007.

 

I've since been back through my SAR pack and found a letter (well hidden amongst my mortgage statements - wonder if that was deliberate) stating that:

 

'We have provided statements for your loan accounts, as after a thorough search of the NatWest Group data, we were unable to locate your loan agreements.

 

Our Group Records Management Policy allows for the retention of 6 years of personal data to be held. Complete statements will follow under a separate letter.'

 

One of the loans I'm still paying off was taken out just over 6 years ago. The other was under 6 years ago. Do I have any options here?

 

ETA:

Even if I can just dispute in order to buy myself some respite from repayments that would be good

as I've suffered a temporary setback income wise meaning

I'm only making token payments at the moment and the pressure is increasing from NatWest and other creditors.

 

My credit file is already mud so I don't see that I have much to lose there.

 

Sorry for the length of this post in advance,

I thought it might be helpful if I clarify my entire situation in one post as it's a little convoluted with all the different posts.

 

I currently owe around £35k to NatWest, RBS, Tesco, & Capital One in credit cards and loans.

I have been paying this in an informal DMP since 2011

when I had a change in circumstances and am unlikely to earn anywhere as much as I was back then.

 

One of the loans I have was taken out when my mortgage payments shot up due to NatWest pressuring me

(and lying in the sales meeting saying that they had inside info rates were about to shoot up)

into taking out a fixed rate remortgage just before the interest rates plummeted.

 

I was stuck for 3 years paying almost double I would have been had I just held on for the drop in interest rates.

I took the loan out partly just to survive and keep up with other debts.

 

In hindsight I know I should have just gone into a DMP but at the time I was a bit green.

I did make a complaint about this but NatWest wouldn't help at all and I believe it's too late to go to the Ombudsman now.

 

I'm currently making token £1 payments as I'm self employed and not earning at the moment (this is temporary - time of year more than anything).

Some of the debts I'm still paying directly to the creditors,

others have been passed to solicitors/DCA although not sold on

- just being collected on behalf of creditors.

 

I received a letter from NatWest late last year regarding PPI

- even though they had previously told me over the phone that it was too late to claim.

 

I did a SAR to find out which accounts had PPI on.

 

One of the PPI cases is a credit card I'm still paying off, for which they were able to provide the CCA with my signature.

I've submitted a PPI claim for that one.

 

The other accounts (all loans) that had PPI on have all been paid off (they were pretty old) although I am paying off loans now that were partly used to pay off the loans with PPI on.

 

Apart from the CCA provided for the one credit card I'm still paying off,

NatWest has admitted in writing that it cannot find any of the other CCAs for my other outstanding credit card or loan debts.

I owe the bulk of my debts to NatWest on the accounts they've lost the agreements for.

 

I've paid off approximately half of the debts since I took them out,

and having used a number of calculators, at a conservative estimate,

I should be due around £10-12,000 in PPI if they uphold my claim (for which I have good grounds).

 

Even before 2011 when I started the DMP, life was a real struggle

(largely due to the huge mortgage payments I felt I had no choice but to agree to on a remortgage)

and this has cause much misery in my personal life as far back as I can remember.

 

I've suffered from depression, insomnia, ill health, my marriage has suffered immensely.

I know I'm not unique, and there are lots of people suffering the same or worse but ultimately,

what I'd like to do, if at all possible, is negotiate with NatWest to bring my total outstanding debt down as low as possible

so I might be able to get the funds (possibly through selling my home which I think may have a small amount of equity now)

to make a lump sum payment and start rebuilding my life with a clean slate

(I realise my credit rating will be mud but it is anyway so nothing to lose there).

 

The PPI forms coming through and then the SAR file admitting lost CCAs has given me the motivation to try

and find a way out that means I won't be stuck making payments for the next 10-15 years

or having to go down an IVA or insolvency route.

 

So, my questions are:

- As NatWest can't find my CCAs,

 

I don't know how each PPI policy was sold to me (I know some were in person, others by phone

and I remember the conversations well but I can't remember which event was for which PPI policy).

 

Will my inability to state on the form whether it was sold in person/over the phone affect the credibility of my claim?

 

- Does the loss of my CCAs give me any room to negotiate the value of the debts,

based on the fact that in theory they could be unenforceable in court?

Not that I'd be able to cope with the stress of it going that far,

I just want to know if there's a possibility I could use it to negotiate

and also put a spanner in the works to give me some breathing space from payments and chasing for payment.

 

- If I'm going to do PPI claims and dispute the debt based on CCAs,

is there a recommended order I proceed with this?

 

Will one affect the potential outcome of the other?

Or should I simply be upfront with NatWest and go to them saying I want to negotiate based on these things?

 

Again,

sorry for the sheer length of the post

but I thought if people are to help me,

I should probably give as much info as possible.

 

Thanks in advance.

[dx100uk]

if your current loan is post apr 2007 that would in all effects be covered by them producing a recon

of the agreement

 

when is this debt in question from?

[dx100uk]

Thanks for your reply.

 

The credit card agreement I did have showed how the application had been made - via the internet.

 

My third question was that I'd read about people disputing and having their credit agreements cancelled

so they no longer had to pay when banks had no record of the credit agreement.

 

I wanted to know if it was possible to dispute my debt on the basis of there being no credit agreement.

 

Is it possible or has there been a court judgement to stop that practice?

 

not often if the debt is with the Original Creditor still.

 

 

What's a recon copy?

 

a reconstruction of what the agreement would have been

 

 

The loans that had PPI on were all pre-2007.

 

The loans I'm currently paying off (that don't have PPI on but were partly used to clear pre-2007 loans with PPI on) were taken out post-2007.

 

then you are still paying PPI today.

[lollipop2]

Ok thanks.

 

So in answer to my questions do I take it that:

1. I have no room to negotiate my position based on lost CCAs (for example, to negotiate a smaller payment if I pay off as a lump sum)?

2. I should just focus on getting my PPI claims sorted?

 

One other question I asked earlier that still hasn't been answered is:

 

3. I can remember the PPI sales conversations quite clearly,

I remember some were in person,

some over the phone,

however I can't remember which one took place in relation to which loans.

 

The PPI questionnaire asks whether the policy was sold in person or over the loan.

 

If I can't remember which policy was sold in person and which over the phone,

will this affect the credibility of my application?

[lollipop2]

Oh yes, I just remembered, one of the credit cards I'm paying off, that they lost the CCA for, was taken out pre-2007.

[dx100uk]

have you statements for all the loans?

 

as they are in a chain?

you wont have to worry about how/when/where PPI was sold

it would only be one FOS questionnaire for all the 'refinanced' loans chain.

 

well deal with that later.

 

1st port of call is spreadsheet!

 

read no.1. below

 

as for payments keep them going for now.

 

time for you to start reading around

 

this is a self help site too....

[lollipop2]

I've been doing a lot of reading, I just wanted to be absolutely certain before I went ahead with my PPI claim. Don't worry, I won't ask for help again.

[dx100uk]

thats not the issue..

 

you don't need al the agreements

 

get your spreadsheet done

 

lets get you moving rather than worrying about things that might never come up.

 

dx

[lollipop2]

Hi there, bit of an update and a question regarding NatWest.

 

I had numerous claims including one credit card claim.

 

The first one I sent off was the credit card and

 

NatWest upheld my complaint and made an offer.

 

It was lower than it should have been based on my calculations

so I wrote back with my calculations stating the amount it should be for.

 

today,

I had a call from the RBS PPI team regarding the loan PPI claims I'm making

asking me lots of questions that I had already answered on the forms.

 

The person who called was really rude, was being really unspecific

and kept flipping back and forth between forms then denied having the forms in front of him.

 

It was as though he was trying to make me unsure.

 

I kept telling him he needed to be specific and tell me which job he was asking for more information

about but he was just asking dates.

 

I told him he was asking me to go back over 10 years and off the top of my head,

I couldn't remember and that I had referred to old tax forms and paperwork

to complete the paperwork regarding self-employment and second jobs.

 

I told him that the main reason for my mis-selling complaint was

that I was told by NatWest staff members on numerous occasions

that I would be less likely to receive my loan if I didn't take out PPI

and that scaremongering was used.

 

I said that they should be upholding my complaint on that basis alone

without even needing to query my employment history.

He got really stroppy and then ended the call quite abruptly.

 

Is this allowed?

Anyone have experience with this?

 

It felt really harassing and rude to be honest,

like he really doubted what I had put on the forms.

[citizenB]

They do this in order to stall and no, I dont think they have any right to the information, they are just trying to obtain information that they could use to deny the claim.

 

If the caller was rude, then make a complaint to their Head office.

[ims21]

You shouldn't be conducting this type of thing over the phone. The bank will almost certainly try to lead you into saying something which gives them the wriggle room to avoid upholding your claim and thus keep your money.

 

If they call and have have questions tell them to put all of their queries in writing and that you will write back with the answers.

[lollipop2]

Thanks,

I normally would have done but had just woken up and am on painkillers as I'm recovering from a car accident

so wasn't really with it. I will make a complaint

- should I make it to the PPI address or the NatWest or RBS head office?

 

Every question he asked me,

I asked him which job he was asking me about

but he would only give me dates,

saying he didn't have the forms in front of him.

 

I told him well nor did I so he needed to find the forms and call me back if he wanted more info.

 

I told him he'd need to tell me which job he was referring to or I wouldn't be able to help.

 

I was able to tell him more about the self-employed jobs I had on top of my main full time employment

but there was nothing in any of these that would have meant them rejecting my claim

as my earnings in each of them would have likely meant a claim on the insurance

was rejected anyway

(based on my experience of trying to claim on one of the more recent policies).

 

I'm really annoyed,

they've already upheld one of my complaints over the same reason s

o they've put in writing that they believe I was told I needed the PPI in

order to get credit so surely they can't now turn around and deny it?

[lollipop2]

Just made a complaint by phone.

 

Refused to give me a complaint reference,

saying they had no idea what I was talking about

because they don't give out complaint references...

 

Told me that they absolutely aren't trying to catch me out

and that the questions are to help me.

 

I asked why they'd be asking me to repeat answers I'd already given them in writing.

 

They advised this must have been an admin error.

 

All very suspicious.

 

Should I wait for a response to my PPI claim

or go straight to the ombudsman with this?